My TBM sister just sent me a link to some LDS guy's "therapy" site for same-sex attraction. She said she had two friends in her ward whose sons had come out, and she wanted to know what I thought. She said she wants to help but wasn't sure how (she's the RS president).

Here's the article she wanted me to read:

http://theguardrail.com/files/Understanding_Unwanted_Same-Sex%20Attraction.pdf

It's a bit long, but I read the whole thing, and I'm kind of glad I did. At first it made me angry, but it forced me to think things through and try to put them clearly and as unemotionally as I could. Here's what I wrote:

I just finished reading the article. I'll try to be as clear as I can. A few years ago when I was seeing a therapist, I talked to her about my own unwanted sexual desires and interests, and she said something that has helped me immensely: it doesn't really matter where it comes from; when something becomes eroticized in adolescence, it isn't going to go away. It just is part of you.

To me, it's irrelevant to try to find the "cause" of homosexuality. It is just who you are. I'm sure this Brother Robinson means well, but if you notice, the outcome he's recommending isn't a happy, heterosexual life; it's a life where young men have simply walked away from their sexual desires. The cold, hard truth for Latter-day Saints is that you have to make a choice: you commit to the gospel and sacrifice your sexuality (which generally means a lifetime of celibacy and an absence of all same-sex companionship and intimacy), or you walk away from the church in favor of your sexuality.

In short, the best you can hope for is to control your sex drive. Your sexual attraction isn't going to be transferred to women, and it isn't going to go away. In study after study, no therapeutic course has had even a small degree of success. Evergreen, which is the most well-known LDS program, has an 8% "success" rate, but all that means is that 8% of their subjects reported being able to control their same-sex attraction, at least in the short term (6-9 months). In the long-term, the "success" rate is near zero. I'm sure you're aware of the electrical-shock aversion therapy that went on until the mid-90s at BYU. All that accomplished was to scar men (literally) and make a lot of people really despise the church.

But suppose that a young man completes this program and manages to kill off his same-sex attraction. He's going to feel pressure to marry in the temple and have kids, and then it will be his wife who will get to live with a man who isn't attracted to her and doesn't find fulfillment in intimacy with her. I have a friend from my undergrad days who spent 20 years wondering why her husband didn't want her, why he didn't love her. He was everything she was taught to want in a marriage: a strong priesthood leader, a good father, a good provider. But he finally told her he's gay. He's never been attracted to her. She said that it was almost a relief to know, and he said he felt like he didn't have to pretend anymore. So, some 6 years later she's married to someone who isn't interested in intimacy at all, and she's miserable. One of my mission companions is literally drinking himself to death because he's in an unhappy marriage. His wife loathes him because he's gay, and he loathes himself probably more.

The other thing to consider is how the family deals with their gay children. When families are rigid and unsupportive, gay young men are 8 times more likely to commit suicide than those whose families treat them with kindness, love, and respect. Too many people see their gay kids as defective in some way. There literally is no place for homosexuality in the Plan of Salvation, so either there is something wrong with them, or Satan has got hold of them. Give this religious context, it's not surprising that most LDS families react rather badly when their children come out to them. Consequently, a huge percentage of adolescent male suicides in Utah are among gay young men. Whether we want to or not, the message we often give is that we'd rather our kids be dead than be gay.

Obviously, I'm coming at this from a different perspective, as one who gave up hope a long time ago that the church was true. I've gotten past the hurt and the anger, thankfully, but I see some things more clearly. One thing that has become very clear is that the church needlessly sexualizes a lot in members' lives. Ironically, the major focus on modesty and chastity has made us even more fixated on sexuality than we would normally be. I recently read an article in the Friend about a 4 year old girl choosing to be "modest" and not wear a tank top, which just floored me. Sexual development is hard enough without this unrelenting focus. It's doubly ironic because Joseph Smith was certainly much freer with his sexuality than church members are today.

Sorry, didn't mean to get off topic. The bottom line is this: do we as parents want our children to live their lives without real, loving relationships? Even if a gay member lives the letter of the law of chastity, he or she still cannot be affectionate with a member of the same sex, kiss, hold hands, and so on. And if our children don't choose that life of celibacy, will we still accept them and love them? I know it's become fashionable to say that God's love is conditional, but that's not what the scriptures say. You know as well as I do that we don't always agree with our kids' decisions, but we still love them.

I knew a BYU professor who was a stake president, and he counseled young men who were gay to accept who they are, and just try and find a committed, stable relationship. That wouldn't have gone over too well with the Brethren, but if one of my kids came to me and said they were gay, that's what I would tell them. Heavenly Father wants us to be happy. He doesn't want us to spend the rest of our lives in lonely celibacy.

