It seems unbelievable how thoughtless and cruel TBM's can be. My wife of 52 yrs just underwent emergency heart surgery lasting twelve hours.I'm sitting in the "ICU" as I write this. She was given less than a 50% chance of survival. She is now in recovery with a long way to go. She is in a great deal of pain and experiencing many complications.
She is a "TBM" married to me a "fallen" former "TBM". Half of our children no longer believe, but she and I have been able to maintain a strong loving marriage in spite of Church issues. However several "TBM" relatives have taken the occasion to bare their testimonies to let me know that if she survies, it is to wake up the non-beiving family members and get us back on the right track and that she is willing to go through this to save the rest of us non believers.
Of course if she has a positive outcome it will be because of their faith and prayers and if not it will be because of the lack of faith and belief of the non-believers and our unwillingness to soften our hearts.
It's seems particularly cruel to be subjected to that kind of reasoning while suffering through such intense sorrow, anxiety and worry. I've said nothing in defense since the last thing needed is an argument. After all they think they are offering comfort besides I have a hard time saying anything because of emotion.
So glad you are there for your beloved wife - 52 years - it must be so painful to be around such a*** s posturing rather than meeting you holding you upholding you- for the beatiful beautiful love you are showing your wife
so I am upholding you- I agree- such useless unloving unsupportive people should be well never get to push the button to visit you helping loving your wife in ICU-
What is it dimwit stress response to hit the hurting the fallen warrior stomp on the ground like a Mormonic king of the hill? Seriously? What inherent flaw, what primal gnawing animalistic streak would EVER make a mormon sister or mormon priesthood holder speak like an animal, act like a barbarian visiting a hospital? &, more animal like, more primative still- be so unaware they are speaking like a glowering animal fangs bared with hostility at someone's ICU bedside to the only person that long by their side 52 year supporter and lover. And they call themselves 'religious' fang baring smile speaking with hostility pouring through them- persecuting the long loving husband
as he stands loving his suffering struggling wife.
Shame on them. How dare they act that way- so so primative. So disturbing that mormon visitors would DARE insult your this way.
I hope this night sees you well and the moonlight clouds and sunrise holds you & your beloved wife well. All respect to the long love held between you may every joy rise up to greet you where ever you go.
My husband hates when I say this one phrase, he says it carries blame or judgement and he doesn't like it fore me to be tht way- but- those hell hounds have no business besides your wifes' bed and acting as hell hounds bringing chaos not love hateing words and strife not comfort into your life- those hell hounds have no place nor part in your wife's sufferng nor your loving and helping and hoping beside her tonight. I like the word hell hound it really says it, doesn't it? My hsband says I am too judgemental, I haven't walked in their shoes, they may be emotionally and spiritually retarded, developmentally delayed, intellectually disabled an that's why they're being such an a**.
When will people realize that their religion has NOTHING to do with someones illness? It's so cruel to attach the two, and then use it to beat everyone over the head with. Especially when what they need is comfort, support, and help.
Take good care of yourself. I'm thinking of you and your wife. Hope you both come through this with flying colors.
I wonder how people rectify the failure of a prayer in their mind. Obviously this situation is a catch 22. If it works it's because they believed. If it fails it's because you didn't believe. If prayer and fasting was so fantastic, why did your wife even bother going to the hospital? I don't think TBM's get that.
I won't talk to my hands for you, but i hope you're able to find some comfort in this thread.
When I had cancer, I had mormons asking me what I had done to deserve it. I had more than one person give me a speech about my lack of faith, or I would have been healed. I was blamed and accused of bringing cancer on myself. This was by people who knew virtually nothing about me.
I learned really fast to stay away from those nut cases. Nothing made me feel worse than going to church.
I recovered. It wasn't long after that I left mormonism. They are toxic.
The whole TBM response is to make you feel guilty. How on EARTH could a loving God make your wife so ill, to get YOU to return to Church. It beggars beleif.
All my very best to you and your wife. I hope she makes a speedy and full recovery, and is able to be with the man who loves her dearly for many years yet. She is a very fortunate woman!! I am thinking of you!
