So, me and my TBM/Doubting/Questioning DW recently had twin girls; they are six months hold...My niece and nephew ages 5 and 11 respectively came over and while my mom was changing the twins diapers they were standing there just talking to my mom or whatever.

My DW leaves the house to go to a meeting and then I get this long string of text messages. I won't put the exact text, but here's the gist of what she says:

"Tell niece and nephew they don't need to watch your mom changing girls diapers...I'd like to ensure our girls modesty and privacy is managed...I had the same conversation with nieces and nephews on my side...it bothers me they both had to hover over your mom and watch"

Is this normal OR is this a result of her mormon programming? Do others out there get bothered if a niece/nephew happens to be there when their infant/toddler is getting their diapers changed?

I wouldn't say it necessarily is mormon programming. The modest word is a flag, but not the fact that she used the word privacy. Some people don't care, some people do. I know plenty of mormons that couldn't care less, they have way too many kids around to not have them hovering. But if it's important to your wife that your infant daughters have privacy when having their diapers changed, I wouldn't say it's worth a fight. If she tries to impose radical modesty on them in the future, then I'd definitely speak up.

this is perverse. I don't know if it's a Mormon thing, I doubt it, it sounds like a personal thing. What she sexually abused as a child? I don't really understand how someone could make the mental leap that a baby's diaper being changed could somehow be immodest to the BABY.

Please, whatever you do, refuse to tell your niece and nephew to stop being around when diapers are changed. Those kids likely think nothing of it and they will begin to wonder if naked babies are somehow a sexual taboo. Don't go there with them, don't lead them down the same mental path of perversion.

There is nothing wrong with changing a diaper. There is nothing wrong with seeing a diaper changed. Please do explain to your wife that changing a baby's diaper is not a sexual act, not an exposing act, and will in no way endanger the modesty of the babies. Your wife is sexualizing her infants.

Gross. Sorry to say that but seriously, gross.

Wow, tell me how you really feel...just kidding, I'm actually in agreement with you.

I thought it was weird that she somehow thought my niece/nephew were 'checking out' the twins while they were getting their diapers changed...kids are generally innocent and don't think in such odd terms...same thing with race, until you point out to a kid that the other kids in school have different skin color than them, they probably don't even think anything of it.

Anyway, I did talk to my mom about it but not to my niece/nephew. I think it's a pretty odd & extreme position to take but at the same time I do have to respect the wishes of my DW with respect to our kids.

I'm glad you weren't upset with me. I didn't mean anything against your wife specifically as a person of course. I've got little kids too and I just don't know *what* I would do if someone acted like their diaper changes were indecent!

It's just such a strange scenario. I could possibly understand it for the imagined modesty of the older children, but the baby? So very odd. Kids certainly may look when diapers are changed, children are curious. But I guess there's the Mormon influence, curiosity about the body must be crushed in all instances. I'm glad you're not gonna talk to the kids about it, that's just way too weird. How on earth does your wife think children who serve as baby sitters manage? Does she think that baby's are having their modesty violated by diaper changes? More likely, some sort of hidden personal issue is surfacing in this instance.

Best of luck to you, having a Mormon spouse is certainly a trip...

I think her attitude is weird.

I think her attitude is weird too. They are babies. That is crazy talk and seems perverted to me someone would even formulate a care in the world about changing a diaper with a niece and nephew around. Waaaay over the top and odd on their part. If I were that email texter I would be embarrassed at such strangeness as to consider it an issue.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2013 01:28PM by snuckafoodberry.

well, yes, I think its a bit extreme of a reaction... BUTTTTT (yes, thats a big butt)...

there's been a few times when I've been changing my sons diaper out in the open and one of my nieces comes over and just STARES at his junk... its a bit uncomfortable and wierd. So, maybe your niece or nephew was staring a bit? idk. I just know that its happened to me. It didnt make me send out a modesty text or anything, I still change him in the open. I could see how it might influence someone that way though.

If a child has been so repressed that nudity = bad, dirty and dangerous, I can see how first glimpse of a baby boy's dangly bits might be fascinating. "Wow, it looks like THAT???" I would have addressed the staring though, talked to her about it, what's appropriate and why, etc.

Now for the OP. I'd frame it like this: The neice and nephew might be in a position to have to change diapers themselves, especially if they babysit or end up babysitting in the church nursery. And yes, boys babysit sometimes too. I would teach them how to change diapers, or even let them do it with your close supervision. That way you get some little helpers, you teach them how to be good babysitters, and you de-sexualize the situation all around. It's just older people taking care of baby people.

Your DW has a serious problem. That is creepy. I don't think there's any reason for kids to be clothed or keep their bits covered until they WANT to. There comes a certain age when a child starts caring about being nekkid in front of people. My nephew hit that stage around 5, but every kid is different. When the kid wants privacy, that's when they should get it.

yeah, totally. I definitely think it was because my nieces had never seen a penis before. BUT, it was still strange/uncomfortable. Since I understood WHY though, I still change him out in the open and they have gotten more used to it as time has gone on.

I didn't feel the need to sit down and have a "boys have different parts than girls" chat... I'm sure my sister dealt with that when the questions started rolling in after my visit ;)

That is weird. What is your wife going to do in two years when your daughters strip naked and start streaking all of their own volition?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2013 03:01PM by tmac.

