I think it is clear to everybody on this site that large segments of society fear, loathe and despise atheism. Atheists are continually being called on to justify their "choice", as if the default condition for any sane person is to readily acknowledge the existence and potency of God. Theists see belief in God as a moral imperative, and hence atheists are the worst kind of sinners, because they deliberately choose to ally themselves with the very forces of evil.

The delicate question arises as to why this is so. Actually, to any sane person, the situation is exactly the reverse of how it is supposed to work, which is that the burden of proof is on those who make extraordinary claims (to paraphrase Carl Sagan).

Here is my explanation. I have said this a few times in other posts. The gist is: God is the projection of each person's Ego/world view, and as such must be defended at all costs or the person's Ego is shattered. The projection must be seen by the individual as the source and end of all things. Most importantly, it is vital to the individual's self-confidence that everybody else play along and agree with himn or her. That is why that type of person hates atheism so much- because it threatens the inmost sense of their being.

That is why they put atheists on the defensive, and that is why they condemn atheists to the hottest corners of hell.

Does anybody have a different take on the rationale behind the knee-jerk denigration of atheism?

I take a more Freudian view. God is the projection of our internal wants and desires, he is a regression to our infantile state. When we were infants our parents were almighty creators, all knowing, and all loving. We lose that as children and we naturally want it back, so we start to project the perfect parental image onto a heavenly father figure. Like you said, atheists challenge that need meeting deity image, and thus it produces a violent reaction.

And then we make that Heavenly Parent into a total d*ck.

Atheists are outsiders. Christians, Jews, and Muslims have one specific thing in common: GOD. Abrahamic religions share the general belief of supernatural beings (spirituality) with all other religions. No matter what, atheists are the outsiders.

The primitive brain fears outsiders. They represent a difference from the norm. To believers, atheism is totally different from the beliefs that they trust. Thus, they see atheism as dangerous.

Anyway, so many religious people grow up learning morals with religion as the foundation. They can't imagine morals without religion (aka an eternal reward or punishment to keep them in line). This lack of imagination allows them to fear the amoral (not to be confused with 'amor') atheists.

If you watch Fox New's Hannity on air with atheists, you can see him immediately blocking off their opinions. This is an example of self-defence mechanism to protect the ego, their sense of being infallibly correct.

Many atheists have a "knee-jerk denigration" towards religious people, which doesn't help. It only increases theists' perception that atheists are irate know-it-alls. However, intelligent atheists are calm and readily admit that they DON'T know everything. We can't prove the LACK of a god. It's impossible to prove a negative like that.

I see your God=Ego=Worldview Theory. It seems to make sense. Anybody who only SLIGHTLY contradicts one's ego will be tolerated. The ego may even compensate by changing (slightly) to mend this contradiction. However, if somebody comes along and outright denies the concepts held to the center of the ego, the ego must protect itself or undergo massive cog diss. Cog diss sucks.

So, I just presented a couple of reasons why atheists are hated:
1. They're outsiders (tribal instinct)
2. Lack of familiarity leaves religious folk perceiving atheists as Amoral.
3. The religious folks' schema of an atheist is tarnished by angry atheists.
4. It's more comfortable to protect the ego than to experience cognitive dissonance.

How do my theories stand up?

I completely agree. Sometimes I also wonder if there is some FEAR involved too-- fear that the earth really is 4.5 billion years old, fear that there really was no great flood, fear that humans really have evolved over several millions of years; and mostly, fear that the universe really is MUCH larger than a little book of Jewish fairy tales.

It is easy for the simple-minded to hang on to silly religious beliefs that are easy to understand. However, once these beliefs are challenged by irrefutable scientific evidence, fear of the unknown starts to take control-- and these people would rather crawl back into their safety bubble than actually research facts for themselves.

I know this out of experience. A few years ago, I was in this same naive position with mormonism. I did not want to research any "anti" material out of fear that I might actually be wrong. Eventually curiosity trumped my fear, and I now have a much clearer (and impressive) view of the universe and of our earth-- which is well worth having my prior belief system completely shattered.