Of all the times I've suggested using the following phrase, this situation has to be the most appropriate:
See, THIS is why no one respects Mormons. Because who says stuff like that? Worse, who really BELIEVES stuff like that? Why on earth would anyone want to join a church that honestly believed nonsense like that and encouraged/tolerate those kind of cruel beliefs?
Sweetie - I hope your wife makes a brilliant recovery. She's so lucky to have you there for her and I am sending good thoughts/prayers/best wishes for her to get better. It's a tough thing to go through and I hope everything ends well and she's back on her feet, happy and healthy, soon.
Similar experience for me when my daughter had attempted suicide for the second time. Family members said to me that things would have gone better for her if there was a priesthood holder in the home. Here I was, the only one trying to find an emotionally safe place for her because chronic conflict with her devout mother made home emotionally unsafe for her. I am sure, I mean I have no doubt that I had my own faults in it too. I was getting subtle suggestions I was to blame from a lot of fronts suggesting that I force her home and pursuade her to talk to a priesthood leader.
I just had to shut down my emotion and plow forward, and do what I thought was right. I had to numb myself.
Recently when my dad mentioned it again I sunk into a depression, which I feel like I am coming out of now.
I blame the teachings and not the members, because if the teachings were true that would be the truth. There is this other existance that is far more important than ours here, so we sujugate the desires of this life for another more real existance. then we die and it's just over.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2013 07:36PM by extman.
A truly compassionate follower of Jesus would instinctively view a time of personal crisis and paid as a time for comfort, not a time for blame and an alter call.
I would be dishonest if I did not admit that I was a perpetrator of such cruelty myself when my neighbor's child drove his tricycle into the pool and drowned. He was in a coma and we were in the waiting room, waiting for a word of hope (there was none).
While my Catholic neighbor put her arm around the suffering mother, I lectured her on how she could only be certain she would see her child again if she accepted the gospel and had him sealed to her. Only when I saw the look on the face of the other neighbor did I realize how hideous and cruel my comments were as her child lay in the next room unconscious.
In doing my personal work, this was the most painful memory of my behavior as a Mormon and it took me years to forgive myself. After unpacking my feelings, I realized that I was just exploiting someone who was vulnerable, just like what the missionaries did to me.
It may be a consolation to realize that there is no more malice in these cruel comments than if they were being expressed by a parrot. Mormonism likes to pretend that random tragedies are, in fact, evidence of God's disfavor. This is contrary to the Bible (Job is most obvious example), but also the prophets have had bad things happen to them.
Why isn't God protecting Thomas Monson's brain as he leads the church? Why didn't God prevent Ezra Taft Benson's senility and why did he not keep his grandson in the church. Guess he wasn't worthy enough in spite of a lifetime of service and status as a prophet.
Also puzzling - why didn't God just cure Moses' speech impediment instead of having his brother speak for him?
And how come Virgin Mary didn't rate a miraculous conception instead of having HF screw her like a nasty pedophile, since he was his daughter?
Finally, last but not least, how come Jesus, his own SINLESS son have to be tortured to make up for everyone else's sins when God could have waved his magic sin-forgiveness wand and granted everyone's forgiveness as a reward for Jesus' life of righteousness?
Clearly, Mormon finger-pointing at those who suffer is projection of the enormous burden of guilt put on them by their religious leaders.
I've done similar things, that is why it is hard not to be mad at them without being mad at myslelf. I forgive them for it, I forgive myself for it, and even though you don't need it I forgive you. Your words on this board are wonderful. We are all fallible human beings trying to figure out how to make things work.
Excellent point and I appreciate your forgiveness.
A big part of healing is recognizing our own cult behavior and naming it, taking responsibility so we can stop projecting it and hating it away from ourselves.
We were also perpetrators, missionaries, leaders, members, testimony-bearers. We were "the church" when we were in it.
"Religion as Emotional Blackmail" was an article in the current issue of Free Inquiry. How appropriate since so many of us experience that on a daily basis. It is hateful and abusive for anyone to use this tactic, so I am sorry you got a dose of it. Too bad you can't tell those who employed it to stick it where the Sun don't shine. No one should have to put up with that kind of shirt at a time like this. Or if you feel up to it you could let them know how unhelpful their sentiments are when you are dealing with enough pain as it is.
May your wife have a speedy recovery, and may you have many more happy years together.
