A lot of you were right about my behavior and approach on may of my topics. I did come in thinking that I could save and help people snap out of what I saw as miserable, only because my heart was ruling over my rational thoughts about some people's positions and intentions here on the board. I truly honestly didn't know the things I was saying, came off sounding self righteous, although that was never my intent to think talk or act that way.

My main goal and purpose was to try to spread a good positive message in hopes some people may come around and not feel so upset, angry and frustrated. Although it wasn't my place to determine how people manage their own lives, my heart really did go out to others in hopes to save them from what I perceived as their own demise. The reason why I felt so strong about doing this, like a man on a mission, one that I never served, is because I have been struggling with off and on depression myself, mainly due to losing my Dad nearly 4 years ago.

In the past from my own personal experiences, it has always made me feel so much better knowing and feeling I was helping someone else. It usually gives me a chance to take the focus off myself for a while, so I don't have to focus so much on my own pain and misery. I failed big time at digging deeper to look at myself and the things I was still struggling with, but thought I was overcoming them and getting stronger everyday. For a while, I thought this place was toxic for me, because there are a lot of people that do come here to dump their problems.

This makes it especially incredibly difficult for a sensitive person like myself to read all kinds of heart breaking stories and know how to remain my composure well enough to not throw my feelings out on the table. My wife and I just went through 3 years of marriage and grief counseling and they usually encourage people to share their thoughts and feelings, which I believe is very therapeutic and valuable to anyone who is struggling to overcome certain things. I started out doing that when I first joined, and right away a couple of people were analyzing me apart, which was something I wasn't prepared for or cared for, because I thought this was a place for healing, not tearing down and picking apart.

So once I felt my initial approach by sharing my story, thoughts and concerns that went on in my life failed, I tried another approach by letting others know where I felt they were wrong and mistaking. I tend to wear my heart on my sleeve an awful lot, because I don't want to get stomped on and taken advantage of. I fully admit and see that my own pride got in the way from me learning further, which a lot of you encouraged me to take a step back, watch and listen. I didn't listen, because I so badly wanted to help or think I was helping others with the experience I had/have.

It kinda hurt knowing after a while, my offers to want to help weren't welcome by several very aggressive people on this board, with good reason. All I can say for myself is, a lot of people were right about their observations and suggestions about what I should do to make this a more educational experience, although not very positive looking from the tip of the iceberg. I realize waters run very deep with a lot of people coming out of mormonism, it's just really tough to see, when most people will shield their hearts with a strong outer exterior.

All of that can get very confusing, especially when I myself have suffered from depression off and on. Anyhow, I feel like a major dumb ass, I will now hold my head down in shame and walk away. This board was never a good fit for me, although I learned some very valuable and harsh lessons by a few individuals who approached and tried teaching me with condescending and hurtful words. My hyper-sensitive nature doesn't mix very well in an environment where there's more than half a dozen brutally harsh and insensitive people running the board.

Thank you all for your time, as painful of a process it was, I learned a lot about myself and others who struggle with similar stuff. Sorry for any frustration or grief I may have caused anyone to have too. It never was my intention to upset anyone, and I never meant to. Like I said earlier, I was blinded by the heart I wore on my sleeve. take care.

Nothing wrong with being Christian. Just don't forget to be Christian to yourself first. This is not a board for shame. Christians, agnostics, atheists, Buddhists, Gay, Lesbian, angry, sad, depressed, happy and smart-ass.

All are welcome here.

I didn't care for your posts much at first but you're growing on me.

Nobody here is judging you. Nobody but you.

You have been learning the dynamic of the board, don't give up now. :)

Whew! Glad you included Smart Ass!

Not everyone is living a live of isolation or despair. How would you know that if you hadn't read anything?

So it might be a good idea to just wait a little and not expect to change what isn't broken.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2011 07:53AM by Timothy.

