I'm still closeted, and asked to talk this Sunday about a temple-centered life.

Any ideas for subtle little things to drop in to get people thinking that can be plausibly denied if anyone points them out?

Nothing could be more vapid and wasteful than a temple-centered life.

Amen.

Sorry, that's as subtle as that subject can be.

Maybe cite how much the temples cost to build and then in some other part of the talk, talk about how the BoM preaches against spending money on expensive buildings etc. and how money should be reserved for helping the poor and needy (too tired to look any of these up though).

very little will get through a filter that will make people think, remember they are predisposed to ignore the issues.

on second thought, what about relating the uncomfortable feeling you get when you go through the first time...?

I have yet to meet a person that after the first time through didn't sit there wondering what type of religion they were really part of.

You could get a picture of the enormous white and shiny San Diego temple with the green grounds facing the freeway, business hotels and shopping center with men in dark suits leading their brides around the ground and then read the parable about the evil non-believers in their big spacious building mocking the people who don't believe as they do.

I guess I would do something about how temples are supposed to be about families, but going there takes time and resources away from you family.

I would talk about Elder Whiting's address in GC last year. The one where he said that they had an expensive window that was in a remote location in the temple replaced because one small square was 1/8 of an inch crooked. That talk really caused some cog-dis for me back when I was still TBM.

You could relate the story then say something along the lines of "When I first read this I thought 'What a complete waste of sacred tithing money?' and 'If God requires that level of perfection out of me then I'm screwed." Then talk about how they should take it easier on themselves and how it is ok if you slack off on your callings and spend time with your family every once in a while.

Cause some serious cog-dis then make them feel better about themselves while also weakening the church.

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2012/10/temple-standard?lang=eng



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2013 06:19PM by overflow.

Tell them you are not comfortable with that topic, but you'd be happy to give a talk on loving thy neighbor or extending the ideals of the good Samaritan to modern life.

Give the talk they should have asked for. ;o)

Whenever I would be asked to give a talk on a subject I didn't like, I'd give one on whatever I felt like talking about.

Maybe ways to spend time with your family. If you mention something about temples the bish will think you're headed toward the topic, but it never happens.

Not once did anyone ever say a word to me about not talking on the subject. I think they're usually happy someone agreed to give a talk.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2013 06:42PM by Mia.

...is just one more evidence that the church continues to dumb down.

The last time I was "assigned" to give a talk I was actually given a photo copy of a recent General Conference talk to use as my starting point. Actually, the hint was given that I could just read that talk and it would be fine. At the time I was a bit offended that the bishop didn't think I was capable of writing and giving a 15 minute talk without a huge amount of help.

Just like you, I ignored the assigned topic and gave the sermon I wanted to give. I don't think I made any mention of the vapid GC talk. Lets be honest, anybody with half a brain who is comfortable with public speaking can out do a general conference talk with very little effort.

that no longer do. Not talking about the changes in the endowment but about things that were claimed to happen at the Kirkland temple; visions of heavenly messengers, speaking in tongues, interpretation of tongues, people speaking prophecies (every-day members, not the leadership) people writhing on the floor, etc. etc.

Look it up; some real strange shit. Just like pentecostal churches today. Say how sad it is that things like this (real sprititual experiences, oh my!) have been replaced by sitting and watching movies. Go ahead and scare the shit out of 'em.

Then close with, "These things I say humbly, in the name of cheese and rice, ramen." Say it really fast at the close and see if they catch it! Go ahead, live a little!

You might be able to work into the talk something about how temples bring families together - but then work in stories about how when couples are married in the temple parents or siblings are often not "worthy" enough to observe the marriage (in the US anyway). I don't think I could pull it off, but I think even as a TBM this is the one issue that really bothered me, and still does. My own parents were not able to come to my wedding.

Tell them about the European who found the temple marriage much more meaningful because they got a civil marriage first then a Temple sealing a couple days later.

Ask or muse out loud...if we are a church that brings families together and it is okay for civil marriages the same day as a temple marriage outside the US why is there two sets of rules???

I thought God's doctrine didn't change.

The exclusion of family members, especially NON members of converts....wouldn't that keep people away from the church? Really?

We're supposed to live by the golden rule if we are Jesus church and follow Jesus teachings. Aren't we?

Is that what Jesus would do? Exclude people from a wedding when other countries have weddings and sealings days apart???

One might think it wasn't about worthiness...but just a way to get people to pay back tithing so they can go see their family when they get married in the temple.

But the church isn't short of money is it? It saves money by having people clean the toilets and vacuum the hall and empty the waste paper baskets...
And the 5 Billion dollar Jesus mall is making money...so excluding people so they have to pay tithing to go to a wedding doesn't make sense..does it?????

Surely the Lord's true church wouldn't do that! That's not what Jesus would do is it?????

Isn't this the Church of Jesus Christ???? His church? How can we tell???

You could turn it towards 'eternal perspective'. Perhaps how living genuinely and being who you truly are, individually created for your individual purpose, plays into your specific calling in life and how that effects your eternity. It's basically on topic without having to get into the temple stuff.

