Recently told parents I no longer believe and no longer go to church. Told them I no longer believe because of the BofA,JS rock in hat - treasure seeking, dishonest potrayal of church history, etc.

My dad has started writing me letters telling me of spiritual experiences he's had. Most of them are "I had a thought to do this" or "I had a warm feeling about this" in my opinion nothing special. Just got a letter from my sister, copy of her talk on faith she just gave last week.

I told my dad I'd write him back and I wrote up a huge letter but all the while getting very anxious and frustrated, feeling that I'm trying to defend myself. It has really made me upset that I'm put in this position. I felt these things when I first discovered all the problems with the church and though it took awhile I finally kind of got over them. But ever since these letters started coming in these feelings of anger towards the church have come back.

I need advice. I haven't sent the letter to my dad. I don't really want to because I feel it will get read over with the "my son is just in a stage that he needs to overcome" mind. Also not sure if I should write sister back but Her letter would be along the lines of if you want to know why I left I'm more than willing to discuss it with you just let me know.

What has worked for anyone out there?

What worked for me. Remember what is about me and what is about someone else. And what is nobody's business!!

I kept it: Simple. No letters/emails. No announcements,those invite an answer and I was not interested in going that route.
If I received anything I kept it simple, sticking to this kind of reply: thank you for thinking of me. I'm doing just fine. Hope all is well with your family.

I was not going to discuss any of it unless someone asked politely and then I only gave short answers, and referred them to a book or a web site. It was prefaced: IF you are really interested, you can find some info here....

I kept it within my family on a one on one basis.
Some had left before me for the same reasons: We didn't believe the claims and changed our mind.
There is always one, it seems, that is a pest and stinker and dumps garbage all over everyone. Usually that calms down.

I have written extensively about how and why Mormonism works for people and how and why it is so difficult to leave.

Rejecting the belief system is rejecting them personally.
My plan (after much trial and error - which I've also written about here) was to find out what worked.

In my case, with my now deceased husband, we "agreed to disagree" and I kept quiet about anything that would not go over well. I respected his right to his beliefs and he did the same for me.

I think many times, (I forgot this initially) we need to give people time, and lots of time, to adjust to us when we make major changes that have an impact on the entire family. We are upsetting the apple cart, so to speak and not everyone is interested in what is going on with us.

I had opportunities to challenge missionaries, (some were pests) and others that I wanted to use as an experiment to stir the pot. Most clammed up and shut up. :-)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2013 03:26PM by SusieQ#1.

I would send a copy of the ces letter. http://mormonthink.com/personalstories/A_Letter_to_a_CES_Director.pdf. It's pretty long so you could just pick out the most important bits to you. Someday when I get the balls I'm going to send it to my sister. I wish I would've had it when I first left & we were all still fighting about everything. Now the topic is dead in the water.

What the letter does is give them the facts. It also shows them you're serious & this isn't just a phase. One thing we had to do with my family is always be firm. Don't be wishy washy. Let them know you will NEVER be back. If they keep harassing you with personal experiences I feel it fair game to send them things from Mormon think. They'll get the message. Good luck!

rusty123 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What has worked for anyone out there?

In speaking to my brothers, sisters, and parents I realized that they weren't listening. They heard what I said but refused to believe me about what I was telling them about me.

So, I no longer speak to them. I got their message loud and clear. I'm to speak to them on their terms or I will be ignored. So I opted for ignoring them.

It hurts to realize that everyone in your family is in a destructive cult with no ties to the real world outside of their myopic cult world views.

If you can salvage some respect for you from them, maybe your letter writing it with it...

you have gotten some great advice here. All I can add is that you need to learn from Mormonism, don't EVER get into specifics. Any evidence you bring out after you say you are leaving will be dismissed, it will be proof that THEY are right. I have said this before- once you say I don't believe ,let me explain...its like them walking in on you dragging a dead body across the living room and looking up and saying- but I can totally explain this!

