Why bother with gold plates at all? Why not show JS what happened via a vision, as for other revelations? Why not carve the BOM into a stone as for the 10 commandments? Why couldn't god get his secretary to type it up and leave it in JS's inbox?
The lard works in mysterious ways (the default answer when god does something that had no logical explanation).
Somehow it "proves" the book of Mormon. "See? We got 8 witnesses, all signed in David Whitmer's handwriting! The Book of Mormon is TRUE!" Or something like that. Who knows what lurks in the mind of a believing Mormon.
I'll confess. The witnesses were a valuable part of keeping the whole "Moroni took the plates" thing on the shelf in my TBM mind. Yeah, the plates are gone but look at all of these highly respectable (yeah, right) men that saw the plates (with some even seeing an angel). Even better, even as they were being buffeted by Satan, none of them ever denied their testimonies of seeing the plates. How amazing is that?!
Obviously, there are massive problems with the witnesses. But from my TBM standpoint, the witnesses were very important.
I agree. The witnesses were a very important part of making a fictional story plausible. While the non-mormons I knew focussed on the ridiculous notion that Joseph Smith had gold plates, I focussed on the fact that so many witnesses (allegedly) saw the gold plates, therefore he must have had them no matter how ridiculous it sounded.
The whole story of the 3 witnesses is just weird before you even get into the issue of "seeing" things with their "spiritual eyes" or "visions."
First of all, why would Joseph Smith take only close friends who already believed his story? If he was looking to give his work credibility, why not show the plates to well-respected skeptics?
Secondly, why go out into the woods and pray for a miraculous appearance of the plates? If the plates really were a real, physical object, which JS was currently translating from, why did he not simply walk them into his study, open the box where he kept them, and present the plates to the witnesses?
Thirdly, why did the angel refuse to show them to Martin Harris at first? What on earth did this accomplish, apart from shaming him for his lack of "faith" for not being able to "see" what the others claimed to have "seen?" Wouldn't this naturally introduce an "Emperor's New Clothes" situation for Harris? After all, all his friends could see the clothes, he better pretend like he could as well, or they'd all think he was not fit for his post!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2013 01:57PM by nickname.
Probably some well-worn ground here. But I'll say it anyway. The witnesses—the “three” and the “eight”—are entirely suspect even with the most superficial knowledge of the circumstances involved. Not many lawyers—prosecutor or defense—would want to put any of these guys on the stand, just based on their family ties.
THE THREE Oliver Cowdery—helped “translate” the book, so if there was a scam going on (and of course, I believe there was) the odds are he was "in on it." Also excommunicated… would have been happy to be done with Mormonism if his involvement hadn’t so tainted his reputation. If Smith thought so little of him as to ex him, why would he be a good witness?
David Whitmer—his claiming to have visions with Smith and Cowdery…basically fits the “in on the scam” profile.
Martin Harris—helped “translate” (though I care say nowhere near as effectively as Cowdery). Again, fits the “in on the scam” profile.
THE EIGHT Samuel and Hyrum Smith: Brothers. Close family not usually seen as reliable witnesses.
Joseph Smith Sr. Close family…JS’s daddy… enjoyed stature based on the scam.
Christian, John, Jacob and Peter Whitmer—basically close relatives of one of the Co-Conspirators…sorry, I mean the three…
Hiram Page—David Whitmer’s brother-in-law. Again, close family.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2013 02:02PM by stillburned.
The "witnesses" are the cornerstone of the church scam. Why would 8+3 really nice guys make it up!? therefore it must be true. There is not need for you to see the plates, just to beleive these are nice guys, the proxy witness scam.
This becomes the standard for establishing facts for the rest of history. If you think about it, JS realized that they was not way anyone was going to be giving money or lifting their dresses if there was just his questionable character. But using the oldest salesman trick in the book (mananger said, this is the industry standard, everyone else knows...)then he had someting. This mind trick is used to this day as the missionaries knock on doors or your facebook wall...why would we lie? we are not seeling anything, in fact we voluntered, we love you, we will clean your yard, visit you we are super nice people...therefore you wont question our outrageous claims.