I've heard about the religious people you're talking about and seen them on tv. But the vast majority of so-called religious people I've been around - I never sensed they cared if someone was an atheist. I don't have any recollection of anyone I personally know reacting negatively to someone saying they didn't believe in god. But my main crowd doesn't have a paternalistic, Heavenly Father, jealous, judging, punishing, rule making, male, human form notion of god. If you're thinking mormon mentality when you're thinking religious, well, that's a different kind of religious person.

But why is it a dirty word for some? I think some of the reasons here apply. People don't like to hear they are wrong.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2013 02:07AM by thingsithink.

Very good point. I live my life surrounded by non-Mormons (Catholics, Protestants, and Jews primarily). No one cares in the least that I'm an atheist.

OK, I take that back. One of my brothers ONCE tried to convince me that I was wrong. He never bothered again. Now we just argue politics.

It's a liberating word.

When I was growing up during the Cold War atheism was equated with Communism and we all knew the dirty Commies wanted us dead. Then many religions believed that we need God to be moral and since most of us didn't actually know any atheists, at least any who were open about it,it was a strange phenomenom for us. I was never afraid of atheists and never hated them, but they were pretty much an unknown quantity until I want to college. Then I discovered they are people just like everyone else and I had no problem with them if they could live and let live.In other words, Iwould respect their views but expected the same in return.This brings me to a certain type of new atheists who just can't manage that. I think this sub group is a part of the problem.Their in your face attitude attitude is not helping the atheist image.

I think most mainstream religious people don't care. I think it's telling that only the most extreme religious people care...they've invested a lot of time, sometimes their entire lives, into doing things that revolve around believing in God (or whatever higher power that applies to them). They spend every waking moment at church or church activities. Everything they wear, eat/drink, say, learn, and teach their children is based on that one belief. Then somebody else, with their casual nonbelief, is basically "invalidating" all that time and energy and effort and says that their lives are a waste. They can't afford to have that illusion shattered. They'd have to change their entire lives/worldview. And people don't want to do that. They want to do the easy thing.

I'd just like to point out that when you say "large segments of society fear, loathe and despise atheism", you are talking about US society.

In France, where atheism is more like the norm and bolstered by a constitution which imposes secularism (laïcité) at State level, atheism is not seen like this at all.

And, although I haven't lived in the UK since the 1980s, I don't think the word atheism carries the same stigma, although it is definitely a more religious society than France.

In other words, I think that the "fear and loathing" of atheism stems from the USA's much greater religiosity than other comparable societies. This religiosity, in turn, tends to make some American atheists more "militant" because they're surrounded (and imposed upon) by so much religion.

Tom in Paris

Because it's an anagram of "a sh1t me"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2013 08:19AM by Stumbling.

Canada is the same. At least the part of Canada I live in. Most people don't go to church. Some are associated with a particular religion, but they don't necessarily go to church on Sundays.

In Toronto itself, there are so many different cultures and religions.

It wouldn't occur to someone here to ask a person what religion they belonged to, or if they're even religious at all. It just wouldn't come up. I'd be really startled if it did.

I've certainly never had anyone ever ask me, "Have you been saved?" I think I'd just blink in surprise and say, "Pardon?"

Right, Greyfort. Even in religion-soaked S. Alberta, where you can come across an occasional "are you saved" every decade or so, Religion is not something you'd generally ask another about.

That goes for many professional Mormons, by the way. They aren't going to the office and living by the 'everyone a missionary' mantra, at all. Corn Busts etc. are not filled with non-member friends and neighbours. Far from it.

(By the way, hope all is well with you in flooded Toronto. You guy's envy for our Muslim, most-likely-gay Mayor just warms my heart! It's weird how you guys suffer with a Mayor that is the very epitome of a caricature in look and deed of an Alberta redneck.)

Human

I think it might in some small part be due to the fact that the fear of God can no longer be used to control them

Because atheism's mom didn't wash behind its ears?