My suggestion, don't bother. Think about the possible outcomes:

It turns nasty- your fault, you are anti and have the spirit of contention
they dismiss your proof- they are right, you have been lied to by the devil
they listen, then condescend- they are the bigger person(s), they are right, you are just poor little teacup

in any case, mormons don't see evidence, they have so much 'faith", that they don't need any, they KNOW its true. I have heard Mormons say, and this shoes their mindset- even if Joseph Smith/Moroni, JC appeared to me and told me the church is false, I would not leave it, thats how much faith I have.

Pull your ass out of the religion talk. You have freedom of religion and you simply dont believe mormonism anymore. Thank your father for his opinions and tell him that you have not become a monster, but that you actually feel the gospel is true (being good, repenting, service, being kind, washing your hands), this will take him out of the mindframe that you are having anal sex with lucifer and puppies.

good luck.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2013 03:33PM by erictheex.

I have learned (sometimes painfully) there is nothing--NOTHING--that you can say that will change a devoted family member's mind or to get them to reconsider their views.

TSCC is all about cult-like group think. You have now gone to the Dark Side, and anything you offer will be refuted. (I think FAIRLDS exists to give convoluted answers that no one really understands, but that gives comfort to believers that smart people have thought about it and the bad guys are wrong.)

My advice: "Thanks for your concern. I'm doing great. I hope you are too."

What works for me is treating my religious beliefs, or lack thereof as the case may be, exactly like my sex life: it is none of my family's business. I also do not discuss how I vote or any form of politics with them. Politics, religion, my personal sex life -- all off the table.

Saves you a world of nightmarish conflict.

As for the letters they write to you, I recommend you don't even read them. Just toss 'em in the recycling bin and go about your business.

dogzilla Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What works for me is treating my religious
> beliefs, or lack thereof as the case may be,
> exactly like my sex life: it is none of my
> family's business.

Well, I hate hearing from them all about their religion and telling me that I should "go back."

I told my husband, bishop at the time, that he could not judge my reasoning until he read what I read. He read some and told me my reasons were valid. He said his spiritual experiences were too strong to deny but he supports me in my decision to deactivate myself from the church.

Rusty, SuzieQ has highlighted the 11th Article of Faith in previous posts (along with others)--allowing all the same privilege of worshiping how they may--and how one can ask the Mormon to please abide by it.

I say nip the letter writing and all the explanations in the bud. The day will never come when they accept your reasons as valid for leaving the church. Just let them know that you love them but you no longer believe and let it go at that or else you will be entangled in an endless torrent of arguing back and forth about them defending the Moronic church. They will never believe what you say.... just put a stop to it. If they can't accept that you chose not to believe in their religion, well there is nothing you can do about it.

I just ignore them.

I would respond to your dad (and others) with a generous spirit. Say, "I'm glad that you have had spiritual experiences and that your beliefs give you peace." I would say that people of many different denominations and faiths also have spiritual experiences that are personally valid and important to them, i.e. Jews, Hindus, Muslims, etc. I would tell them that Mormonism is not right for you but you respect that it may be right for them. Then remind them of their own 11th article of faith.

I would avoid arguing the facts with them.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would respond to your dad (and others) with a
> generous spirit. Say, "I'm glad that you have had
> spiritual experiences and that your beliefs give
> you peace." I would say that people of many
> different denominations and faiths also have
> spiritual experiences that are personally valid
> and important to them, i.e. Jews, Hindus, Muslims,
> etc. I would tell them that Mormonism is not right
> for you but you respect that it may be right for
> them. Then remind them of their own 11th article
> of faith.
>
> I would avoid arguing the facts with them.

It's amazing to watch how well that approach works!
Oh.. and you might include the 11th Article of Faith, most members probably can't repeat it.

:We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."

Okay thanks everyone. I've decided not to write my sister back. As far as my dad he at least knows a lot of the issues but still believes people leave the church because they want to sin. I've thought about asking him to watch John Dehlins 'Top 5 myths why committed Mormons leave the church' everything John says basically explains how I feel and why I left the church.

Any thoughts?

rusty123 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay thanks everyone. I've decided not to write my
> sister back. As far as my dad he at least knows a
> lot of the issues but still believes people leave
> the church because they want to sin. I've thought
> about asking him to watch John Dehlins 'Top 5
> myths why committed Mormons leave the church'
> everything John says basically explains how I feel
> and why I left the church.
>
> Any thoughts?

