I'm the creator of FirstVisionTimeline.com. In my studies of the First Vision, there is no evidence that Joseph Smith reported the First Vision to anyone until 1832. Also, note that JS claimed he lived in Manchester when it happened, so if Holland said Palmyra he was mistaken. The Smith farm was literally on the border of Manchester and Palmyra though. JS claimed to have told people about it w
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Thanks for sharing this. This is amazing. Your FIL sounds like a true victim as we all are. Might I make a recommendation? Just as the church tries to inoculate members against the truth I'd recommend inoculating him against whatever the general authorities are going to tell him. They're going to go after him hard. He represents a lot of people.
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There was a fantastic post a few weeks ago about Michael McLean pulling similar nonsense at EFY The tl;dr is he would do the same rehearsed number each year and pretended to be moved upon by the spirit at a certain time to have everyone hold hands and sing "You're not alone". When one kid and his friend went to EFY two years in a row and saw McLean have the exact same prompting at t
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I'll second this. Mormons will amplify the errors she made which are relatively few. Probably the most obvious is her rampant speculation about Joseph Smith's offspring, many of which have been proven to be untrue. But keep in mind that she wrote the book before the Internet was a thing and DNA research was a thing. Yet her research brought to light dozens of uncomfortable truths about Joseph
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That's what she said.
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This seems O/T. If you need this question answered you should ask it in a new topic.
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Well, they are, depending on your definition of "leaving in droves". See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marlin_K._Jensen#Modern_apostasy But this article was taking advantage of the fact that exmos jump on that kind of news. The author offered no substantial evidence whatsoever that any of his claims were accurate. Just a bunch of "unnamed sources". I can write you a REALLY
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Please share with him http://firstvisiontimeline.com. This is not an anti-Mormon site - it is an honest history of Joseph Smith's First Vision that contrasts what JS claimed vs. what everyone else said. It is very well-sourced, mostly with original documents. Here are some questions you can have him answer in conjunction with this site: 1. Why does Joseph Smith say his family moved to Man
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People - the article was a load of horse sh!t. Don't waste your time. The author was trying to draw attention to his books.
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What's great is the comment section often devolves into apostates taking offense at various things from each article and TBMs trying to defend it and constantly playing the "left the church but can't leave it alone" card. And then the mods have to shut it down. It's too funny.
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I think that's enough for most people to conclude it was Elohim and Jesus, but if you asked William Smith, he certainly wouldn't have thought so. Strange how JS's own brother who was alive for all the visions and was an apostle couldn't even figure it out.
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In his 1832 account he says he saw The Lord, but all the other accounts just say two personages - a father and son. Most people that heard his story seem to have thought they were angelic messengers. I have to wonder if he was being intentionally ambiguous so as to let people think whatever they wanted.
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Is your "small computer" a touchscreen? When the screen size falls below a certain width, it becomes swipeable instead of clickable to advance left and right.
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I've debated back and forth on including stuff like that. Part of the problem is you have to answer the question: to what vision were they referring in those accounts? Sometimes it's clearly the 1820 vision, sometimes it's clearly the 1823 vision, and sometimes it's completely ambiguous. Since this site is primarily focused on the history and evolution of the First Vision, it's sometimes hard to
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I've toyed with the idea of registering a general Mormon timeline domain and doing just that. I think /u/mithryn over at that other ex-Mormon site (mastermind behind Exploring Mormonism) has a bunch of timelines that would work really well there.
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Awesome, please do!
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The good news is you can learn about the multiple versions on LDS.org now. Of course they out their spin on it to try and inoculate the reader. I was much more troubled by the inconsistencies in the timeline than the inconsistencies in the story JS kept telling. It's pretty hard to explain away all the historical records I've linked to on the site.
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Care to be more specific?
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Well sheeit, I don't know how I didn't see the 1841 Wm. Smith account prior to you pointing it out. That is extremely valuable. Thank you!
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I got the William Smith account in there. I've debated on including things like Bauder's interview since he doesn't refer to the First Vision at all, just the Moroni experience. It doesn't really help establish the timeline, even though it is valuable information that challenges JS's story. And as far as I've read, Lucy never knew there was anything other than a visit from Moroni. Does she talk a
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http://firstvisiontimeline.com When I first discovered that there were inconsistencies in the story Joseph Smith told of his first vision, I began researching as much as possible on the subject to get the real story. This site is the result of my efforts. The site is designed to compare Joseph Smith's accounts with everything else we have on parallel timelines. That way it's easy to see whe
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https://www.lds.org/topics/noah?lang=eng https://www.lds.org/topics/same-sex-marriage?lang=eng Most significant line: "Just as the earth was immersed in water, so we must be baptized by water and by the Spirit before we can enter the celestial kingdom." Good thing anonymous author is just a man with an opinion or every Mormon intellectual's head would have exploded.
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"Go nowhere" my ass. Great job anointedone! Truth will prevail.
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Yes, it was Addison that made the statement, not Anderson. Remember, "No GAs there".
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Who's your source?
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cityworker, anyone from the press there?
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From what I've read, his science is pretty good. His apologetic explanations of his science are as horrible as the next guy's though. I wonder if TSCC has bought him yet or if he's doing the apologetics on his own.
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...and what effect it has on "hastening the work"
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And if you're born into it, it's because you were less valiant in the pre-existence. Someone needs to pass a law to protect children from being force-fed bullshit.
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Now you just need to follow that up with a basic lesson in psychology akin to "recognizing the spirit": "Elders, it is natural human tendency to strengthen your belief in something when conflicting evidence is given. This is called the backfire effect, or more generally, confirmation bias. What is that feeling you're feeling right now? We call that cognitive dissonance. It means
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