Been a lurker for a while...and this board is great. I need to vent. It's been about 9 months since my hubby and I both decided (independently of one another even knowing) that the church was a crock. I had made up my mind a while ago and was just going to make him happy (he was wayyyy TBM). When he decided last october that he didn't believe in the church anymore it was a huge relief for me. We actually used to fight because I just didn't like going to church. I hated RS because I didn't have anything in common with those women. I had a career, degrees, independently owned my own home before we got married, enjoyed a whole host of different hobbies than anyone in the group. I didn't enjoy RS meetings. The crying while bearing testimonies (drove me freeking NUTS), etc. We have a unique family situation with our kids (we have premature babies) that the ward was helping us with for about 4 months. During that time they ward was helping it became literally unbearable for me to have that many well meaning, but ultimately gossipy, backstabbing TBM RS women trapsing through my home. They were here more to help themselves feel better about themselves and do what I called 'baby tourism' rather than help me. I'd tell them how I wanted something done, they'd ignore me. I'd tell them no kids brought into my home because the babies were preemie & can get sick easily, they'd bring their kids and let them play with my 2 yr old's toys - without asking if it was ok. It was awful. Basically NO boundaries. None. I was a prisoner in my own home. We decided not to circ our preemie boy, the old biddies would have cackle sessions over that on my sofa. My mom was there for one of them and since no one in my family is circumcised, she'd set them straight on it. But those women basically amounted our decision not to cut him as nearly apostate. I have more stories, but it was not a fun time and those women made it worse. The bishop calling my husband away to give a talk on mothers on Mother's Day, while I was at home doing everything by myself was a real treat. How that was honoring my motherhood, leaving me to tend to preemie, high needs babies BY MYSELF, I'll never understand. We fought over that one too.

Anyway, my husband basically informed the bishop that we were no longer going to church. He told him we were drinking coffee and, of course, the bishop took our recommends on the spot. Big whoop. That's when the harassment started. The bishop shows up the next week unannounced at our door. My husband, being a very personable and kind man, let him in and sat down to talk with him. Of course, the bishop started in immediately about when we were coming back to church. Pressing. My husband, after about 5 times telling him we aren't going back, finally starts laying out all the reasons to him. All of the concerns about church history. Book of Mormon validity. All of the questions that just can't be answered through 'feelings' alone. I was downstairs evesdropping (had kids up and playing) and the more that man pressed my husband, the more upset I got. He told my husband we were borderline apostate for simply QUESTIONING because he KNEW it was true. So the man shows up at MY door, UNANNOUNCED, and then proceeds to tell us WE are APOSTATE. The gaul. The next day missionaries show up at our door at 9am. And wouldn't leave. Repeatedly ringing doorbell. Waking up my kids who barely sleep as it is. They ask my husband when a good time to come back would be. He told them there wasn't one. Then our HT, who we had never seen before that point, show up the next day...at 9pm. Not cool. I've got small kids. They grill me on when my husband will be home to visit. Then they start showing up at my husband's job. Since then, it's been the RS hounding me. At first I'd still let them come visit, since what harm is it in visiting. That's when they started bringing up taking my 3 yr old to primary or to their homes to play. Yeah, cut that off. Those women aren't allowed in my home ever again. Afterwards, I put a sign on the door saying don't knock, don't ring the doorbell. Basically GO AWAY. And, what do you know...they STILL KNOCK. And ring the doorbell. My 3 yr old got sick and had a febrile seizure at 2am. We had no one to ask, so we asked our neighbors, who are in teh ward, to watch our preemies so both of us can go to the hospital. They were the only ones who knew. The wife of the neighbor is in the RS presidency. The next day I'm getting phone calls, text messages, voicemails from multiple people in the RS asking if we need help. What. The. &^%*(? Did I tell them? Did they have ANY reason to know? NO!!! Again. NO. BOUNDARIES. Gossips. 3 months later... I'm still getting phone calls from my VT at least 4 times a month. Now she's decided since she can't call me, she'll text me. 2 texts this past week alone. My husband says it's not a big deal, but honestly, I feel incredibly harassed by these people. It's stressful. Normal people would get the hint - leave them alone. But these women don't seem to get it. I don't want to start a war, but they're pushing me. And it'll be over my cold, dead body that they get their grips in my kids. We want to move out of UT, then resign our membership to avoid having to deal with this bishopric. Anyone who'd come into our home and tell us we're basically dragging our kids and ourselves into the bitterest part of hell isn't going to take it kindly if we leave. All I want is to be left alone, but it's impossible in this state. It's honestly like they feel entitled to my family, or like we owe them something, because they helped us take care of our kids at a time I had no one else that could help. So frustrating.