I know, this probably isn't what you were hoping to hear, but these young men need to understand what the choice is: it isn't between having hundreds of sex partners and living a happy, married LDS life. It's between having real intimacy in your life and sacrificing it for the church. For some people the sacrifice is worth it. Even if I thought the church was what it says it is, I would still think the sacrifice is too much to ask for most people. I would instead teach young men about love and commitment, and try to help them become well-adjusted adults.

I've rambled long enough. I hope this helps, though I don't know how these boys' parents would react to what I've said. At the very least, please tell them that their kids are still the same kids they've always been, and they need the love and support of their families. Don't destroy your relationships with your kids because they aren't who you hoped they were.

I'm glad you sent this to me, as it has helped me think through my feelings and thoughts. I'm glad your ward has someone as thoughtful and loving as you to support people who are likely in a lot of pain right now.

Well done.

Off Topic of this thread, but On Topic as to the OP :-) :

I bought and read your book. Your writer's eye is incisive, your words are very well written, and your story was absolutely fascinating.

Thank you very much for writing this book.

Tevai

Thanks! I love getting positive feedback from the book. It makes me glad I wrote it.

What book?

Oh my gosh, squeebee, you have to read it. It's so good - especially if you served a mission. I'm one of runtu's biggest fans.

http://www.amazon.com/Heaven-Up-Here-John-Williams/dp/1105296946/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1376881311&sr=8-1&keywords=heaven+up+here

Thanks! Just loaded it on my Kindle.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2013 10:59AM by squeebee.

And so far it is GOLD, well done Runtu!

Beautifully written, truthful response.

I think I understand the "unwanted" part of "unwanted sexual attraction," but help me understand. Is the "unwanted" aspect from social conditioning and pressure? You've been indoctrinated to think SSA is bad, so even though you are attracted to the same gender, you believe you shouldn't be? If it's something other than that, then I guess I don't understand.

No, I mean that when I was a believer, my desires were unwanted, and it was clearly something I was conditioned to feel. My church taught me to hate myself.

I'm totally fine with who I am, though it obviously took a lot of years to get here. I was trying to put myself in the position of these LDS families, for whom I'm quite sure the same-sex attraction is unwanted.

I'm reading through the link runtu provided, and the author has peppered his paper with subtle jabs at gay men. The first comment he made was about it being "ironic" that gay men have a strong sense of right and wrong.

Tell us how you really feel...

"Sexual development is hard enough without this unrelenting focus."

So well-said! The crazy Puritan attitude that is so prevalent in the USA makes me crazy. It's OK to show an autopsy on prime time TV. It's OK to show murder victims drenched in blood on the latest crime drama. But if two people are having sex, it's a serious no-no. Heaven forbid it's 2 men or 2 women, or a threesome.

What this creates is an atmosphere where sex is forbidden, dirty, and shameful. And you're supposed to do it with the one you love. Only 1 person, by the way.

Look at the emotive words used.
struggle
unwanted
pain
anger
whirlwind
fear and confusion
tears of frustration
overcome this problem
anguish

First of all, it betrays the way Mormons are raised to feel about their sexuality. It's a shameful thing to be overcome and controlled. Sex is frustrating, and feelings of attraction are unwanted.

Second, imagine that the author were discussing "struggling with opposite sex attraction." How absurd would that be? Though appetites vary, a hetero man will never overcome his desire to have sex with women. A gay man will never overcome his desire to have sex with another man. Suppressing desire is not natural.

It is my opinion that religion is obsessed with controlling people. How do they accomplish that? Take natural desires, make them something shameful, and offer to help the member overcome that desire. The secret is, the member will never overcome that desire. And as long as the members believe that their desires are unnatural and that religion is the only rescue, they'll keep coming back for a beating time and time again.

Then we have all the societal pressure to live a hetero life. Every person has to get married and have children and stay in one spot for the rest of their lives. That's ridiculous. Not every woman wants to get married and have children. Not every man wants to be with only 1 partner his whole life. People who are forced to live contrary to their own nature go crazy. They will end up trying to find equilibrium, but their behavior will probably not be socially acceptable. They might end up cheating because staying in a dead relationship is so draining. (The ideal is to end the relationship before moving on, I realize. But not everybody lives the ideal life.)

This brings up another point. Monogamy just might not be natural. We might need different things out of our partners over the span of our lives. The perfect partner in our 20's might not still be the perfect partner in our 40's. Love is a relationship, just like many other relationships. Personally, I don't have the same friends I had in my 20's, or the same job. My friends from my 20's would not understand me now. I would never want to go back to the job I had in my 20's. I wouldn't even want to go back to the job I had in 2008. So what makes me think everybody is supposed to be with the same person they were attracted to at 19?

