There was another thread about PEC, and I almost responded, but thought I would be misdirecting the thread. I would like to hear what others experienced, so let me know.

I used to go to PEC (Priesthood Executive Meeting) often when I was a member of the church, and I always hated it. PEC is a meeting with the top leaders on the ward level. It's a meeting of self importance where everyone spends time making fun of the downtrodden in the ward.

There were times when the bishop, the quorum presidents, and RS president would spend most of the meeting mocking the poor, the socially awkward, and the mentally ill of the ward. They would talk poorly of families who were renting as opposed to buying their homes. They would complain about people having too many children (even though church doctrine told members to have as many as their bodies could physically produce). They would complain about people who didn't mow their grass just right, or wore "unapproved" clothing to church.

If you were a nonmember, they would still know your business. Basically, anything a person could tell a VT, HT, or bishop in confidence would be used against them in PEC (so when the leader acts inspired, they have actually been to PEC or been informed by the bishop).

It was the most petty bitch-fest I have ever attended. They behaved like vultures over roadkill. I almost told the council to fuck off about talking about everyone the way they were. But, I knew I would be thrown under the bus--no one else seemed to mind, though, because they were gladly "feasting". I also knew the church was bullshit and I would tell the rest of the world what happens in those meetings, as soon as I was free to get my family out of the church.

This behavior is particularly bad in Utah. I have lived in poor areas, student wards, and rich areas, and it's the same everywhere.

I hate it when the hegemony dashes the reputation of the weak for their own pleasure, all the while pretending to help. Some people on this forum have mentioned that minority group members should be leery of TSCC, like Blacks, women, and homosexuals--but, the poor and struggling should be just as leery.

If you are investigating Mormonism because you are down on your luck, or are looking to fit in, run away! Mormonism doesn't give a shit about you. It will grind you on the soles of its feet.

I could tell specific stories, but not wanting to give away too much about myself.

What's been your experience with PEC and other meetings?

that it was just a big gossip session and he hated going.

I went inactive SOME years ago. One of my friends in the neighborhood--her husband was in the PEC meetings. I keep to myself and am very private. My ex is gay and had left me. In fact, we went inactive first--and so the bishop (at the time my neighbor) didn't even know he had left for 2 years).

So--I started walking some years after my ex left me. One night the bishop at the time saw me out walking in the dark. Guess what they talked about at PEC the next week--that I was out walking. Didn't have anything else on me--so . . . When my friend's husband told her about it--she said, "She probably walks at night so she won't be talked about in PEC."

Mormon men are just as bad at gossip as mormon women and they certainly think EVERYTHING is their business.

Yes, yes, and yes.

One PEC meeting is what set me off on my quest for the real truth. Some of the older guys were suggesting that a believing spouse should leave the unbelieving spouse. The couple they were discussing are two of the nicest people around...unbelievable!! I couldn't believe my ears.

And then people wonder how their secrets get out.

I didn't mind the coordinating of activities and planning etc. It was the "spying for the Lord" that turned my stomach.

The "Career CES" bishop was the worst. He wanted to know every dirty detail about everybody's business and didn't hesitate to share what he already knew.

I was really put off the day he announced that Good Brother XXXX had been seen mowing his lawn in clothing too skimpy for garments(horrified gasps)! This was really bad because brother XXXX is a High Priest(more gasps)! Really? I got out of bed at 6AM on a Sunday morning for this?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2013 01:30PM by koriwhoremonger.

koriwhoremonger,

That's exactly how I felt. It felt disgusting go to ward council or PEC, but everyone else seemed to love it.

Or as Joe Dirt would say, "I got the poo on me!"

William Law Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There was another thread about PEC, and I almost
> responded, but thought I would be misdirecting the
> thread. I would like to hear what others
> experienced, so let me know.
>
> I used to go to PEC (Priesthood Executive Meeting)
> often when I was a member of the church, and I
> always hated it. PEC is a meeting with the top
> leaders on the ward level. It's a meeting of self
> importance where everyone spends time making fun
> of the downtrodden in the ward.
>
> There were times when the bishop, the quorum
> presidents, and RS president would spend most of
> the meeting mocking the poor, the socially
> awkward, and the mentally ill of the ward.
>
> What's been your experience with PEC and other
> meetings?