Thank you for posting. Your story sounds like many others participating on this board. And you nailed it. The members on the prowl are blind and deaf to personal boundaries. That's why I think the LDS Church is cult like. They feel entitled to tell you how to live, what to believe, what to eat and not drink, and what kind of underwear will get you into heaven.

I spent 27 years as a full time CES guy and believe me they are even worse than the "normal" members. Bottom line, me and a lot of others know exactly where you are coming from. And you are right to be outraged, exasperated, and mad as hell.

Hello PhoenixMom and welcome to the board. Thanks for sharing your story. The sad thing is, I used to be in on the harassment when I was tbm. The bishop would say so-and-so needed a visit, so off I'd go to do my duty. Hopefully I wasn't as annoying as the people pestering you, but it's still embarrassing to look back on. Best of luck getting through it without smacking someone in the face.

Thanks! I've been wanting to post for a while. Took some time to work up the guts just to do it. The first time I came to this board I waited for the lightening to strike me dead. :P Oh, gosh, I can only imagine how the CES people are crazy. lol Believe me, I have stories. My uncle was head of temple security for Mt Timp temple. Just the stuff that'd come out of his mouth, his wife's mouth...then finding out what the church knew about them doing (criminal stuff) and let them get away with. It's sickening.

Sounds like you've got some interesting stories. If you ever feel comfortable sharing them, I'll certainly be interested in reading about them, particularly since I was married in the mt timp temple.

Glad you survived your first post. I'm not a prolific poster, but I comment every now and then. So far, no lightening strikes.

Glad to have you post PhoenixMom. Welcome to RfM :)

Meet them at the door. Take a photo of them with your clearly stated sign next to them.

Write a letter to your BP stating that you have made it perfectly clear you do not want anyone coming to your home. You have even put a clear sign on your door. See Photo.

You have high health risk children and you consider their behavior not only rude and intrusive, but life threatening to your children! He will control his ward and have NO ONE from church coming to your house, or calling you, or texting you. or the next letter he will get will be from the lawyer you have retained for that purpose. Since he and his ward seem to have trouble with politeness and boundaries you have decided you will be contacting the press as well so others can know how thoughtless Mormons can be.

The last thought is that since he himself has ignored your requests to be left alone you have sent a courtesy copy of this letter to the SP, the Regional Rep and the local Sheriff so he can be aware of his bad behavior in case it becomes a problem again. You are sure he only thinks he is doing his job, but by his behavior, he seems to be unaware he is harrasing and stalking your family which is NOT LAWFUL.

Thank you so much for respecting our wishes...

Sincerely,


Mr. Phoenix Dad

Mrs. Phoenix Mom

Welcome and I'm sorry for your frustration. You have made the best decision of your life, for you and your family. So glad to hear your husband is on board - that united front will be key to politely standing your ground and not letting the bastards get you down. You are very lucky.

So, you're facing a significant emotional event much like a marriage or divorce. A good time to step back, assess the situation for several months and don't do anything too suddenly like quitting a good job or moving just to get away from people. I feel for you because the beginning is the hardest, but it does get easier to establish and maintain boundries. Hang in there!

Keep your head up, take the high road and come here for support when you can. Remember, the good folks in your ward are only doing what they've been taught to do...we've all done it with the best of intentions.

Congratulations on the new babies!! You sound like a wonderful mother:)

Welcome, and sorry you're going through the Mo harassment. I ended up having to resign before I wanted to, and then had to move to stop the zealots from my former ward from hounding me. Two things I learned:

You CAN tell them no. You can send a registered letter with delivery confirmation to the bishop (and a copy to church headquarters) telling them that they will be in violation of the law if they show up on your property. If you get the central office involved, they will probably get the bishop to call off the dogs.

