Nobody on RFM is talking about the one scenario that LDS Inc. DOES NOT WANT TO FACE – and to my knowledge, it is the one issue that TSCC has NOT made any public comments about. Please chime in if I am misinformed.

The scenario:

What to do with two California gay TBM men who live in separate wards. The local Priesthood leaders know each TBMer is gay. Each is in full fellowship. Our twosome get a civil marriage from the State of California (when it is legal again), and show up together in their new home ward as a married couple. One of the gay men then has his membership records transferred into the ward where both men now reside and live together.

What’s going to happen? I SERIOUSLY do not know what TSCC’s protocol will be.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2013 03:07PM by jiminycricket.

Canada has had marriage equality in Ontario and Quebec for 10 years. The rest of Canada, including Alberta, since 2005.

I'd like to see the scenario for a California case seriously debated.

Just seems an unlikely scenario (specifically a gay, married couple who wish to remain associated with the church). There was a period of time when same-sex marriage was legal in California (a small window prior to Prop 8) and this issue never publicly came up (that I'm aware of).

If the scenario did happen and it was public knowledge in the ward then I imagine the couple would be disfellowed or excommunicated based on sex outside of (church-sanctioned) marriage.

Excommunication because according to the church they will be living in sin without remorse or repentance.

Of course, your scenario does not include the possibility that the dudes are celibate, but that's just silly..

This is the Mormon challenge with having begun to acknowledge that homosexuality is not a choice, but an assignment that should not be acted upon because sex is not allowed outside of marriage.

You can be a heterosexual couple, civilly married, in good standing in the LDS church.

Does it become bigotry if you cannot be a homosexual couple, civilly married, in good standing in the LDS church. Does this become a matter of constitution. To be determined. I don't think Americans want to force Mormons to like gays, but I do think Americans would prefer not to sponsor institutional bigotry, such as is clearly found in the Mormon church. They hate sinners, like well everyone that isn't like them.

Bigotry isn't unconstitutional, only laws enforcing it. Religions will continue to hold racism/sexism/homophobic as shining principles.

1978, tax issues! Corporations don't like tax issues.

This is a common misconception at RFM, and I really can't figure out why. It's been debunked repeatedly.

The 1978 blacks-in-the-priesthood decision had NOTHING to do with any threat to the church's tax-exempt status. The government *cannot* interfere in any church's teachings or internal governance procedures. Non-discrimination laws also cannot be applied to ordination of clergy. The government is specifically prohibited from interfering in these matters, end of story.

The black priesthood ban was perfectly legal as a result. Our government is not in the business of passing judgment on religious teachings, which is exactly what you would expect when there is a wall of separation between church and state.

So, it was God telling SWK to give the priesthood to blacks without changing doctrine in your opinion.

1890

Doesn't our government pass judgement on polygamists.

I don misunderstand anything. Mormonism is a fringe culture that metasticized out of Utah, post WWII. Mainstreamed for 6 decades and now with its' pants around its' ankles due to the Internet is about to get stuffed back into the box shaped like Utah.

Do I misunderstand that there are significantly less than six million Mormons in the United States, like 2 to 3 million?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2013 08:18PM by gentlestrength.

Plus what if the new couple are caregivers for children from previous marriages, as in a family?

Likely excommunication for having gay sex, regardless of marital status.

They have been fighting gay marriage because they don't want to be called bigots. They just "support traditional marriage" and "no sex outside marriage".

Now that California, where over 1 million Mormons live, has gay marriage, they have painted themselves into a corner. Excommunicate gays and the press will be all over them. Don't and they have lost control.

Of course they might be exed for disobeying the grand high a-holes.

Hmm... Why a gay couple would want to be LDS is beyond me.But, Knowing the churches aversion to bad pr. & tLegal problems. Id say they'd SUCK IT UP & say nothing. but I wouldnt be surprized if theyd be shunned socially & w/callings. THE BIGGER QUESTION WOULD BE IF THEY WOULD LEGALLY Be requird to do Temlpe marrage??? EHH! EHH?

What happens in other states that allow gay marriage? What's church policy for handling them there?

The handbook says this about "Same-Gender Marriages:"

"As a doctrinal principle, based on the scriptures, the Church affirms that marriage between a man and a woman is essential to the Creator's plan for the eternal destiny of His children.
Sexual relations re proper only between a man and a woman who are legally and lawfully wedded as husband and wife. Any other sexual relations, including those between persons of the same gender, are sinful and undermine the divinely created institution of the family. The Church accordingly affirms defining marriage as the legal and lawful union between a man and a woman."

So, it looks like if said married couple is having sex, they are still breaking the law of chastity and not in good standing with the church regardless of their marriage.

What if your married and celibate, like mom and dad are now. Would it be any different than having a roommate? Would the church break up your family if you both had kids.

What if both men have children living with them who are sealed to them? How do you teach gay hate to those kids? How do you explain this family to the other kids? Kids won't just ignore it.

Do the men show uo for father and son events? Good thing there are seldom mother and son events, eh?

This is a nightmare for leaders. These people arent going away and will become more accepted in the community. And some will be Mormon.

Greet them with an holy kiss!

"How will California Priesthood Leaders react toward a Gay married couple?"

Perhaps the same way priesthood leaders reacted everywhere else gay marriage is legal? It's not like California is the first place to get gay marriage.