--------------------------

Without wanting to split hairs this sounds more like Ward Council meeting if the RS President was in attendance. PEC (Priesthood Executive Meeting) is for penishood holders only.

That said, I have attended many of both meetings over the years & my experience was much the same as yours. Widespread discussion of members personal issues, infront of peripheral ward leaders that didn't need to know about these issues. Even worse when the auxiliary heads couldnt make meeting and so a 1st/2nd counsellor or secretary would attend the meeting in their place.

One of my most memorable memories of ward council was when the Bishopric had us all brainstorm to think of 5 less actives that we could work on/harass! One name was put forward by a home teacher with the warning "If Brother X he knows he has been turned into a project, he will not be interested".

He said this with a straight face, while suggesting Brother X should become a ward project for reactivation lol

"Without wanting to split hairs this sounds more like Ward Council meeting if the RS President was in attendance. PEC (Priesthood Executive Meeting) is for penishood holders only."

You're right about the make up of the meeting.

I count that as a positive me for that I have been out for long enough that I get the two confused.

I'm forgetting Mormonism!

it could have been welfare meeting. As rs pres. I had to attend welfare meeting.

Being one of the poor in my ward, I didn't hear what you were talking about. Either they kept it private for pec meetings only or that didn't happen for the 16 or so months I was rs pres. as I would have noticed and been very pissed off.

There was one guy who at church was called 'bubba'. When the bishop did that, I told him that was rather disrespectful and inappropriate to demean a person that way. If his close friends called him that, that was their business, but as a church leader that's disgusting. Or so I think. I was rs pres. at the time, so I could say it to the bishop without sounding like I was telling him off.

people seemed to have basically good intentions, but it was STILL none of their business and they had no right to air other people's dirty laundry. I knew, even then, that they weren't doing those people ANY good, and had the potential to hurt them.

No sense of boundaries.

And yes, this was something that didn't set right with me.

This would make them feel they're showing love and concern and they rack people over the coals.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2013 02:28PM by Cheryl.

Ha! That was entertaining.

If the 'down-trodden' were in those mtngs.... many/most would flee like rats/sinking ships!

THEY ARE THE WORST, and MoMism can't/won't change them!!

I honestly don't remember which meeting it was (ward council or PEC), but my red-necked bishop had the following memorable observations to share:

"So-and-so is shacking up with "so-and-so" - we've got to take some action about that." Some of us turned red at that kind of candor, to which his first counsellor grinned and added, "Well, that's what it is."

In another meeting, the same bishop said, "I can tell a fairy from far off. I can tell when they walk in the room."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. I was sitting right beside him.

When someone goes out of his way to say something homophobic like that I feel sorry for him. Imagine all the loathing and self hate he has to endure to cover his secret.

Besides, I bet what he was really thinking was how badly he wanted to put his hand on your leg. :)

HIS hand on MY leg??
What a repulsive thought!

I only participated in one ward, where the Bishop was a pretty decent guy, actually the ward leadership was pretty decent. There was not a lot of gossip etc. But I did feel uncomfortable, most of what I remember was discussing how to allocate funds and supports to some families that had joined the church or were investigating. It was pretty clear to most of us that these families had basically joined to get church welfare and services. Very awkward because you want to be a good Christian, but some of these moochers were really blatantly working the system.

There were in that ward 4 or 5 woman who were awful, gossips, evil back-biting nasty b___ches. I always hated fast and testimony meeting, knowing that these ladies would get up and give a show.

BG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> There were in that ward 4 or 5 woman who were
> awful, gossips, evil back-biting nasty b___ches.
> I always hated fast and testimony meeting, knowing
> that these ladies would get up and give a show.

THE WORST of this sort is that... they'd Nearly Always Eyeball the people they were talking about in F&T... while they were
giving their Laundry List of problems. WORSE than being in the Death Chamber, FGS!

some of these people (women) would give the Big show-hugs in the hall-ways, but Stink-Eye when no one else was around...

Back in the days when I was still attending the Mormon church as a non-believer, the hood-of-priests, hoping to reform my thinking, gave me a safe ward postion: primary pianist.

Unfortunately I had to attend the primary president circle meetings (Its been long enough that I no longer remember the offical jargon within the church, but you get the picture).