So So sorry you have to endure their terrible cruel manipulation during this difficult time. Can't they see that they way they are treating you is only going to further alienate you and reinforce how harmful their belief system really is? I know that very few people leave the church due to being offended or treated badly--there are many more reasons to stop believing of course--but when they act that way, it certainly doesn't make anyone want to go running back! I hope your wife makes a quick and full recovery.
This breaks my heart. I can't imagine the pain that you're going through right now. It's so beautiful that you and your wife have been together for so long and I am praying for her recovery and your comfort. When my husband had a brain tumor, I was 6 months pregnant. A member of the church told us that God was obviously doing this because we needed to learn something. So stupid and absolutely heartless. I'm sorry that you're suffering. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
A couple of years ago I was the one living in the ICU waiting room after my husband's heart stopped. Here are a few tips.
Eat good food if possible. Light on the carbs and heavy on fresh fruit and veggies. Learn about the different places to eat, their hours and what they have to offer. Sleep where and when you can. Try to shower when you can. Keep a bag with books, phone charger, phone book. If you are living at the hospital include some clean socks, toothbrush, paste, deodorant and a ziplock with a couple of washrags. Your meds if you need them. Anything you leave in the car keep in the trunk. Know the parking laws. How often you need to move your car etc. Get outside when possible. If they don't have a garden walk around the building. She may stay calmer if you are there. They were able to cut Hubbys meds as long as I stayed right there so he didn't panic. Get a notebook and folder. Keep all your notes/handouts there. Collect business cards and write exactly who they are to you on the back.
LET PEOPLE HELP YOU.
I also had a run in with "well meaning" people. Not even LDSInc, Christian of some sort. Telling me if I went down to the chapel and confessed all our sins he would be healed. Well, didn't do that and he was back at work in 7 weeks. His mother went to hospice.
Remember there is always someone around the board with the time differences. If you need to talk we are here for you.
My TBM mother's reaction when she found out that my best friend had committed suicide: "This would be a great opportunity to introduce his [nevermo] parents to the gospel. They should be receptive to the message now."
My TBM aunt's reaction to a major medical issue I had a few years ago: "This is god's way of punishing you for not attending church anymore."
I definitely understand your frustration with the insensitive comments. Sending good wishes your way...
It is abuse. I think you should tell them so. All those "trials" and deaths the early saints went through - they were being punished? Tell them straight out that was an unkind, in Christian thing to say and your WIFE doesn't deserve such treatment. Say that such thought are not welcome or helpful at this time. What idiots! Makes you hate religion! One day someone they care about will be hurt, too.
Prayers and best wishes for you and your wife. That's a long and beautiful partnership.
I would be very firm, even angry with them. Look them in the eye when you speak. "You are entitled to your beliefs but I will thank you to keep them to yourself. Keep your nose out of our marriage and knock it off!"
This is a major boundary violation. Treat it as such.
My prayers and best wishes go out to you both. I do hope that she prevails.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2013 06:01PM by summer.
Oh my gosh! Such mo abuse usually spoken in the sweetest tones of voice are still just emotional abuse. It is not your fault, your wife did not agree to suffer to bhe mo cult. ring u back to the cult. And if things dont go well, it is not your fault. The whole idea of it makes me so mad! It is the same blame I experienced through my divirce from an abuser who later tried to kill me. I cant tell you how many times. I was told suchhorrible things such as "u must not have been living a good enough life or these things would never have happened to you.". This is abuse ...pure and simple...by peopke who dont think before speaking. Im sorry they are increasing your pain during this painful time.
I were there I would give you a hug! You dont deserve their kind of caring, which is sad and cruel. I hope that your wife makes it through. How amazing, 52 years, an inspiration!
I'm sure your wife realizes how much you love her and are by her side. She knows her family loves her and after 52 years, she has to know you are her rock. You are the one by her side.
Thank you for the support and kind words. She is slowly getting stronger and better. I'm feeling good about her chances and am very greatful for skilled medical professionals and top notch facilities. The support of family and friends is priceless.
Even the misguided "TBM's" mean well they're a little bit like being hugged by a porcupine. I remind myself it,s not about me its about my wife and she shares their faith, but not their insensitivity.