If you and your husband decide you want to resign, you can do it without the bishop's approval or even his involvement. If you send your resignation letter directly to church headquarters, they'll kick it back to the bishop but legally you will be out as soon as they receive your letter. If he sits on it, Member Records will process it within 60 days.

And give yourself time to vent, cry, grieve, be pissed off...whatever you need. You have enough on your plate with a houseful of tiny children. You don't need or deserve any harassment whatsoever.

See if you can get them to mow your lawn since they have nothing better to do.

Don't get mad, it only hurts you. Use them to your advantage then discard them when you are done.

So saith the lord.

You have every right to be angry. All couples need their space even with kids who have no health problems. The LDS just step over the line all the time as I understand. I think you need to be very firm, don't allow them to overstep boundaries and protect your kids. All you owe them is simple courtesy - like say hi at the grocery store. I am so happy about you and hubby getting the same feeling about Mormonism at the same time. YOU are a lucky couple.I lived in Utah as a nonmormon so I know about it somewhat. Hope you do get to move. Living in a normal neighborhood without spies and the harrassment you have been getting is going to be such a relief.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2013 12:20AM by honestone.

Mormons=respecter of personal boundaries is one big OXIMORON

To me a lot of the mormons your dealing with have most likely never lived in a community or home where they have seen respecting personal boundaries modeled. But that does not mean you shouldn't point out to them what your needs are and that they are off-base. Suggest they google boundaries on the internet to learn proper decent behavior for themselves. You can make these statements in a firm, but kind manner, but do stand your ground. You ARE standing on firm ground backed by mental health experts who can set them straight.

Your comment that they feel entitled to your kids is a lds cult pet peeve of mine. Keep being the Moma Bear that you are; they are YOUR beautiful children, not the cults, and you are the one entitled to raise them, NOT cult. The cult might even try harder to interfere in the future with your children if you and your husband leave the church. This happened to me and it got very, very ugly. I wish I would have had the ability then that you seem to have now; I should have sued their sorry asses, and still would if the time limit for doing so had not expired. I think I could have won.

I love being out of the cult. Love the feeling of freedom, honesty, and integrity it brings. If you take that path, I know from my viewpoint, you will not regret it.

Well, you hit the nail on the head. Mormons really have NO BOUNDARIES. And I have to admit that thinking of some of the past things I've done makes me cringe, because I realize I was too typical some of the time. Funny what you can see so clearly when you look at it from the outside in.

I went through the same boundary-less harassment when I resigned, because they wanted to keep their claws in my 16-year-old son. I tried hard to let my son make his own decisions about whether he wanted to be involved. He did not, but you could not convince anyone--the bishop, YM leaders, etc., that it wasn't just his evil apostate mother putting her Satanic ideas into his head.

Moving out of the ward made a big difference. But that was because I was able to move and not give anyone a forwarding address. I used a PO Box and just kept the same one when I moved. I moved from Provo to Orem, but in my new place I was able to tell everyone that I was a non-Mormon (which I was) and my son didn't socialize with any of the neighbors. He stayed in the same high school and all the kids from our old ward would try and find out where he lived. He'd just say "Orem," and they would start asking questions thinking they were so tricky. He could tell the Bishop had asked them to try to find out where we lived. It got to be a game and we got a big kick out of it.

I never pushed him to resign his membership and he still hasn't and married a then-inactive LDS girl from a TBM family. That's his deal. If the mormons harass him now, it's not my problem.

Just sayin.

I'm fairly new too and have found this board so helpful. It's good to vent and say everything you need to say here because it is totally pointless to say anything to TBMs. As you have learned, they DON'T listen and they DON'T respect boundaries or your wishes.
It is so nice that both you and your husband both made the discovery, especially while your children are so young and will have a chance to live a normal life. I look forward to hearing more about your story.

You lucky b-itch! You got out with your hubby!

Give him a big from me and the RFM community. Seriously. Give him a hug. We are real people that have really gone through the same things so really give him a hug, for real.

Your lives will get better every day.

Lucky frigin kids too!

Enjoy.