They would meet to discuss the primary aged children and how they could "help" the children of the less active. Under the pretext of Gods work, they would discuss all the "damaged" children with a sactimonious glee. I would try to defend these kids the best I could (having come from a similar sinful family). Their conclusions about the kids were so off base and wrong. But I was merely the pianist.

This kind of culture creates fear. Who wants to be at the bad end of the stick where God not only encourages, but gives his almighty blessing to gossip about other peoples children.

00101 -- you are much more eloquent in writing than I am. This is probably what I am trying to say, but it comes across as anger when I write it.

This line nails it: "Under the pretext of God's work, they would discuss all the "damaged" children with a sanctimonious glee. I would try to defend these kids the best I could (having come from a similar sinful family). Their conclusions about the kids were so off base and wrong. But I was merely the pianist."

I felt bad for people down on their luck and was shocked at how they were talked about under the disguise that it was somehow their business to know and their duty to correct. As if they knew all the answers for everyone else.

Unfortunately, I have even seen open, mocking laughter about others misfortunes and circumstances--or even just living life differently. They felt it was fodder for gossip and needed correction because god had placed them over others in their area. Makes me a little sick still.

And, I think outsiders should know. Too many people in the wards, especially those deemed to have such problems, will never know how they are seen and spoken of from the inner-sanctums of the church house. If it was common knowledge, I can't imagine anyone wanting to be part of that church.

I got so sick and tired of having to sit in PEC meetings and listen to them spew their crap about other people. To liven things up I would let go a really stinky and silent fart. I was hilarious to watch the other people in the room give each other the "stink eye" - literally!

The behavior you describe is actively, openly aggressive. "Passive" is the opposite of "active," and "passive-aggressive" means lashing out at someone by what you DON'T do. An easy way to remember this is basically that if there is any identifiable, active behavior, it CANNOT be described as "passive-aggressive."

Open or aggressive behavior would be looking the victim in the face and accusing them of being weak and sinful.

A few months back, Serena started a very helpful thread about the differences between passive-aggression and covert aggression:
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,873760,873760#msg-873760

"Relational aggression, also known as covert aggression, or covert bullying is a type of aggression in which harm is caused through damage to one’s relationships or social status."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relational_aggression

Rick Ross has some interesting information about tactics that the various types of aggressive personalities use:
"Playing the Servant Role - Covert-aggressives use this tactic to cloak their self-serving agendas in the guise of service to a more noble cause. It's a common tactic but difficult to recognize. By pretending to be working hard on someone else's behalf, covert-aggressives conceal their own ambition, desire for power, and quest for a position of dominance over others."
http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing11.html

For Mormons, is there a more "noble cause" than serving other members in a calling that The Lord himself hand-picked them to do? How could talking about others behind their backs and revealing information that is not theirs to tell possibly be anything but loving when their intentions are to selflessly help and serve? <sarcasm>

Once people know something about another ward member, it's impossible to UNknow that information. It often changes the way that person is viewed. In a few months (or years) time, the peopls will be released from their callings, but they will still know that information. Why is it necessary to share details or even mention the general topic of the problem someone is experiencing? Why not just say, if saying anything is absolutely necessary, that The Jones family will need some meals taken in for the next few months or need some extra visits?

This thread reminded me of a conversation with a relative-by-marriage who was in our stake and, incidentally, a huge gossip. She pulled me aside at a family event to ask if my best friend in the ward was getting counseling for her marriage problems. I was shocked this not-even-in-our-ward woman knew anything about it because my friend had told no one but me what was happening behind closed doors. She had told me she was considering talking to our bishop to get his input, but she was embarrassed and also concerned about becoming grist for the ward gossip mill.

I acted like I had no idea what the gossipy woman was talking about and asked her where she was getting her information. She reminded me that her mom was the Stake Relief Society President and said that the Ward RSP had called her mom. My reply was, "Okay, but why do *you* know about it?" It didn't even faze her that I was pointing out that she had no business knowing this very personal information, that she had no (made-up) "stewardship" over our ward. I have no doubt it was a regular event for the Stake RSP to gossip with her daughter about information confided by members to all the Bishops in the stake. This happened in California, not the Morridor.

