East S Temple is where the grand old mansions built a century ago are. The governor's mansion is just up the street a bit. So yes, the Masons must have been pretty prominent in early SLC. They certainly were able to raise significant money.
The masonic lodge on East Temple in Salt Lake is the only one I'm aware of in the state. I'm sure there are probably others, but you just don't hear about freemasonry in Utah. I've worked several jobs in the state and haven't come across a coworker that I know is a mason. In my experience freemasonry is more common outside of Utah.
I was born in Utah, and my father said the only way he survived was being a Mason. At the time, you were either a Mormon, a Mason or an outcast. For many years, he held joint membership here in Florida and in his lodge in Price.
I used to live at the Crestwood apartment complex on State St. in Provo during my BYU years and would see cars parked a that lodge regularly, lots of police cars actually... I haven't lived there in years though, so who knows.
There is a large Masonic lodge in Ogden on Harrison and 20th street. I lived down the street from it and remember it being built. Here it a website with a list of Utah Masonic Lodge locations.
There is a lodge on first north and just a bit west of the corner of first west in Logan. I went to an open house there when I was exiting the TSCC. Very nice people who seemed to be focused on service and community. They focused on community service and brotherhood. I ran from the building.
Years later, I'm more relaxed about my experience. I can now see that it could be a great asset to have in my life for social interaction and feeling more connected to my community. Kind of a replacement for Mormonism but with REAL community involvement without an ulterior motive lurking in my intent.
ozpoof Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > What about the initiations? They make Mormonism > almost look mainstream. I can't get past how grown > men engage in childish crap like that.
If I may be so bold: you are echoing what Alan Pinkerton said about similar ceremonies by the New York firefighters' union. Yes, that Alan Pinkerton. He was infiltrating their organization. Their ceremony included a veil, robes, passwords, handshakes, and three distinct taps with a mallet. At the time, everybody in the US had some version of the Masonic ceremonies. Pinkerton called in "the silliest bosh imaginable".
What he, and almost everybody else, missed, was that at the time these ceremonies were invented they served deadly serious purposes. They were designed to conceal the identities of the recently deposed Templars, and to help them keep alive the memory of their former high status. One day the Templars were Top Dogs.The next day they were hunted criminals.
These ceremonies did not derive from Solomon's temple. They did not arise at the time of Adam. They were the inventions of a medieval society with a price on their heads, and the penalties were stark reminders of what the authorities would do if the Templars were ever found out. Throat slitting and public disembowelling were popular family entertainment at the time.
Over the years the ceremonies multiplied like rabbits as people forgot their original intent and got all excited about all that fun secrecy stuff. DeWitt Clinton tried to standardize all the Masonic rites in New York. He gave up. The Erie Canal project was a cakewalk in comparison.
I just wanted to throw this out to try to help people understand the real, historical basis for Freemasonry. As with so much in life, the majority of people will choose to believe the funnest explanation over the real one. It's just too much fun.There is no mystery about the Bermuda Triangle. The Mayans were not conduits for extraterrestrial overlords. Water from Lourdes is simply wet. And yet over and over again people with the real answers are put on the defensive to prove that such things are not mysterious, to people who have no intention whatsoever of listening. Is it any wonder that people on this site are a little flustered?
You're not flustered. You just have poor reading comprehension.
Don't put words in my mouth.
It's 2013. I repeat my statement above. I can't get past how grown men, usually the pillars of society such as city councillors, judges, corporate heads, police etc engage in such childish crap..... and sexist to boot.
There's no need for any if this garbage ritual today, no matter how legitimate the reason for it was.
Also, if you think these pillars of society don't scratch each other's backs then you're naive. Zoning laws, fines, misdemeanors or even felonies can be fixed with the right contacts - Masonic, Mormon or whatever.
Your opening outburst is completely uncalled for. Your position was essentially the same as Alan Pinkerton's. and you and Pinkerton are right. It is silly, whatever the historical roots.
As for your final paragraph about corruption and back-scratching, what's up with that? The other poster didn't say anything about that, yet you are going on about how he is naive if he doesn't think that happens. Now that's putting words in somebody's mouth.