My advice: Leave your families beliefs alone. My guess: they only want to continue to bear their testimony over and over and over like you forgot!

This is how I do it: I respect and honor everyone's RIGHTS to their beliefs and how they want to live their lives. That is about them, not me. I don't much care what those beliefs are, and I am not much interested in sharing mine. I have shared a little, but even tid-bits can be a problem in a relationship.

Most of the time, strong believers will dig in, and shore up their testimony - think they are being tested by Satan, if you share anything.. and it goes downhill from there.

If someone has serious questions that are genuinely sincerely interested and have real concerns, I'll slowly find out what their weak spots are and make suggestions. Otherwise... they are not ready to hear anything. They will put their fingers in their ears and hum loudly to drown you out... if you get my drift!

It's a delicate situation. Be careful. That was you'll be able to save your relationships that are meaningful to you.

They are more likely to watch John Dehlin than read Mormonthink, as he is still a member. A lot of exmos have issues with John, but his work does form a bridge for communication with family that wont go near anything remotely "anti-Mormon". That is my experience with my TBM family anyway.

spanner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They are more likely to watch John Dehlin than
> read Mormonthink, as he is still a member. A lot
> of exmos have issues with John, but his work does
> form a bridge for communication with family that
> wont go near anything remotely "anti-Mormon". That
> is my experience with my TBM family anyway.


If you have an opening, it is possible that John Dehlin might offer some info that they can tolerate, depending on what it is.

Deleted (wrong spot)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2013 08:46PM by rusty123.

I have really good relationships with my family right now. Obviously I don't want to ruin any of them. It's just hard to not try and defend why I left the church. Because knowing my family they will think I left to become a sinner. I guess I'm just worried that they'll stop trusting me even when I continue to live a good and happy life.

I think the John Dehlin video is a good one to share.

They are bombarding you with examples of "spiritual" witness. We've been indoctrinated to just accept this instead of factual evidence. It's good enough for them, but some of us want more than feelings we could just as easily attribute to a lifetime of manipulative conditioning. Of course you can't say that. It would start a fight. This is their world view you're disrespecting.

You could just counter with your own spiritual witness. The Holy Ghost is telling you there is something wrong here. Tell them you believe you learned these things for a reason and feel compelled to act upon them. These things upset you emotionally as they did all of us. Why are the doubters emotions not valid?

It's wording similar to the Dehlin video. Doubters feel betrayed by their church.

the one last active mormon sibling in my family--besides my disabled brother. I told her yesterday I had resigned. We have been tentatively talking for about a year and I'm going to be moving in with my boyfriend into a house. I KNOW there has been talk within her family--so I wanted to set the record straight--that I no longer believed. I wasn't really happy with her first reply--that she goes for 2 or 3 reasons. One that she thinks it makes our parents happy (they passed away 4-1/2 years ago), that she wants her family to be together in the next life. Her kids are all inactive and have been since teens--as are her grandchildren. She then went on for quite a while about how sick the mormons make her and how she understands why I feel the way I do--and that she prefers to hang out with her nonmo friends she works with. She then followed that up with she believes our parents love us all equally and are happy with all of us.

NEVER would I have expected that.

But I felt the same way. I actually felt I said too much and I've been rather stressed about it today. It all worked out okay, but I did feel like I said too much. It doesn't seem to matter with most TBMs what you say--so like others have said, keep it short and sweet.

My history--they watched my life fall apart because of listening to the leaders--my parents listened and I can't believe it--so did this sister.

I would just say, "Thank you for your thoughts. Now that you've shared them, I ask that you now respect my choices, just as the second part of the 11th Article of Faith declares," and then list that part of the Article.

Trying to defend yourself will be a frustrating waste of time.

I don't get all of the advice to never argue or explain your stance. You just need to be tactful and not expect them to agree. If nobody ever expressed the reasons they left the church because they thought it was futile, I might still be in it.

If "thoughts" and "warm feelings" are your dad's standard for a "spiritual experience", then it's only a matter of time till you have an equally impressive collection of proof that LDSInc is a sham.

Make sure to report each incident to him in a separate e-mail.

