Seems there is such a huge push to get married these days. It really is something that is quite religious. Being atheist, I really don't find the idea of marriage appealing in any sense.

Seems marriage should just go away entirely unless there are kids involved. Then, I wouldn't call it marriage, rather it would be a legal exercise to take care of the kids until they are 18. Then the "marriage" is final and you are free to go.

I could agree with you if there were no legal and financial benefits involved in being married.

I know a gay couple who will not be getting married. They like their relationship just the way it is.

I also know straight couples who choose not to marry.

The point is that the choice should belong to the couple not to the state.

Marriage IS a legal exercise, it is not a religious event.

Marriage has existed in all societies, in one form or another, as a legal way to recognise a union.

If you want to celebrate a major life event with the superstition of your choice, fine.... but, generally, religion should just keep the hell out of marriage

I don't get what the big deal is with voting or voting enfranchisement.

It's all ideological. I don't follow politics. I don't feel my vote is worth anything. It's all corrupt, anyway.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2013 06:41AM by lastofthewine.

I get why Americans are frustrated with their political system, since corporate money and gerrymandering keep the voters from getting the government they want. Surrendering just means you let them win. You still have to pay taxes and live in this country, so giving up isn't an option.

Marriage is a racket to get single people with no kids to subsidize the people who get married and have kids.

+ 1,000,000

Marriage and the state need a divorce. I'm all for marriage with no legal implications. Why should I, a single child free taxpayer, have to subsidize someone else's tax breaks for marriage and kids?

Marriage is about two people joining their lives. Because religion and state were once married, churches seem to think they have a say in marriage.

Marriage is a civil affair that religion has tried to co-opt to control families. You can easily get married without a church, but your marriage has no legal standing without the government.

Actually, I find the most important aspect of marriage to be an emotional one. I find it much easier to move through this life with dh at my side -- always supporting me, always there for me. A year ago, I was diagnosed with a serious, life threatening illness. It's hard to describe the relief I felt knowing dh was there with me every step of the way through some difficult surgeries and treatments.

My marriage has made my life infinitely more fulfilling. I wish the same for all couples -- straight and gay.

simplifies insurance benefits, property rights, inheritance and power of attorney.

A couple could sign a dozen documents to get each individual benefit or they could sign one - a marriage license - that confers all those benefits.

I guess I am still trying to figure out why homosexuals want to be married...to me it defies all logic. I must say though, homosexuality is not logical in the sense of nature, so there it is...

orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess I am still trying to figure out why
> homosexuals want to be married...to me it defies
> all logic. I must say though, homosexuality is
> not logical in the sense of nature, so there it
> is...


Actually same sex attraction happens all the time in nature. Where have you been? I wouldn't flaunt the idea that you are so incapable of empathy that you cant understand why people want to get married. Of course that is probably why you aren't married.

Same sex attraction in nature? Yes, I know that rabbits will try to have sex with anything that moves because of the overpowering urge they get from certain parts of their brain. That doesn't mean that they will have offspring from trying to hump my leg. The point of male and female in nature is offspring, not necessarily an uncontrollable urge to orgasm with the same sex or inanimate objects that might be the closer to the animal.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2013 12:38PM by orange.

Including mating for life.

Black and white thinking is prevalent in homophobes, I've noticed.

orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Same sex attraction in nature? Yes, I know that
> rabbits will try to have sex with anything that
> moves because of the overpowering urge they get
> from certain parts of their brain. That doesn't
> mean that they will have offspring from trying to
> hump my leg. The point of male and female in
> nature is offspring, not necessarily an
> uncontrollable urge to orgasm with the same sex or
> inanimate objects that might be the closer to the
> animal.

So YOU know the "point" of nature? Every bit of it? Why, aren't you speshul. Two animals of the same sex also have relationships. If nature is what it is, then obviously same sex attraction is part of it. please don't embarrass yourself further with your narcissism and lack of knowledge.

Yep my naked trolls were identical anatomically. One had purple hair and one had orange hair. Their private bits were the same, so they must have been the same sex.

It's also pretty damn offensive.

1500 species of animals have members that exhibit homosexual behavior.

Only 1 specie of animal is known to show aversion (bigotry) to homosexual behavior.

That should tell everyone, even orange, what is and what is not natural.

There is nothing in the link that really helps me understand why homosexual marriage should be necessary.

To me it is a slippery slope that another person may argue that their pet provides all the same benefits as a human. Polygamy, polyandry and so on also seems to become legitimized if we want to keep going down the rabbit hole.

Sorry, if you don't see anything in that article that shows why gays would want to get married, then you did not read the article or you want to be willfully ignorant.