I'm sorry lost your Dad and you've also felt depressed. Depression makes it very hard to adjust to new situations and settings and to respond at your best. Depression can make you feel very far away from the person you want to be or are when you feel better.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2011 09:49PM by robertb.

Sigh.

Like I said, New Order Mormon. Even though you said you didn't prefer it, it probably would suit you better for the time being. It's just a much softer place to land. Once you work through some stuff and get a little thicker skin, come back.

hmmmmmmmmmmm . . .

That must have been difficult to write.

Good luck man, humility is seldom easy.

One thing I've learned over the past few years that I've been hanging out with the ex-Mos, is that they're the finest people I've ever met.

I'm now one of them and consider it a privilege to be a part of this great group.

For those who stick around and take the time to get to know us, I think they probably end up quite surprised. Sometimes there are disagreements certainly, but when the chips are down, they really rally around one another.

That took a lot self checking. I thought I was “wordy” but you’re better. I would have just said “I’m sorry for being a (you fill in)”.
That was a great thing to do that you did do. See ya in future posts.

Posting boards can be very difficult at times.

People are reading words on a page and interpreting them from their view point and no matter how we try, sometimes, they are misunderstood.

We're all muddling along, trying to figure this life out and make sense of it.

You're OK. Your analysis was not easy to do. I think you are too hard on yourself. Let it go and just enjoy.

There is a lot of support, humor, crankiness, venting, raw feelings thrown out with abandonment and on and on.

Most of us don't know each other. Never met.

I usually advise people to put on their Duck Suit and let stuff run off their back.
Someone told me, early on that some posts are "diamonds and some are coal."
Not everything we read is going to resonate with us.
We pick and choose what we need at the time.

Hang around. Read. Listen. Add your support and understanding and experiences.

Leaving Mormonism takes a lot of courage and it helps to know you are not alone.
Do what is best for your family.

Life is short! Love every minute of it!

to get your ego gratification from helping others. The problem is that you are usually parroting what your community "shoulds" support as right. This way you hope to get ego gratification from both sides. However if you lack self actualization your ego is really weak and codependent on approval from others. So it is easy to find yourself wallowing in self pity. Been there done that. When you can accept differences of others and not feel a strong need to change them to your side but hear them out and accept that they are different... then you are on the road to where this board is safe.

EH wrote:
"I started out doing that when I first joined, and right away a couple of people were analyzing me apart, which was something I wasn't prepared for or cared for, because I thought this was a place for healing, not tearing down and picking apart."

A reality of this board, is that we are all individuals. We are all at different stages of recovery, and come from different backgrounds, personalities and experiences...even though we are all healing in some fashion from the same effed up cult.

Because of that, there is no cookie cutter method that will work for everyone...nor is there a specific speed you need to recover...some people have been on this board for over a decade and still need it...others come and go with the wind. Like SUsieQ said, take the diamonds with the coal...glean what you need, forget the rest. That will even mean different posts on different days will hurt or help.

If you choose to post something here, it is a public board with pretty lenient rules....as long as those guidelines are followed...people are FREE to speak their minds...this includes what you consider 'tearing down and picking apart'. It is a place for RECOVERy from mormonism...but that doesn't mean that every person in recovery sees the need to pander to people with thin skin. I honestly do hope you stick around and learn and provide input here...but just don't expect everyone to automatically agree with your line of thinking...that is the MAJOR reason I left...and probably most of us left mormonism...

When I first came here...I had to do as Cheryl posted...I read/lurked/observed...until I felt I was strong enough to post without getting my feelings hurt. There are still times, 7 years later, where I need to back away from here and it isn't helpful to me for a particularly vulnerable time in my life...doesn't make it a bad place...just means that for that day...it isn't what I need.

I read and understood every bit of each persons post. All of you are very wise and learned. A lot more than most folks out in our vast world. I appreciate each and everyone's comments. It blows me away sometimes knowing there are others outside my immediate family who know and understand more than they do, because you all have been through it. You'd think those who come from a big family, Atleast more than a couple of them would know and understand what you're going through. Not so.