I had no idea when I was a fully active TBM. I just noticed things were often chilly when I tried to intermingle in the ward. I couldn't sit with them at Ward dinners. I wasn't asked to help out cleaning up in the kitchen or participate in programs. I wasn't asked to give talks. Someone else was always asked to take the girls to camp, when I had been a camp director and was an active Girl Scout leader! I'd been a Spiritual Living teacher and after I gave one lessson while the regular teacher was out of town, I never gave a lesson in RS again. EVER.

"And, I think outsiders should know. Too many people in the wards, especially those deemed to have such problems, will never know how they are seen and spoken of from the inner-sanctums of the church house. If it was common knowledge, I can't imagine anyone wanting to be part of that church."


This was my life behind my back!!!!
I never knew. I just felt invisible walls in the society of the town. The leaders who seemed so fun and active would draw back if I tried to carry on a conversation, let alone initiate a let's-get-together-for-lunch date.

My children are now telling me the things the adults would say to them and about them in front of their peers.

A lot of the couples who were the same age group as my husband and I had been in on the ground floor to get a house built for them. They had lucked out because the builders were in town and were willing to stay on and build a few private homes when they were done with their company buildings. Those mocking members of mine would have been living in manufactored homes too!

Oh, the airs they put on! I shrugged them off because I came from a more prosperous family. The townspeople never knew the several square foot home my parents lived in in Sacramento; four bedrooms, three car garage,covered patio, two and a half bathrooms and a full 9 foot deep in the ground swiming pool! My parents paid it in full before they retired too.

So here my "ward" was backstabbing me all the time. Nothing I told the BP and RS was private or presented in any way but a judgemental way. So silly. That town thinks I'm the trailer trash. But they were behaving like the worst trash you have ever heard of! Lying and backstabbing.

Saddest thing is, that town was the closest to having a "home town" I ever had...and it was a bunch of roosters crowing on top of a dung hill!

I'd just like to point out that women have no right to comment on the Priesthood Executive Committee...

They have no right? You have no right to tell them what they have the right to do or not do. Notice that ward council is essentially a PEC clone with women attending, so they can (and have been) adding valuable experiences that are analogous to the PEC experiences.

Stay Alert! : Sarcasm.

Poe's law?

Remember the movie with Bill Murray, when he was trapped reliving the same day over and over again? That was my experience in PEC. The bishop would bring up the same inactive people and certain PEC members would make the same comments. I kept thinking, "if you really want to know these people and their circumstances, just make an appointment to visit them personally."

This was in 2003, just as I was awakening from my TBM trance.

TGIF

Yes, Groundhog Day! Great analogy! Many times I would look around the room during PEC at everyone agreeing with each other over the same topics discussed every week and thought, "Am I the only one in here that realizes that we already discussed this?"

I used to board with a bishop and his family in my late teens. Bro and Sis Bishop used to put sh!t on ward members all the tome around me and their teen kids.

Some years back when I was tbm I was in a ward that had for a brief time a good man as a bishop. He didn't let people be trash-talked in meetings. I was the RS Pres. at the time, and was in fact invited to PECs along with the Welfare and WC meetings. When he wasn't in town, or was ill, and his counselors ran the stupid meetings the trash talk would start. I was one of the "poor"; divorced mother of 3 small children, and living on the razor's edge financially. So...one WC the whole group was sitting around 4 long tables put together. Not everyone could really see each other. And the stupid jerk who was the "ward mission leader" started trash-talking me. Saying about how he couldn't understand how I was being "tolerated as the RS Pres. since I was such a poor example of womanhood for divorcing her husband and thinking she can raise children alone..." The silence around the table got really deep and he didn't even clue in. Since no one answered he went on quite a tirade. Finally someone shook themselves out of the stupor and went on to the next topic, which also derailed pretty fast to gossip. Finally, there was something that I made a contributing comment to, and Bro. Jerkface WML turned to listen and his jaw dropped. I don't think he'd known I was there. Then, typically, his initial embarrassed response turned to typical holier-than-thou mormonism and he got a snooty look on his face and negated my comment and said "well, Sister 4ofusfamily, you clearly don't have enough information to make a well informed comment, and since you don't have enough income to participate in said activity you have no way of knowing if it is an appropriate use for ward funds." Ugh. What a jerk.