This is from a seventeen year old's post urging us to move on--

Get Over It, Exmos, Dream Big! Act Big!

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,940677


So you want to be a researcher?

Doesn't that mean you would approach your theory without assumptions?

How about the assumption that you, an individual so young he has never even lived alone, can provide helpful advice for people who have been learning life's toughest lessons FOR DECADES.

There are people on this board who have experienced the psychological equivalent of Auschwitz.

You do not know what you don't know on the emotional live. I am sure you understand the vast body of knowledge unknown to you on the intellectual level or you wouldn't even go to college. You would just assume that your tinkering with computers and reading on the internet plus your high IQ has given you all that you need to be competitive in the technical workplace.

You wouldn't presume to tell someone with a broken computer

"FIX IT! The world of the internet is out there waiting for you!

Because it's obvious that if they could, they would. They are not qualified to diagnose and fix a computer, but you are because that's your passion and you've studied it.

It seems very easy to you at your point in life to discard Mormonism without a backward glance, figuratively dusting yourself off. It's the EASY button from Staples! That wasn't hard at all--and look at these adults moaning and groaning.

Get over it, exmos, here is my story, just look at me for inspiration!

Due to your youth, you have an undeveloped EQ (Emotional Quotient). You don't recognize the inappropriateness of your comment in this forum. Let me give you a piece of advice from someone who worked as headhunter in Silicon Valley:

Most smart computer savants never achieve a fraction of what they could because they don't understand one fundamental truth:

No one succeeds alone. The day of the Lone Ranger is over.

The first thing Linus Torvalds after changing out of his bathrobe and coming out of his bedroom, where he had been for eight years, was to invite others to participate in keeping his brainchild, his Linux OS current and relevant.

You will emerge from your foreign college and, chances are, you will be picked up by a startup, or form one. You will work as a member of a team.

This is where you will need to be proficient in your social skills. You will need to share your vision, your passion, your solutions and ideas with others because without the buy-in of your superiors, venture capitalists, peers, partners, your ideas will not be implemented.

Or, worse yet, (and I have seen this), your ideas will be recognized BUT NOBODY WANTS TO WORK WITH OR AROUND YOU. Because you give off arrogance and are disrespect. At seventeen, you aren't really receiving the negative feedback this would produce if you were an adult, because immature behavior is excused in the immature.

There is slack given in consideration of the youthful hormonal arrogance that allows a young man to kick off into a scary and dangerous world. You are being given that slack right here, right now. And you may not realize it. You may think that you will go forward in life completely unaffected by being cult imprinted and brainwashed for your entire life.

Not realistic, my friend. Rain falls on the evil and the good alike.

The smartest thing you can do, and it just may not be possible, is to recognize that your contempt for adults is hormonal and temporary, given to you by nature to help you leave the nest. Without it we would all still be living with loving parents.

Let's go with the left side of your brain with reality based on actual probabilities. Is it more or less likely that a person who has lived through a cult childhood (only) will have a helpful perspective for someone who has suffered through childhood, adulthood, middle age (including leadership) as a Mormon?

Who is more likely to teach you something you don't know? A person your age or a person twice your age?

Isn't it more likely that the thousands of people looking at this board on a daily basis are experiencing some need for support? Perhaps leaving Mormonism and choosing to move on could be harder than you think? The evidence of the popularity and longevity of this board would suggest that a diverse group leaving Mormonism experience adjustment problems which are unique to those leaving Mormonism. And they receive something here.

You might ask what that might be instead of telling people you don't know to stop supporting one another and just move on.

A less cocky person might have curiosity about that.

For example a childhood of cult brainwashing might create lifelong psychological problems that could be addressed and mistakes avoided....and that the people here could actually help you be aware of the symptoms and check those tendencies if you see them popping up. We could tell you some things you don't know about your future as an exmormon in a family of Mormons.

Unfortunately, you are ignorant of what you are ignorant of.

I had nine children. Half of them were male and raised in Mormonism. The other half were not. The males raised in Mormonism have unique problems, which they attribute to a Mormon childhood. They were all your age or younger when I left Mormonism. Now one is dead, the other missing, a third insane and a fourth is an alcoholic.

But none of that could happen to you, because you Dream Big. They had big dreams too, I can assure you, and Mormon-thinking crippled those dreams.

If you were humble and came here asking for information on how your mental cult indoctrination might hamper you in the future, and what to do to overcome it and avoid pitfalls, many of us could tell you.

But, since you are here to inspire us, I'll just thank you for the advice that I should just "Get over it."

Best of luck


Anagrammy

PS. Here's some ideas for your next screen name-- "havemorelight"

I'm surprised he wasn't flamed into oblivion because of his comments. I was expecting a lot more ganging up on him.

You think I came to this forum to bully you. I'm sorry if my message looks like bullying. Let me clarify: my message was really heartfelt and written with honesty. Maybe I wasn't making the right word choice ir maybe I didn't say the right stuff. No offensiveness was intended.

