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Posted by: Haunted Wasatch ( )
Date: June 26, 2013 05:06PM

Have you guys read this?

I can't believe how this guy just rationalizes this stuff.

According to him:

1. No where in the BoM (scripture body) does it state that lamanites are the principal ancestors of American Indians even though THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT WE WERE TAUGHT FOR DECADES. That is why we had the change in the preface and not George Murphy and Simon Southerton.

2. Hey other prophets in the Bible did some bad things so Joe Smith's serial adultery, magic hat trick, and killing guys at Carthage jail was ok because the D&C says heaven calls the weak and vain things of the earth so you see Brigham Young's heresy was okay because Abraham lied about Sarah being his wife. Prophets will never teach us anything soul destroying but they can advocate murder of audulterors, apostates, and offspring of interacial couples as along as it is not soul destroying.

They are allowed to err even though they are supposed to be prophets seers and revelators.

My favorite quote: "Air brushing our prophets, past or present, is a wrenching of the scriptural record and a form of idolatry." Really? After all the airbrushing the Morg has done for Joe and Brigham?

oh and dig this:

John Taylor said, “There were men in those dark ages who could commune with God, and who, by the power of faith, could draw aside the curtain of eternity and gaze upon the invisible world. . . There were men who could gaze upon the face of God, have the ministering of angels, and unfold the future destinies of the world. If those were dark ages I pray God to give me a little darkness.”

So much for Joe being told that all religions were an abomination before God.

Of course no mention of the Book of Abraham or magic rock in a hat or all the rest of the problems with correlation, freemasonry, science and evolution.

As long as our faith is strengthened by being tried.

I can't believe this guy buys his own tripe. Just the oily feeling of repeatedly being lied to in this. Yeah my testimony was strengthened alright, strengthened that the "gospel" is an indefensible pile of sick lies designed to keep the tithing flowing.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2013 05:07PM by morgrefugee.

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Posted by: lucky ( )
Date: June 26, 2013 05:11PM

Funny thing...... using this same MORmON *logic* it would be entirely acceptable if some MORmON ASSpostHOLE comes over to Given's house and bangs his wife until she cant walk and then hacks off his head with a sword.

Its all part of the MORmON gospel in action !!!!

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Posted by: templeendumbed ( )
Date: June 26, 2013 05:47PM

What mystifies me most about this douche's explanation is that if prophets cannot teach any soul destroying doctrine, why does churchco. react so strenuously against members that teach or live these doctrines.

If polygamy is not soul destroying, why not invite all the fundamentalists back as they are? What is the big deal if this week's EQ lesson is on the Adam God theory? If I'm at the temple and I want to continue to pantomime slashing my throat, chest, and stomach, just let me do it. I will be quick and not hold up the service.

If people revert to previous teachings/practices or incorporate modern PR adjustments what does it matter as long as it was once taught by a churchco president it is not soul destroying. if these teachings aren't soul destroying why can they get you ex'ed fom one churco. president to the next?

Maybe this is where cult control and pr meet?

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Posted by: 8thgeneration ( )
Date: June 26, 2013 05:47PM

I often tell my TBM brothers that if God was okay with all the shitty things joseph smith did, then I am probably going to be okay in the eternities with the piddly shit I do.

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Posted by: marriedtoexmo ( )
Date: June 26, 2013 06:28PM

Nice does he respond to that?

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Posted by: snowball ( )
Date: June 27, 2013 02:09PM

Brother Givens must not be putting his 15 minutes a day reading the actual text (RE: point #1). I would admonish Brother Givens to read the scriptures.

Nephi drones on ad nauseam about how this record will benefit the remnant of his brethren's seed. If not the Native Americans--who are these people? If they are not identifiable, then was Nephi giving a false prophecy?

And of course, he would ignore the stream of latter-day prophets identifying native Americans as the remnant of the Lamanites.

On to point #2.

It's funny how in apologist land different rules seem to apply. According to most mission presidents, missionaries who are the slightest bit disobedient should fear that the spirit will not accompany them on their travels. As a consequence, the message they convey will not be as powerful, and souls lost.

And yet, we see that the prophets of God are allowed to do things that are immensely rotten, and it does not affect their ability to receive revelation in the slightest. Nor should this have any impact on our ability to gain a testimony of their words.

Isn't it wonderful, isn't it glorious!?!

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Posted by: mrtranquility ( )
Date: June 27, 2013 03:29PM

Is best described as same sh!t, different day.

Givens is probably more polished and likable, than DCP, so from that standpoint it's a step up for Team Mormon. However, they are neck and neck with the quality of their apologetics.

What LDS, Inc. doesn't get is that the problem is with the content itself and not its mode of delivery.

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Posted by: Jesus Smith ( )
Date: June 27, 2013 03:39PM

Mormonthink did a summary of a fireside he gave to help quell doubts. The audio was recorded and uploaded to archive, link at the end of this one:

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Posted by: Chicken N. Backpacks ( )
Date: June 27, 2013 04:33PM

As to point #1, i can't believe that first Nephi doesn't count as proof that america was supposed to be ONLY for Lehi, Nephi, and his knucklehead brothers because GOD PLANNED IT THAT WAY!! It says right there in the frikkin' text!!

Is there any possible way it could be interpreted any other way!?

Sory for ranting, but when someone points at a Ford and says: "Oh, no, that's a Chevy.", I get really perturbed.

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