People who have been there know what a load of crap it is and they know that no matter what you're taught in temple prep class, you're not going to become closer to the savior, and in fact will not hear anything about him at all. And you shouldnt have to be put in a position where you have to lie to people who haven't been, by telling them how important the (utterly useless) temple is supposed to be.

"Back when,"the only thing that grabbed my attention in boring meetings was a speaker that provided some laughs using great stories and maybe a joke or two.

So throw in a good temple joke, which shouldn't be hard to come by as the temple going experience is all one big joke from the crazy hand signals, the game of musical chairs and rooms, to needing to pack plenty of drowsy preventing snacks and drinks for the stirring academy-award-worthy movie.

Then hit your audience with how it seems to you that the Lard's one special church and temple should be for ALL of his children, no matter what. And just leave that thought hanging.

The scriptures talk about wicked men wanting you to come into their large and spacious buildings. Well, we sure do want you to come to our large and spacious building, but we aren't wicked! (the congregation quietly chuckles, it seems innocent, but some people start thinking)

You could talk about how you're grateful for the changes in the temple ceremony. That you no longer have to make the motion of slitting your throat or being gutted like a fish. I'm certain you can find a list of changes and say how each is a blessing.

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Or you could give a talk about how temple attendance could be increased if people could do baptism for their dead pets. After all, members are no longer encouraged to submit names of dead celebrities and Jews killed in the Holocaust, so why not people's pets? Then go on and talk about your pet(s) that died.

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Or, show pictures of mormon temples and contrast them with those old churches and cathedrals other religions have. Look, here's a cathedral over a thousands years old, but we have nice new temples.

"For those of you who haven't been to the Temple for a while I urge you to go and witness the ordinance changes for yourselves."

Phone the person who told you to give a talk. Tell him politely, "I won't be giving a talk on sunday."

If he asks you why, tell him: "I wont be in church on Sunday to give the talk."

If he asks you if you are going out of town, you say: "You can find someone else to give the talk."

If he says, "But we want YOU to give the talk," you say: "But I'm not going to give a talk."

If he says, that your name is already on the program, you say, "please have the program changed (not hard to do), or announce that I'm not giving the talk."

If he asks if you are sick, or if something is wrong, answer: "No.

I took assertiveness training in business classes and seminars at work. Still, in situations like yours, you might have to say "no" up to thirty times in a single conversation. Your conversation will be successful for you only if you do not make any excuses or explanations. That just opens you up for more arguments.

One woman was especially aggressive and manipulative. When I decided I wasn't going to give the Relief Society lesson on the temple (most of the lessons are on the temple, tithing, and "honoring the Priesthood"), I called when I was sure to get her answering machine. I gave her more advanced notice, though. I said, "I am not going to give the RS lesson on the 20th." Then, I just didn't pick up her phone calls. Coward's way you, but it worked, and seriously, no one was harmed by this. YOU are the one who is being imposed upon.

What about talking about the historical temples in the Old Testament? I find that history fascinating. And then the modern history of Israel.

It may not be worth bringing up in a talk, but things like putting covers on one's shoes - what's that about? Is that really from the ancient temple and restored (no). What about Jesus and the moneylenders in the temple (another story I never understood growing up). Just some thoughts.

How about talking about seeing the pictures of the bathtubs in the temple for when they would actually wash down with alcohol while standing there all buck nekkid. And how you thought the part of promising to be killed for talking about things that go on in the temple was especially faith building for you.

"The temple teaches obedience. The church has set up a system whereby members can learn obedience through blessings. Those that aren't worthy, who don't pay their tithing, cannot go. When a family member is sealed and another family member is unworthy, it will be clear to the rest of the family that he or she is not living up to the covenants. In this way through family mentoring and temple attendance, the church teaches obedience to its gospel principles."

How's that for subversive? They use passive aggressive techniques to guilt, you use the technique to demonstrate their passive aggressive style.

Another:

"The sacred temple ordinances came about when Joseph Smith had a question about the origin of the masonic ceremonies he attended in the early 1840s. The prophet saw symbolism in the masonry rituals that seemed Christian oriented, and after pondering and praying restored the temple ceremony based on his experiences attending with that group. Today, many of the same ancient elements exist in the ordinances and show that long-standing traditions can help people live a temple centered life just like ancestors of old who weren't even Christian. In this way, the temple connects us to many ancestors, religious or not."


And yet another:

"The temple helps keep youth along the straight and narrow. By continually reminding young women of the goal to be married in the temple and to avoid unchaste acts that will keep them from being sealed, the church focuses the minds of youth on its teachings. Further, when youth attend baptism for the dead, they go through worthiness interviews which keep them in check by asking them personal questions about their chastity and self-abuse activities. This helps the youth know that the church is keeping close watch on them and will not let them wander from its teachings."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2013 09:42AM by Jesus Smith.

Thanks all, some of these of course are not subtle enough, but I like them nonetheless.

I did think one up: Nephi with his small group of followers built a temple "like unto Solomon" in the wilderness. Now given the scale of Solomon's temple, Nephi's life must have been *very* temple-centered for quite some time.