You say my message was inappropriate.

But, you get my point, right?

Can we just rewind?

I'm getting the impression that you have confidently stuck your foot right in your mouth because, like many young people, you think you know what you're talking about.

Right now I'm thinking of a 17 year old I knew many years ago who quite confidently told me that God wanted to heal me from depression if I would just have the faith of a mustard seed to let him. He ended up with bi-polar disorder less than a year later which gave him considerably more understanding of what an ass (no matter how well-intentioned) he'd been.

Maybe I'm wrong -- I'll read the original thread as soon as I find it -- but you might want to consider asking questions (respectfully) and carefully contemplating the answers before giving suggestions to adults who have been through hell and back.

Looks like I'm a bigot/asshole/etc.?

I didn't post that message because "I know what I'm talking about". It just pisses me off that the church ruins lives and depresses people into thinking all is over, and I'm somehow trying to motivate people out of this crap and trying to help them move on.
And yeah, I told a story of my life and how I'm trying to get out of the church. I'm not saying it's the best story or that I have too much experience, but that's what I can contribute.

So what do you think is a better way to do this?

We understand that you are young, and therefore inexperienced. Many people were patient with you and some gave you the sort of verbal "fwap" that a mother or father cat would give to a kitten who is being too bold and annoying.

The phrase, "get over it" can come across as very cold and callous -- especially from a teenager who has little experience of the world.

We are simply trying to tell you that we were young once too. We understand your point of view. The world is new to you, it is your oyster, and all things are possible. This is an entirely normal point of view for your age.

But you have yet to be tested. Come back to us when your company lays you off and you have no clue about how you will pay your mortgage. Come back to us when your parents either cut you off entirely or pester you to death about getting your child baptized. Please realize that how you think and feel at present *is not always how you will think and feel*.

You are not finished growing and developing as a person. *You have just started.* That is what people are trying to tell you.

I love your willingness to strike off and make a new life for yourself. I hope that you have a wonderful journey. Just remember that a little humility goes a long way. ;)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2013 06:57PM by summer.

Perfectly stated, summer. I also like anagrammy's allusion to psychological Auschwitz. Having been there myself on account of the Church--twice--I'm not so naive as I once was (although I still have much to learn--I am reminded of this day by day).

I wish we were all your age, kid, with the knowledge and perspective you have now. So many of us would have made crucial decisions dramatically differently had we known then what we know now (both about the "Church" and life generally) but will never have that opportunity (see "Physics"). So for those of us who have to live with our regrets, "Get over it!" is remarkably insensitive and outrageously glib.

You will have your own regrets someday, too, doubtless. Perhaps then you will have more compassion. You should know by now that wishing or willing doesn't make something so. Life is more complicated than that and there are real, practical barriers that are simply unsurmountable no matter what. That's the hard reality of life. It really isn't anybody's oyster after all... While I appreciate your attempt to jostle some of us from perceived complacency or whatever, artificially Pollyannish messages are ultimately unwelcome and unhelpful. You should take your own advice, basically, because you are in a position to put it to substantial use.

you came off as being a big mouth know-it-all teenager.

You can take my advice or not, it's certainly in your hands. Just realize that if you are 17 years old then you certainly don't have the experience or wisdom you think you have. Intelligence is something quite different than wisdom.

Simply due to the phrase "get over it."

This simplistic mantra is a phrase that drips with ignorance towards understanding grief and recovery.

It may help when you fall down running as a kid or when your first crush dumps you - but it's not so useful for the things that leave emotional scars.

Stick around the board and listen for a while. You'll learn a lot.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,939455,939455#msg-939455



And careful, you don't want to come across as being too arrogant, the peasants may revolt if they catch a whiff of your hubris:

http://www.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/cast-and-crew/index.html#/game-of-thrones/cast-and-crew/joffrey-baratheon/index.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2013 06:38PM by schlock.

Seems you're just posing as one of us for your missionary project. I'll warn you. There have been deconversions from what you may be doing. You are in dangerous territory for your testimony.

Yeah, we could rewind. Or you could get over it.

See? Using harsh language like that is no way to effectively get your point across. Everyone on this board has gone extremely easy on you, and I suggest that you take their suggestions to heart, because the responses could have been much worse.

I am glad for every person who finds out that it is false before they get married in the temple. Having to tell your TBM spouse that you don't believe it anymore is not fun.

The first line was enough. Sounds like preaching to me, thanks but no thanks to whatever wonder cure was offered. Nothing personal nothingsimpossible, I just know for a fact that quite alot of things ARE impossible, the complex challanges we face when leaving mormonism do not have any simple ready-made solutions that can be universally applied to everyone. This isn't a disney movie, life simply doesn't work that way. And you will probably discover that yourself as you grow older.

