...as a resigned ex-member, I still wanted to help an elderly lady in the Branch who was just scratching by. My wife and I brought her over 4 boxes of groceries, and spent a little time with her. She recounted the state of the Branch, under the new control-freak BP. New dress codes,( she got sent home; she is Native American, and her clothes looked too "Indian"), RSP bought her the "appropriate" dress, financial counseling (mandatory), by a hack, who doesn't realize the average income in this demographic is around 18,000-22,000, pre-screeing of talks and lesson plans, open berating and discipline, and how she caught the Branch clerk elevating the Sunday attendance #'s from 28-30 to 50+, called him out, and got in trouble for that. She is on the edge wth her own testimony, and our visit didn't add much, I suppose.

...from friends in other Branches in the area, it appears this is becoming fairly mainstream; ratcheting up control and pressure...as the Good Ship LDSInc. is listing to starboard...

...at least in North Central Kansas, (also known as "GodMaker Country").

I love to hear things like this.

I was both happy and sad to see women wearing nice pants suits into the chapel for my grandmother's funeral.
Happy because equality and options and wear pants to church day!
Sad because I don't want TSCC to change with the times, I want them to stay the nasty, controlling, authoritarian environment like what you described in your OP. The better to alienate the young people.

So God's idea of appropriate church wear is a very narrow slice of late 20th century upper middle class american "white people" attire.

Just like he wears...

In the ward I grew up in, we were chastised if we wore clothes that were too nice. The more lower class the better.

Thanks for giving this woman a hand. I'll bet you that kindness and honesty will open her eyes and that is what you have given her.

I'm sure that the Bishop had on impeccably "appropriate" clothing.

Mrs. Bishop probably used Tide to remove the skid marks from his garmies. She took an extra hour to starch, iron and crease his shirt. She probably spit-shined his $200 shoes.

What I truly hope is that an extra "hole" was formulated into his underwear and suit trousers.

Why? Because from here I can see that he has a giant pole up his A$$.

What an arrogant bastard!

What on EARTH is too Indian? braid, beading and long hair??????
CHEEEEZ!!!! Poor lady, I hope she shredded the 'appropriate' attire into TINY little peices and spent her tithing on an even more "INDIAN" looking outfit for the following week!

Thankyou for helping her! I appreciate it on behalf of all of us who cant!

While I was a morg missionary, we had a group in this town on the German-Polish border. Yes a group--not big enough to be a branch.

Anyway, the group leader actually used to work for the Stasi. Nice transition.

Too Indian? That comment made me absolutely furious. Who the hell does that bishop think he is? If he'd said that in my hearing, he would have had an interesting introduction to the variety and volume of the swear words in my vocabulary, along with an interesting review of his general character and worth. What an asshat.

Sorry if I am taking up more than my share of this thread, but I am SO angry about this.

I must explain. I am an Australian of European descent (therefore you understand VERY white and delightsome *vomit!!*) and Australia has no better record when it comes to Indigenous peoples and racism than any other western colonised country. However, we are making good inroads into that racism, and my job is part of that. I tutor students of Aboriginal descent at university, to help overcome any educational disadvantage they have experienced because they are Indigenous. I am tutoring one of my student this year (who I am VERY proud of) in a Masters degree in Peace studies, which includes non violent protest. Sooooo with my anger if FULL rage, but my brain in gear I have the following suggestion for that Branch.

Arrange for every person of Native Indian descent (I apologise if that is not the name you would prefer, but I am unaware of how else to express it), as well as any people of other descent who wish to help, to obtain full native costume for next Sunday, with breehes, beaded dresses, moccasins and even beaded head bands with feathers. Arrive in a group and be sure to greet all members of the branch VERY politely, and proceed as a quiet and reverent group into the chapel and sit at the FRONT of the room. Sit quietly and reverently through the entire service. However, be sure to have with you a photographer from the local newspaper to record any response to this event, positive or negative, for the next edition of the newspaper. If you decide to do it, GOOD LUCK, I am with you every step of the way!!

Also, while I am unaware of the finer points of the law in the US, but it seems to me that what that Hitlarian BP did was against the law. It would be here. As long as the lovely Native Indian sister was not causing any disturbance in the Church meeting (and I am sure she wasn't) she could not be asked to leave for wearing something that is of her culture.

Number 1. The Church, when a service is on. is a public venue that anyone can attend as long as they do not interfere with the service, eg yelling, swearing etc.

Bumber 2. Any form of racism is illegal, and certainly the banning of her indigenous looking clothing is right up there with racism.

I am only making a guess based on my own understanding, but I think this is worth looking into. That dear lady has her rights within a democratic society to attend church in whatever she chooses to wear, ESPECIALLY her own Indigenous clothing. Indeed, to most people, she should be WELCOMED for her pride in her people. Perhaps the police and/or a lawyer could be contacted concerning this AWFUL incident.