Thank you for those showing you care just by pitching in, even a nod, smile and a hmmmmmm was very thoughtful. What i posted was sincere and I took a lot into consideration what everyone's said and suggested. I just want to let you all know how much I appreciate your sincere feedback. I wasn't expecting anything, but thank you for showing me love, forgiveness and support on issues your average active mo couldn't begin to understand, because their own pride getting in the way. Thankyou! :-)

I thought that was only from a rap song. Forget the artists name. Ice tea maybe? Anyway thanks for the reminder. Funny, I've given that same advice to my younger bro several months ago. Never thought I'd need to hear it and find it useful.:-) Jesus really said that? That's cool.

Except by those who want to use and abuse us and not have to suffer the wrath and anger when it rightfully rains down on them.

Telling a victim that they should not be hurt or angry and the offender that will not suffer the consequences when a victim confronts their lie, abuse or unrighteous actions is Hall Mark of and abuser.

They want to teach victims that the normal healthy feeling of anger and indignation are bad, so that they can get away with actions without fear of retribution from the victim.

And I apologize if it sounds a little harsh-

Why in the hell did you think you could come here and "save" people? Don't you think that's a presumptous and arrogant attitude? What makes you qualified to think you can save people from their misery and pain?

The thing is, just because someone is dealing with a painful memory or a screwed up situation, doesn't mean they are leading a miserable life.

As a personal example, I am still working through emotional and mental baggage because of TSCC, my TBM mother, and my dysfunctional family. I'm dealing with it now, in my 30's, because I wasn't able to deal with it back then. I read that when you're at your happiest and most secure, the worst shit comes out because you have the tools to deal with the pain. It doesn't mean I need a savior or I live in misery.

People don't need an egotistical "saviour" when dealing with trauma; They need empathy, understanding, kindness, compassion, and the tools to heal themselves.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2011 09:27AM by itzpapalotl.

When I am dealing with important painful issues, I don't want or need some self appointed savior to butt in and try to "fix it".

If I am going through something that is making me depressed, the last think I need is overly sensitive self appointed savior spewing cleches like "love heals all". What I do need is people that have dealt with similar situations and have made it through. I need these people to let me know that they have been there, that it gets better, and to share how they handled the situation.

Perhaps the book "The White Knight Syndrome" would be of some use for experienceheals

http://www.whiteknightsyndrome.com/

... RFM appears to be happy hunting grounds for the conversion minded.

You've been here long enough to have noticed more than a few come and go.

Here's what tipped me off:

"I've had a fairly recent experience over at postmormon.org where I felt I was heavily misunderstood, accused and attacked from various members including some of the moderators, including the vice chairman of the entire group. They thought my entire focus and "agenda" of my short existence there was to try and "[sell] Jesus" to everyone. I "WASN"T". I was only sharing my personal testimony and I wasn't trying to force anyone to think, feel or believe similarly. My intentions were far from that."

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,71339,71339#msg-71339

I don't visit JR's Fluff 'N' Stuff much (that one's mine, Cabbie), but have been there enough to know its a tea party compared to RFM. It would seem, however, that sharing personal testimony ain't received well in that neck 'o' the woods neither. In any event, that's the first time I've ever heard anyone complain of Postum being too rough. Not a good sign.

Savior types imagine themselves on a "higher plane" which explains why they always feel "heavilly misunderstood" when challenged. Again, this place, at face value, appears ripe for the pickin'. Sadly, another one bites the dust.

Timothy

It reminds me of that "Wiccan Priest" guy who was trying to start his own religion...He gave off that attitude of "being on a higher plane of existence."
For fucks sake....anyone who claims "special, magical knowledge" is suspect at best, a manipulative nutjob at worst.

Good old Wiccan Priest aka Soul Coach Kevin:

http://www.soulcoachkevin.com/

Wasn't he the guy who suggested we accept Joseph's Myth as the beautiful story of a boy in search of truth rather than dismiss it as a calculated fraud?