Yes, I see why there are financial reasons a homosexual wants to get married.

If that is it, then governments just need to make being single just as financially beneficial as being married.

This is why I believe marriage is really only for raising children or trying to become pregnant and raising children even if no children ever come about due to infertility.

I think the idea of trying to legitimize homosexual marriage is really short sighted and doesn't tackle the real problem. Homosexuality is very difficult to live when it is obvious humans are evolutionarily male and female. Homosexuals in nature is a dead end when it comes to procreation, but the individual can help society in many other ways. Those ways are similar to a heterosexual single person.

Humans are not "evolutionarily male and female" -- in fact, that's just utter nonsense. Humans (and other animals) are male, female, intersexed, male externally and female internally and vice versa and even female on the inside and genetically male. Please, take your stupidity elsewhere -- preferably to an institute of higher learning where you can be introduced to critical thinking skills and how to avoid logical fallacies.

orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, I see why there are financial reasons a
> homosexual wants to get married.
>
> If that is it, then governments just need to make
> being single just as financially beneficial as
> being married.

What ever happened to "small government"? Seriously, why not do the SIMPLE thing and call it all marriage rather than have two sets of identical laws just so bigots like you don't have to call what gays have marriage?

Never mind that the idea of separate but equal does not work.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2013 12:53PM by orange.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2013 12:54PM by orange.

No point in going further with you -- you just want to force your will on other people and are having a hissy fit (albeit quietly) because you don't get to hit people with your religious stick anymore.

You started this off by saying "Seems marriage should just go away entirely unless there are kids involved. Then, I wouldn't call it marriage, rather it would be a legal exercise to take care of the kids until they are 18. Then the "marriage" is final and you are free to go."

So apparently, you at least see a need to have a system in place that provides protection for the children.

Now, you realize that there are a lot of gay couples that have children, right? Shouldn't those children be protected too? Or are you prefectly happy with second class status for them?

Not to mention next of kin rights and the like.

Marriage is not a "religious" construct no matter how many religionists try to claim it is. It has historically always been about the legalities of forming a unit out of disparate units.

Marriage lets you sponsor a foreign partner to live in the US, lets you have rights to keep any children belonging to the other when one of you dies, lets you keep all belongings and assets of the other when one of you die, gives you hospital visitation rights to your other, and around a thousand other rights that married people take for granted. Speaking of which, has anyone come across a list of those rights that is listed out in a simple readable form? The only list I've seen is long because it spells out everything. I guess I am looking for something with just the bullet points. Marriage law for dummies. Also I can point out that if your not married you are like roommates, As roommates you share a lot of stuff. Well if your roommate dies the burden in on you to prove that your stuff is yours, otherwise family could take it away, or worse the government. You may have property or financial stuff you share that could be held back or taken by government. Shure you write out contracts to protect that stuff, but marriage does a lot of that and is easier to defend unlike other agreements, which brings in the lawyers. I don't think anyone has given much thought about protecting the roommate situation, probably because they are thought as temporary. I guess common law gives some protections, but even that only applies to heterosexuals.

Orange wants to equate "marriage" to "reproduction" and won't be swayed by reality. And I think MJ's link up above might have been to a source of the many benefits of legal marriage. :)

I am simply an atheist evolutionary biologist. I understand the need for humans to believe they are normal in society. Marriage is a cultural ideal and homosexuals want that normality even if it is illogical in nature.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2013 12:55PM by orange.

In fact, you sound just like the average religious nut who is trying to pretend that religion isn't a factor. And you CLEARLY do not understand evolution (or science) or you'd have already read the many papers on the evolutionary advantages to having paired homosexuals in a community. So, sorry, not buying it but it was a nice try at appeal to authority. You don't have the critical thinking or logic skills to convince me you care about science at all.

He also claims to be a biologist. With the lack of knowledge shown, I don't believe that claim either.

orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am simply an atheist evolutionary biologist.

And you don't know about homosexuality in nature? I call bull shit.

> I
> understand the need for humans to believe they are
> normal in society. Marriage is a cultural ideal
> and homosexuals want that normality even if it is
> illogical in nature.

Again, bull shit. Most REAL biologists are aware that homosexuality is and always has been a part of nature.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2013 12:59PM by MJ.

Don't they realize it makes their deities look repulsive?

orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am simply an atheist evolutionary biologist. I
> understand the need for humans to believe they are
> normal in society. Marriage is a cultural ideal
> and homosexuals want that normality even if it is
> illogical in nature.


Oh jesus christ, enough already. You are an idiot and no will date you, much less marry you. Go away and play video games under your bridge.