Next: In vitro modesty

censored ultrasounds!!

If the mother is that concerned about "modesty" for a baby, she needs to take care of the child herself so she can control the diaper changing. She certainly cannot dictate to others re: her extreme concerns about modesty during diaper changes.

I don't know what she is so afraid of.

marriedtoexmo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, me and my TBM/Doubting/Questioning DW recently
> had twin girls; they are six months hold...My
> niece and nephew ages 5 and 11 respectively came
> over and while my mom was changing the twins
> diapers they were standing there just talking to
> my mom or whatever.
>
> My DW leaves the house to go to a meeting and then
> I get this long string of text messages. I won't
> put the exact text, but here's the gist of what
> she says:
>
> "Tell niece and nephew they don't need to watch
> your mom changing girls diapers...I'd like to
> ensure our girls modesty and privacy is
> managed...I had the same conversation with nieces
> and nephews on my side...it bothers me they both
> had to hover over your mom and watch"
>
> Is this normal OR is this a result of her mormon
> programming? Do others out there get bothered if
> a niece/nephew happens to be there when their
> infant/toddler is getting their diapers changed?

this is NOT NORMAL. naked babies are not sexualized in normal society.

however, it might be something other than mormonism. victims of sexual abuse have weird feelings come up when they have babies, they may be over-protective about their kids innocence when they have kids. some have trouble taking a rectal temperature or breastfeeding. you never know.

I think it's not only weird, but dangerous. Kids are and should be curious about the world. Thinking that seeing a perfect little baby is somehow embarrassing or shameful is so sad. I wish more people would be exposed to the normalcy of the human body without making it sexual or forbidden. Being around babies, animals doing regular animal things (eat/poop/mate), little kids who don't know any different (it's hot, I think I'll take off my clothes) is a good way to develop a sense of comfort with the human body.

Yeah, I'm definitely a bit floored by this...I'm not going to argue about it with her too much, but part of me just wants to say 'Come on man, they're just babies...this isn't a strip club.'

Not worth getting in a fight over at this point, but I definitely think we need to have a conversation about our definitions of modesty and how we want to apply those to the girls; this is just too weird for me.

Children are naturally curious about what the human body looks like, and also about how babies get changed. I wouldn't consider it odd at all if a child wanted to watch a baby's diaper being changed.

However, given the mom's feelings, I would accommodate her on this issue.

To me there is nothing more beautiful than a naked baby, not sexual, just beautiful. I often lay my babies on a clean nappy (diaper) and let them kick without a nappy for a while. They loved it. If another child came in (mine or a neighbours child), it was a good lesson in the 'difference between boys and girls', I didn't worry.

There is something worrying your wife, and I feel it would be good to talk it out with her. She is obviously feeling very anxious.

this is Related To moms telling previous children that 'there's a baby in Mommy's Tummy'

one child asks: "Did mommy eat the baby?"

I've lurked on FMH before, and there have been comments about TBMs enforcing the idea of modesty on babies and toddlers. For example, toddlers in sundresses, toddlers in two piece bathing suits, a one year baby in a diaper on a hot summer day....

So, acting like it's evil for babies and toddlers to expose skin is seemingly common in TBM-world nowadays.

We recently had a family party in which a recent relative ended up supervising my two boys along with her daughter while they were playing outside. It was nice to have some adult time indoors. Anyway, the kids ranged in age from 2-6, if I remember right.

A few days later, my mom (super TBM) called to tell me a "funny story". Apparently during this time my two-year-old son, who has been recently potty trained, decided he had to pee, pulled it out, and peed on the bushes. No big deal, really. I mean, he's two and he recently mastered the art of peeing on trees on a camping trip and he often has to do it when we are out and about hiking and whatnot and there are no toilets around.

So we kind of laughed about it, but then my mom said, "no, really, though, you need to talk to him about modesty: he did that right in front of the little girl!"

He's two! I mean, obviously we are working on appropriateness of situation so that when he's 15 he doesn't get arrested for indecent exposure, but right now I'm just happy he's not peeing his pants. But then, I'm coming from a place where my husband and I still sleep naked (and encourage our kids to do the same in the summer) and shower with the door open: our kids know that nudity is a non-issue between family members in the house.

IMO, the emphasis on modesty is a very Mormon thing.

When I was about ten, a friend's mother had a baby boy. Once when I was at their house, the father was changing the diaper and I was watching. I think it's totally normal for girls of my age at the time to be interested in tasks like that. But the father wanted me to look away from the kid. They were not Mormons, but seriously fanatical members of the Assembly of God.

About the same time (fourth grade), my friend's mother told my friend that if I didn't start wearing a bra soon, she wouldn't let us be friends anymore. I had reached puberty and was starting to develop, but that seemed pretty extreme to me. I did start wearing a bra some of the time in the next year, but it wasn't really necessary for a few more years. I chose it because at that age most of us girls were excited about maturing and doing more grown-up things.

Anyway, I agree that it's sexualizing infants, and even the children who were hanging around watching. Little kids seeing a baby changed are not thinking about the baby sexually. The mother's reaction actually put that idea into their heads when it wouldn't have been there before.

That is just stupid no matter who says it. Babies will be bare bottomed many times and all families need to tell their young kids that is just how it is and it is fine.