Silly Mormons!

T-Bone

You bring up a great point, T-Bone and that is that mormonism expects human beings to remain static throughout their lives. The choices and decisions you make for yourself at 20 are expected to still serve your needs when you're 40 or 50. People learn and grow and change -- we simply do not stop developing just because we reach adulthood. It just doesn't make sense to make a set of decisions about yourself and then never reevaluate if those decisions are still right for you 30 years down the road: with whom to pair up, where to live, how to live, what to do for a living, when to have children (not if), how many...

I don't know anyone who is exactly the same at 20 as they are at 40. A nevermo friend of mine once said, "The core essence of a person does not change -- you are who you are. But your needs and preferences and tastes may very well change as you learn and grow and gain new information about yourself and the world around you."

So it doesn't even make sense to expect that your needs will be ABC all your entire life and events and new information won't change those needs. Is there anything in this life that is completely static and never changes? Not even the mormon church!

I just went to the "Evergreen" webshite. I'm almost driven to tears with its tripe. Notice how they try to sugar-coat everything with a tone of love and understanding, which is utter bullshit and only serves to insult my intelligence. Let's replace some of the words, shall we?

"Everwhite was founded in 1989 as a non-profit education and resource organization by individuals who were experiencing unwanted interracial attractions (IRA) in their own lives.

Our unique Everwhite Partners programs feature a mentoring emphaisis that allows those who have actually been there to reach out and assist others who are new to the experience.

Mission Statement:

Everwhite is founded on the belief that the atonement of Jesus Christ enables every soul the opportunity to turn away from all sins or conditions that obstruct their temporal and eternal happiness and potential.

Everwhite attests that individuals can overcome interracial behavior and can diminish interracial attraction, and is committed to assisting individuals who wish to do so.

Everwhite provides education, guidance, and support to those involved in the transition from interracial attraction, and is available as a resource to family, friends, professional counselors, religious leaders, and all others involved in assisting individuals who desire to change.

Everwhite sustains the doctrines and standards of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints without reservation or exception, but is not affiliated with the Church. Everwhite welcomes all people who wish to participate in the pursuit of these goals.

Organization:

The Board of Trustees is the governing body of Everwhite International, Inc. and it is their responsiblity (sic) to see that the organization is run in a professional manner at the corporate level. Members of the board may include current and former participants in Everwhite programs, church leaders, mental-health professionals, and business or community leaders. The President of Everwhite directs the volunteer and full-time staff who supervise the work of the organization, provide program and participant support, handle public relations, plan various educational events, and diseminate (sic) important information related to interracial attraction growth."

Anyone with a functioning brain should be able to tell that this is blatantly racist. So why is the website not blatantly homophobic?

Sounds like a great place for you to meet people like you.

Being gay and truly who u are does not mesh with Mormonism...something has to give...and it won't be the church...get ur wits about u...find a good support group such as pflag...and get the hell out of church...its a cancer to your self esteem, self worth and dignity...and don't patronize It's nonsense...not even for a minute...that includes ur family...you don't owe them a damn thing... Your life is yours go live it and be happy...

Nice!

More and more people are realizing that same-sex attraction should not involve "struggle," especially not struggle to ignore it, or to delete it from one's life.

Quote below is from http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/08/gov_christie_set_to_sign_ban_on_gay-to-straight_conversion_therapy.html:

Gov. Chris Christie plans to sign a bill today barring licensed therapists from trying to convert gay minors into heterosexuals.
New Jersey will be the second state to ban the treatment along with California. …

In a signing note accompanying the bill obtained by The Associated Press that will be made public today, Christie says he believes people are born gay and homosexuality is not a sin. That view is inconsistent with his Catholic faith.

The governor also says the health risks of trying to change a child’s sexual orientation identified by the American Psychological Association outweigh concerns over the government setting limits on parental choice.

I agree it shouldn't be a struggle, but the reality is that, for Mormons and other religiously motivated people, it is a struggle between what you've had pounded into your head and who you are.

That's why I tried to couch my response in terms of how I would have felt as a Mormon dealing with these issues. It would be nice to wave a wand and say, "You don't have to feel bad about your feelings" and instantly have them feel fine, but it doesn't work that way. You have to accept yourself for who you are, and for an active, believing Mormon, that is going to be a struggle.

So, maybe it's not struggling with same-sex attraction, but struggling with the conditioned guilt and self-loathing.