All in the name of "healing" of course.

Oh, and check out those reasonable rates!

This is the Gospel according to Timothy ... Buy your way into Heaven, that comes to One Pound, Seven!

Timothy



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2011 11:20AM by Timothy.

Amen, brutha!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2011 11:18AM by notamomo.

The Mormon culture makes the assumption that each member "has more light" and therefore is called to march out into the world and save those in darkness. A peculiar aspect of any culture is that fundamentals, like a hierarchy or a view that involves superiority of the group s p r e a d s to other areas of life. So you see members acting like authorities on subjects they know nothing about, having opinions without hearing both sides, having opinions unsupported by any facts, etc. In other words, a fixed delusion of superiority.

Every single person on this board has discovered his or her Mormon assholeness and had to deal with it. I remember the day a person (and exmo) told me to my face, smiling, that he didn't like me. I felt upset because I liked him. This was one of the greatest spiritual moments in my life: I learned that I was acutely uncomfortable knowing someone I wanted to like me didn't--and WTF? He was fine with saying that? Over time I realized that he didn't need my approval, that in the "real world" people were ok with saying things others might not like. And I might be as authentic some day (although I wouldn't tell someone I didn't like them because I am now a drama avoider and would not feel it was important to share that and risk the person maybe being in depression, or having a life crisis of some kind that I knew nothing of.)

This board is great practice for stopping thinking/relating like a Mormon. Which is what you have been doing. Here are some affirmations that can help you get out of Mormonthink:

*I am a man/woman among other men/women.
*I have no special relationship to God that others don't share.
*There may be no God and that's ok.
*There may be another God and that's ok.
*I can hear the beliefs of others without commenting.
*I can hear the opinions of others without commenting.
*I will only comment when I have something to add to the conversation
*I will say my piece in the fewest possible words.

You are obviously a thoughtful person, plus a good writer. May I suggest a book for you which will help you move into your new future --and it's not about Mormonism or religion at all. It is "The Artist's Way" by Julia Cameron. It is famous for releasing blocks that creative people experience. I felt that I wasn't appreciated by my children, my coworkers, my friends. They didn't seem to understand that I truly WANTED TO HELP THEM. I was depressed and didn't know how to change things.

One morning while streaming my morning pages, I wrote that my offers to help were messages of "YOU NEED MY HELP." Even when they accepted the help or acknowledged it was helpful, they resented me. Instead of empowering others, I was making them feel dependent and inadequate.

The Mormon church teaches us to tell people they need Mormonism, that they need help dealing with God. The truth is that THERE IS NO CERTAINTY on any of this stuff. We're all navigating the spiritual waters in different ways even if we all dress alike.

Here at RfM people call it as they see it. People make mistakes posting and their posts are deleted. Now are you going to take that as a personal rejection? Only if you feel you have to experience acceptance from everyone for everything. And right here is where you can measure the thickness of your hide. Not everyone is going to like you and enjoy your posts. You are not everyone's cup of tea. But you ARE for some people and it's enough. I have more in common with some of my board friends here than I do with my neighbors and my "real" friends!

Welcome to the real world when and if you are ready for it.

Best,

Anagrammy

... I BEEN KICKED IN THE BUTT BY LOVE!

Timothy

it all run off your back.

I had the same experience of writing my first post as a "helping post" in the face of anger that I little understood. I managed to swim away from the church when I hit college. Even though I went back over and over, I didn't really believe or participate much. And tithing only briefly when I was talked into going to the temple for a family sealing.

I had my ears immediately pinned back with that first post. I felt it, too! Then as I read and learned from this board, I got really angry myself at the immense harm the morg has done in skewing people's lives.

There's no need for you to go away. You are thoughtful and insightful. It takes guts for you to write as you have. Stay and learn.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2011 11:29AM by Adult of god.