My observation that Masonry with its one trouser leg rolled up with a noose around their neck is ridiculous crap that adults who sit in positions of power should know better to avoid ..... stands. I don't care about its history. History is full of superfluous ritual and nonsense we can do without. Mormonism confirms that. I don't know anything about Pinkerton. I do agree that such bullcrap doesn't belong anywhere in 2013, especially in a place of work, but also in.........whatever the F Freemasons thinks it is.
Read my original comment and the other poster's tangent on the supernatural and you should see why I accused them of putting words in my mouth. They misread what I said.
Also, back scratching among Freemasons is common. This Iis why some countries require police and those who may be corrupted are required to declared their membership to their employer.
Google police+Freemason+corruption.
If you think secret handshakes, secret key words and phrases, and signs, are used to identify fellow masons so they can be invited to a Tupperware party, you are deluded.
The other poster was justifying Masonic secrecy and ritual because of the supposed origins of Freemasonry. My point was that the origins don't make modern masonry innocent and any less ridiculous than Mormonism. My point to them was that these people aren't stone masons protecting their knowledge or whatever the hell they were supposed to be doing. These people are CEOs, police, judges etc who use Masonry like any other network, except masons are sworn to protect brother masons no matter what. You can check that in the oaths, although you seem like you probably know them already. Are you a mason by any chance?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2013 06:07PM by ozpoof.
Since this topic is expanding, how many of us were members of either Lambda Delta Sigma (I was) or Sigma Gamma Chi? I don't think they exist anymore, do they? I remember going through the rituals, which, I know now, were Masonic.
My husband (a nonMormon) is a member of a fraternity. In speaking with him about it, what it comes down to is being part of a brotherhood (boy's club). His closest friends are fraternity brothers whose relationships were forged 40 years ago.
I'm sick and tired of watching these so called pillars of our community covering up the prostitution and drug activities in our area all in the name of freemasons. This does not give them any right to terrorize our town, women and children all for their sick sex games. They are the head of businesses in our town with a lot of power making sure if everyone doesn't go along they will make sure your gone. The name of their game is steal property from hard working people. They get rid of wives because they don't believe that sex with one woman for life is normal so, its a screw fest for all. Protecting our young girls has been terribly difficult because they offer them money and material things to sell themselves. This so called lodge is just a cover up for a drug selling prostitution, human trafficking ring compliments of your chicken shit society. SHAME ON YOU... You should all be in prison.
Umm, my husband is a Mason and I've not seen any evidence he or anyone I've personally met does anything you've listed above. I'm sure there are bad apples in the bunch, like there are in every walk of life. But that is no reason to tar everyone in the Masons with the same brush.
A lot us are tired of this so-called craft and their cover-up of endless shenanigans... just like you are.
Thanks for the revealing post. (Don't let the Danites getcha darlin'.)
But their lying propaganda is relentless.
Such testimonies of defectors may help to bring down this "midnight foe of our liberties"... someday.
How many, in or out of tscc, remember that eight of the 12 original poobahs were "on the square." (as in the square and compass stick-pin in Lion Young's tie.)
The bloody Lodge is the perfect hidey-hole for scum.
There's one here in Ogden by the grocery store I shop at. Whenever I pass by it I have to laugh because they have a fireworks stall parked right beside it. I have never seen anyone go in there, but it must be active enough to have a fireworks stall during the Summer. Or so I think?
My ex was a mason. He really wanted me to join the women's lodge and when he was drunk he'd tell me all about what went on at lodge and all the rituals. What a pile of c#$%.
1) I wouldn't join any organization that didn't consider me good enough for the main lodge 2) I'd rather spend my evenings at home with a glass of wine, reading a book than knocking on doors, walking round in squares and reciting memorized scripts.
As for the corruption aspect, it didn't sound to me like that was really the case anymore, but there was certainly opportunities for business dealings etc.
Basically just all sounded like childish nonsense for people who wanted to feel special with a secret - like the Temple?? Surely not?! ;)
I met a woman in Hurricane, UT. She and her husband moved there from SLC. (I Sold her a horse in fact) She was a devout TBM AND a one of the high ups of the Eastern Star (masonic womans group) She and her high level masonic husband both attended the LDS, St. George temple on a weekly bases. She was one of the blatant liars I ever met. I called her on her blatent lying. She was speechless. Never saw her again.
IMHO these "club Joiners" are NOT to be trusted and not people one wants for friends.