Most people don't know that the reason the nephites were wiped out by The Lord is because they began to wear clothes that were too indiany to church.

That Branch needs a flash mob round dance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzTVl6VBxcw

What town in Kansas is the branch meeting house?


1 Nephi 12:23 And it came to pass that I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations.

THEY ARE IDLE NO MORE!

I have a peppery neighbor, white, who is about 74 years old now. A few years back her RS president said what you wear to church isn't right. My neighbors dress didn't make muster.

The RS president said 'I'm going to get you an appropriate dress to wear to church."
Neighbor said "Don't bother, I won't wear it and you'll be wasting your money."

The RS brought the dress to the neighbor.

The neighbor returned the dress to the RS president in a paper bag. It was in a lot of little pieces because the neighbor cut it to ribbons with her sissors.

The RS pres backed off.

I know in general, Indians are much more polite. A gift is a promise...in Alaska think "potlatch". So maybe she wouldn't want to cut it up...but we wish it was returned.

There is nothing wrong with what she was wearing to church..

The RS president made it sound as if the dear lady was wearing a skunk skin loin cloth and beads!!!!

No, rude behavior does not have to be tolerated.

Is it just me or are TBMs becoming more and more hardnosed and extreme?

Almost makes me wish I was still Mormon...so I could go back into a branch or ward where I'm not known...and be an annoyance....almost....

Ron Burr

Couldn't you still do that, technically?

Hello Mormon Observer,

I am sorry but I did not understand (not being American)about the reference to a gift being a promise in the Native Indian culture, nor the meaning of the "Potlach". Did my suggestion of a 'gentle confrontation' run contrary to Native Indian culture in some way or is their 'politeness' a learned beahoviour since white arrival?

I would be grateful for an explanation.

Thankyou!

Sorry about that..my family wanted to go somewhere and I didn't type out the meaning of "Potlatch" in the Tlingit culture.

It was like a form of insurance.

You gave a big party and gave gifts to your friends and relatives. It was very public and everyone knew what you gave to whom. The gifts were displayed and then given after everyone was full of good food and good humor.

They were an insurance against the future. If you met an untimely death; a fishing/hunting accident or died of old age, your family survivors were to be taken care of.
You had added prosperity to your nephew. He got something fabulous that made him a little bit wealthy. It was understood he was to take care of your widow. She was not to go hungry and unsheltered. etc. covering all of your kin that depended on you.

When you attended potlatches you were given the same type of gifts and you took care of others if called upon.

It was a shameful thing if you ignored the promise of a potlatch.

I believe sometimes totem poles called "ridicule" poles were erected if you didn't pay the debt you owed the family. Chief Shakes Island in Wrangell Alaska has three frogs on a cross bar to this day. The family did not pay so the pole or advertisement of their shame was never removed.


The term "Indian Giver" came from the tradition of two cultures meeting and not understanding the subliminal rules.
When the tribesman gave a nice gift, you were to give him something of equal or greater value. If you didn't or gave him something of lesser value, he took back the gift he gave you. Europeans did not understand that and called the behavior "Indian Giving".

Thankyou Mormon Observer,

For your thorough explanation. I enjoyed it!! It bears some similarity to some of the traditional Australian Aboriginal peoples customs. Here it is called reciprocity. In other words, if you gave a gift, one was given in return. You can imagine how abused THAT was when white people arrived (who, in fairness did not understand). In Aboriginal tradition, widows and orphans were also assigned special carers within the language group and this resposibility was taken very seriously. There was no shirking of you familial/tribal responsibilities then, or there were BAD consequences. So no one disobeyed. It worked beautifully.

You have tweeked my curiosity so I will do some research into the customs you mention and others!

Thankyou AGAIN!!

Hey Lethbridge Reprobate,

Can I please join your fan club?

YOu are amazing!!

What inhumane treatment for anyone to be put through. So proud of you for being there for her. Cudos to you.

I vote in favor of people arriving to sac meeting in lovely cultural regalia, What a beautiful sight to imagine.

I was also appalled that this Stasi-bishop is PRE-SCREENING talks and lessons. I have wondered now and then if anyone knew of this happening or had experienced it. I have always thought this type of action and control would follow soon after the cult started to assign topics for talks and ended missionary revelry at sac meeting.

I wonder why the cult doesn't just assign people to read certain articles right out of the ensign for his or her talk and have all members follow along in their required bring-along-ensign book. Follow this with book reports due no later than Wednesday. Of course, the book reports would be busy cult-work, never intending to be read, but the members need never know.

The cult is getting nervous,

Reply to BP: 'you spend every day reading about a race of Indians and yet you berate me for wearing clothes that even the most modest Nephite would be proud of? When Jesus visited the Nephites did he turn away those who looked a little too 'native'?