Also what is behind this idea that everyone here is in need of 'getting on with our lives'? I come here often mainly to be entertained by some author's brilliance and humor. I've pretty much 'moved on with my life' long time ago. Other long time posters have too. We should appreciate those that stick around to provide support and advice to exmormons and soon to be exmormons that really need it.

I liked the post I personally thought it was profound. Thanks for your words of wisdom they helped me!

Damn. In a lot of ways I envy that kid. I wish you the best. There's some great advice doled out on this board. Good luck!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2013 09:53PM by antimarkite.

I would never tolerate a barking dog. Or "just get over it." One way or another the dog's gonna shut up. A dog owner should NEVET just get over a barking dog. You better train that bitch to shut up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2013 12:04AM by FormerLatterClimber.

Nice post! In my house, I have a 17 y/o who knows everything, and a 19 y/o who used to know everything and still knows MOST everything. I love your approach and need to learn how to adapt it...to life in general.

I wasn't trying to bash or humiliate. I was trying to give him some reasoned advice that, if he pays attention to it, might just spare him humiliation down the line.

It would be inappropriate to go to an addiction rehab clinic and say, "Hey! Knock it off! Drugs, are like, bad and stuff."

or to go to a group therapy session for, say rape victims, and say, "Wow, you look sad. Snap out of it!"

Everyone here knows that the idea is to "get over it." The point is that it is not that simple. To assume that it is is insensitive. We are all on a journey, and even if we have some experience in common, it is wrong to assume that the experience was the same.

There may, in fact, be some folks who hold on to hurt longer than they need to. However, they will figure it out in their own time and in their own way. They will not hear some cliche from some kid who has no idea who they are and just think, "Oh, wow, I guess I should just get over it." All that does is hurt more and prolong the process by insulting them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2013 08:49PM by ananke.

I'm definitely not ready to dismiss someone because of their youth. To the contrary, I pay extra close attention to what a kid or teenager has to say. They can be brilliant. On average, I haven't found adults to be more enlightening.

Ragging on this kid for being young and inexperienced - I find that silly.

He makes a reasonable point about life. Things are what they are. I would consider someone who could go through the serious mind-fuck of mormonism and embrace life a role-model. But, I suspect someone who had done that would be much more understanding of what it is like to be torn from your children or cast out of a family. I'm thinking he has a pretty good perspective but he hasn't tasted the pain yet.

some people think sarcasm is an inappropriate way to win an
argument...but if it works why not (sarcasm)

So I'm going to disagree with the original poster (There'sNothingImpossible) but for a completely different reason.

I've not posted here in some time. Mostly for not having a reason to. I "got over it." But I disagree that "getting over it" is a frame of mind that you just "turn off" like a light bulb. I think getting over it is a matter of fixing what Mormonsim broke. Then, if you so choose, you can move on.

Let me put it this way with a concrete example from my own life...I got my wife out after three years of not being over it. What if I'd just gotten over it three years ago and given up? What if I'd just let it go? I can't say what might have been, but I have no reason to suppose it would have been somehow better.

It's as if in the mind of the original poster there is some sort of false dichotomy between dreaming big and moving on. As if you had to choose one or the other. Why this assumption? Why abandon one task? Why not both?

In short, what I'm saying is "get over it" to me sounds more like "give up." It doesn't sound to me as noble as its author intended, nor as courageous. It sounds to me like cowardice.

You can do anything if you dream big? Perhaps. I am pretty sure however, that nobody who ever dreamed big and accomplished anything just "got over it." They landed on the moon--first--then they moved on. Mars next perhaps. But give up on the Moon before you actually land and you're not exactly dreaming big are you?

Dreaming big only means "move on" once you've achieved the goal, not before achieving it. Otherwise move on just means give up.

And the folks who post on this board...they don't just go quietly. They don't give up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2013 12:30AM by The Man in Black.

I used to think "just get over it" was the way to go till I found that I had depression. I left the church around the same time. The sayings "just get over it" or "just go and do it" are the worst things that can be said to someone. If we could don't you think we would. It only brings you down further. Great if you can but don't rub it in other peoples faces. Everybody is different and needs to find their own way.

Take care.

Just because you dream of something does not make it possible.

I could have dreamed day and night all my life, and worked my butt off. I never ever would have become a star football or basketball player. The body I was born with wouldn't allow it. Same with being a prima ballerina. It would have been cruel for the adults in my life to feed a dream that could never be.

I also wasn't ever going to be an Einstein or any type of math or science wizard. Not that I didn't want to be, but my mind doesn't accommodate that kind of thinking. All of the studying and dreaming in the world wouldn't have changed that.

I agree with Raptor Jesus.

As a victim of trauma myself, nobody simply "gets over it."

It's not the same as getting over a cold or a bad break-up. It's getting over shame, mostly, which is a b*stard to deal with because it cuts you to the marrow.