I would spend hours and hours, and sometimes days trying to compose the perfect reply. Meanwhile, I was an emotional wreck, and unable to concentrate on things at home that needed my attention.

When I had had enough, I gave up on it. One time, after trying for days to respond to a 20-page letter from a sibling, I just gave up and called. I was scared to death. This sibling was pretty cool about it, and I basically addressed ONE aspect of the letter and we had an okay conversation. That would only work depending on your relationship, but to be honest, I didn't know that it would work.

So if you respond, maybe pick just one thing and ignore the rest. Focus on setting boundaries and letting them know that you love them, but you are strong in your decision and won't be bowled over:

"Yeah Dad, I know you love me are concerned for my welfare. I know you have a strong conviction of your beliefs. You have done everything you could to raise me how you thought I should be raised. However, I'm an adult now. I have my own thoughts and experiences, and I've studied this thoroughly. I'm solid in in my conclusions, and I have a strong conviction of MY beliefs.
I'd like you to stop sending faith-promoting stories. It will do nothing to convince me. People of every faith have similar stories and feelings about their religions."

But most importantly, you need to be able to be able to step back when you get a letter and realize that you don't have to let someone drop an emotional grenade on you. You don't have to open it if the timing is bad. And you don't have to respond. You might even consider just responding "I really don't have time to address this right now. Thanks for your concern."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2013 10:50AM by imaworkinonit.

I am learning the hard way to say very little and not contend. I was once so passionate for it and now I am so passionately against it. Wither it be missionaries or family,I like the answers above of keeping it short and expressing my happiness. Easier said then done. Smile

The problem I see is your reasons given for no longer believing are easily worked around by apologists to allow believers to maintain faith and make the unbeliever (you) bear the burden, when in reality the problem is with the church. People will always believe what they really want. For instance the BofA, people now say even though the scrolls don't mention Abraham, Joseph used the scrolls as a catalyst to receive direct revelation. Apologists will always find a way around historical issues and doctrinal problems, and your family wants you to accept these workaround explanations. This type of debate can go on for a long time. I really don't think there is a single smoking gun you can point to. There will always be a TBM who will maintain faith in the face of every reason not to. These historical issues should be only one aspect of your disbelief, but it is a good start.

I would tell them the case against the church is equally as strong (if not stronger) as the case for the church. The whole "faith - read - prayer - good feeling - therefore church is entirely true" method is extremely flawed. Take your time to stake out your position. Throwing historical issues at them can be effective, but may just encourage further back and forth discussions on details that are entirely subjective.

Faith is not a gift, it is a choice, often masking fear or willful ignorance.

Good luck. And remember they think they are helping you.

I wrote a lengthy letter to family and GA a year ago thinking it would give them insite into not just me but other people who have been hurt by the cult. I wrote it and let it sit and went back and edited it. I told my self to wait 30 days before sending.

I never sent it.

I realized that no better understanding would be accomplished. It was theraputic to write, but the mind controled thinking could not be changed. That hearts were hardened.

I made a choice to walk away form all. To put distance form family, church, ect. It was not an easy choice but I do not regret it. I've never been afraid to go on my own to think on my own. Not everyone is like me, maybe no one else would make that choice. But I felt there was a greater cause and that was to stop the abuse by the cult even if it was just for me and my children.

I chose this action because of the saying, "A picture is worth a thousand words". I chose that my actions would be my picture, my letter to sick social structure of TSSC, the final plea to those I love to love me back.

I have greaved with this choice and this change. I have also chosen to hope for a better place not just for me and my children but to be able to tell others in this world the truthfull intentions of mormonism. So far, all has been proven to be right and good.

I wish you well. May you find peace with this difficult but wise decision.

They are not asking you why you left, are they?
They are not asking any questions, are they?
It's a one way rant. NO reply is in order.

every one Mormon. Muslims pray all the time and they "know" the Koran is true. Similar story for Catholics, Hindus, Born Agains, yada, yada, yada. Everyone has faith, just in different things. There's nothing special or uniquely good about a mormon testimony. To think there is is the height of arrogance. Testimonies are a dime a dozen so if he wants to talk with you about mormonism then he needs to provide evidence that the church is true. You don't need to prove it false. He has to prove it true.