Yesterday I got into a bit of a pissing contest here on the board (with one individual whose motives for being here I find extremely suspect). I apologize for boring everyone else. But just one more time, I’d like to try and make myself clear on this topic.

The debate is really not even worth having because at the end only one thing is sure to me, and that is: the Book of Mormon is fiction. It never happened. And so, Sorenson and all the other mo apologist out there can call horses tapirs, or tapirs horses. It doesn’t matter. They can argue about language fluidity from now until the cows come home, and it doesn’t matter. There is no copy of the BoM in its original language, whatever that was. Nothing can be cross checked and verified. (Say what you will about the Bible, but at least there are no shortages of lexicons that discuss and compare the original Greek and Hebrew of existing manuscripts with English versions.)

In my mind therefore, since nothing can be verified, all discussion about horses, tapir, metal swords, wheels, etc., is all a moot point. So, a horse must be a horse. But we all know of course that horses didn’t exist in the Americas during the BoM time. Along with a very long list of other items. Now I’m back at the beginning: the Book of Mormon is fiction.

Peace

They haven't found one of me either.

I got into a horse/tapir stoush a while back and pulled up some zoo veterinarian papers while at work. Tapir are nocturnal and their eyes are severely damaged with exposure to UV. They have foot pads (not any sort of hoof) which are so delicate that they can't be housed on concrete flooring. They cannot be domesticated or trained. They are absolutely unsuitable for any horse function.

On following up the references the apologists used, it turns out that an anthropologist reported seeing native children playing with and "riding" a pet tapir (much as kids might "ride" a pet dog). This tapir-riding situation was considered sufficient for our friends at the Maxwell Institute and FAIR to claim that Amerinds could ride tapir. Afterall they are not technically lying and who ever checks the original reference.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2013 11:09PM by spanner.

Just like those wheeled toys somehow became "evidences" of chariots.

And supposed evidence of chariots a thousand years older than these toys. It's as if we would use the existance of model railroads as evidence of trains in the middle ages. Makes no sense at all.

It just makes no sense. Why didn't Joseph Smith just translate the reformed Egyptian word as tapir instead of horse?

Apologist will argue that Joseph used the words he would have understood. This falls apart when you consider the other famous Book of Mormon animals, the Curelom and Cummin.

You just cannot mistake a tapir and horse, it's impossible. A tapir is the size of smallish adult pig, and built like one too. That some children might sit on one for fun makes no difference whatsoever. The local kids here, in lil' buckeroo rodeos, try to ride sheep, but that doesn't make sheep into mounts for adults.

Mildly grant that tapirs could possibly be horses and then have apologists explain metallurgy, a ridiculous population explosion, DNA, plagiarism from other sources in the Book of Mormon, and a complete lack of archaeological evidence, for starters.

I think we should just accept that they had chariots minus the wheels, and that these chariots were pulled by tapirs. Now try reading The Book of Mormon again. Envision King Lamoni being pulled around in a box without wheels by a large pig, ploughing up the road wherever he's dragged. Not quite the romantic vision it used to be, is it? And what is The Book of Mormon without the romantic imagery?

mopologist:
of course, 'adieu' wasn't written on the plates.. Joe boy was using a word which we would recognise and understand

but when he translated 'Horse', he actually meant tapir

I've seen tapirs at the zoo, and it's hilarious that these Mormon apologists expect people to believe that King Lamoni's stables were housing battle tapirs. Lay all the facts next to each other, and it's screaming funny. Except that BYU is my alma mater, and I list my degree from there on my resume. That's not so funny.

Maybe my eyes glossed over on alot of BOM stuff. So the Aztecs and Incas did not have wheels? No chariots, no wheels, right?

Re politicaljunkie: was the word 'tapir' in use during Joe's time?

I'll bet the word 'horse' was!

There is horse/tapir example to illustrate what JS got wrong about Mesoamerica. But an equally compelling and often overlooked example is all of the flora and fauna of ancient America that is not even mentioned once in the Book of Mormon.

The foods and wildlife that would have been consumed daily and that would have been key to the survival of any people that lived in Mesoamerica - not a word of it spoken in the BOM.

But yes, you are right, it is moot because the BOM is a work of fiction.

LOL!

Now with that in mind, watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxcMwRdNuTk

LOVE THE MENTAL IMAGE OF A TAPAR PULLING A WHEELLESS BOX W/SOMEGUY IN IT!!LOLOLOL. The things is IF there ever was a reformed egyption or a mixture of hebrew and egyption, there would have been a word or symbol for horse (we know they had horses) & probably a word or symbol for a pig like animal. IF JS was translating & IF GOD was helping why wouldnt God say NO thats nnot a horse, thats a pigglike animal. But Ofcourse that opens up the whole tapar drawn chariot thing.Snicker ;-)

King Lamoni: Tapir-Back Rider!

(stolen, but hey, that's what old Joe did his whole life)

You made me laugh out loud, and I'm at the office, suppose to be working. ;)

LOL!

Not sure if you intended it, but I hear that to the tune of the Beatles "Paperback Writer"

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,587821,587821#msg-587821

When you see one in person, you know it's a fraud.

Chariot races aside, can you picture an episode of "Mr.Ed" filmed with a tapir? And no one notices the switch because they are so much alike?

A horse is a horse of course, of course, and no one can talk to a horse of course, unless it's Mr. Tapir, of course, who speaks perfect reformed Egyptian, of course!

What a load of tapir$#!&. It's just embarrassingly stupid.

you mean Senor Eduardo, El Tapir Hablar.