My 2 cents. I think people section off a part of their thinking and call it God. This part prays, meditates, chillaxes. When I say, "Nope, God doesn't exist." They are understandably upset. They know God exists. They just don't realize they created him. Also people fear death for themselves and loved ones. If you say there is no God...dead means dead. People don't tend to love those who remind them that their greatest fantasy (heaven) is the flip-side of their greatest fear (nothing).

I live in the Bible belt. I hear lots of atheist hating comments without any provocation. Most people just assume I'm churchy and I let them.

A good question. Speaking from my own observations, I'd say "yes" the word "atheist" has a negative connotation in our society. It shouldn't, but I might suggest a word change to better market the philosophy. Maybe part of it is this...

Most of the atheists I have known are just perfectly fine people...until they get talking about their beliefs (oops.,sorry, lack thereof!), and then they almost all seem to make a mistake that ends up getting them in trouble. Basically, they will say, and project body language that says...you're stupid if you are religious and I'm smarter than you because I am not. Now don't nail me to the cross! I'm just saying that is the way I and many, many, others feel when this subject comes up. Think Bill Maher for instance (I absolutely love his show, but he is an arrogant prick, but an entertaining one!).

I have zero problem with atheism. I believe (in my "belief" system) that you can accomplish the things you need to with an absence of belief or with an abundance of belief, or anything in between. In other words, it doesn't matter what you believe, it matters what you do, what you become, how you treat others.

OK, I have pulled the pin, the door is locked, and it looks like we are all looking at each other wondering who is going to jump on the proverbial grenade!

elciz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A good question.
>
> Most of the atheists I have known are just
> perfectly fine people...until they get talking
> about their beliefs (oops.,sorry, lack thereof!),
> and then they almost all seem to make a mistake
> that ends up getting them in trouble. Basically,
> they will say, and project body language that
> says...you're stupid if you are religious and I'm
> smarter than you because I am not.

+1 Exactly.
There are very few atheists who act this way. But this is exactly what the obnoxious ones do.

I know for me I was a little afraid of them because I didn't understand how they could navigate life without commandments. I did understand how they could function without a moral compass.

I also knew that their position was the most logical. Yes religion in general is ridiculous to any logical mind, but there had to be some more (God). Obviously I received my spiritual confirmation that the church was true and everyone else was just less then perfectly happy because they never received that witness.

Same here. It was when I actually became an atheist that I realized my moral compass comes from what I feel inside is right, not because God, commandments, or a church told me what to think.

I assume anyone to be unrealistic and misguided who insisted I must justify my religious ideas or lack of them.

I see it as question of mutual respect NOT to discuss someone else's religious beliefs (or my own lack of them). Dialogue of that sort is rarely useful to either side.

Tom in Paris

From an article by Phil Zuckerman in the Cambridge Companion to Atheism (2007): "Even in democratic societies without governmental coercion, individuals often feel that it is necessary to say that are religious, simply because such a response is socially desirable or culturally appropriate. For example, the designation 'atheist' is stigmatized in many societies; even when people directly claim to not believe in God, they still eschew the self-designation of 'atheist.' Greeley (2003) found that 41% of Norwegians, 48% of the French, and 54% of Czechs claimed to not believe in God but only 10%, 19%, and 20% of those respondents self-identified as 'atheist,' respectively."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2013 02:01PM by theraven.

For those saying that the majority of people (even religious people) couldn't care less if someone is an atheist, read this:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=in-atheists-we-distrust

An excerpt from the article:

"Gervais and his colleagues presented participants with a story about a person who accidentally hits a parked car and then fails to leave behind valid insurance information for the other driver. Participants were asked to choose the probability that the person in question was a Christian, a Muslim, a rapist, or an atheist. They thought it equally probable the culprit was an atheist or a rapist, and unlikely the person was a Muslim or Christian. In a different study, Gervais looked at how atheism influences people’s hiring decisions. People were asked to choose between an atheist or a religious candidate for a job requiring either a high or low degree of trust. For the high-trust job of daycare worker, people were more likely to prefer the religious candidate. For the job of waitress, which requires less trust, the atheists fared much better.

It wasn’t just the highly religious participants who expressed a distrust of atheists. People identifying themselves as having no religious affiliation held similar opinions."