I made the mistake of 'liking' the wrong photo on Facebook and earned my mother's shaming and guilt...I tried to explain only to get yet another dose. I. Give. Up. Thoughts on how to deal with this? Was I out of line?

The photo was of some middle east little girls worshipping and said: Child Abuse is convincing an unprepared and undeveloped mind that: they are broken and need to be fixed, they are lost and need to be found, they are unworthy and need to be saved, they are sheep and need to be led.

Then the Email exchange:

Mom:

Wow, I am blown away, I saw your post and I am sorry and grieved beyond measure if this is the message you got from Dad and I and our home. I love you and I know how much Dad loved you and he would understand if you misunderstood and just love you more and so do I. I just want you to be happy and feel loved and understood. Whatever pain you got from our home and upbringing I just can't tell you how sad that makes me. Forgive us for whatever wrong or omission we have committed. Our intent was to give you love and security and faith in a loving Savior. I am so sad by your pain, I wish Dad was here, but I often feel his presence and I know he is close and grieving for you in all your sorrow. Mom (and Dad)


ME:

What are you talking about?


MOM:

That post about Child Abuse is teaching... Recovering from Religion.



ME:

Mom,

http://access.ewu.edu/caps/selfhelp/stressmanage/distortthink.xml

It might help you to read some of the above distorted thinking styles. Your response to a Facebook page I 'liked' is not warranted.

Just because I have different thoughts than you is not a reason to be 'blown away' or 'grieved beyond measure'.

I never said anything about you or the way I was raised and I don't understand why you are reacting so extreme.

The fact is religions can be very abusive and I'm sure you would agree. I just finished the Scientology book which was beyond disgusting, but there are many good people in it just trying to do what they think is right, just like a thousand other religions including Mormonism. There is a lot of shaming and shunning of people because of different perspectives within religion or leaving a religion altogether...you of all people who just told me when I was there how people need to have common sense instead of just following blindly every tenet in the church, should be a little more compassionate toward the ways that religion can damage people when they do blindly follow while thinking they are just being obedient. That is the point of that post.

I know you and Dad love me and raised me the best way you knew how but I don't have all the same perspectives that you do and there is nothing wrong with that and I don't deserve to be shamed for it.

In the same way that we belong to a religion that was racist and it changed with time, and now is changing with views towards homosexuality and feminism, my views have changed. I do see a lot of abuses in the past that thank goodness have changed both in Mormonism, other religions and in our culture. Circumcision is a good example, I think it is abusive but that doesn't mean YOU are abusive because you had your boys circumcised, you did the best you knew how with the knowledge and culture you lived in and with. Thank goodness times change.

Embrace the positive changes and don't take it all so personally. This is the very reason I don't allow you to read my blog, your reactions to anything I think or feel differently than you is extremely hard to deal with. Don't ever do that to me again, I am almost 50 and I don't owe my mother an explanation every time I do or think something she doesn't approve of, nor will I give you one again. If you can't handle seeing my stuff on Facebook, hide it or don't read it.

I love you.




MOM:

We raised you in religion. How could I not take it personal or feel criticized. I I never shamed you. And I expect you to express what you believe but to me what was said was a personal attack on how you were raised and damaged by the religion we thrust upon you. You are my daughter, I am your mother, how could I not take that personal. I feel criticized in every thing I do or say by you. If I need to get off Facebook to not feel it, I will.

I'm really sorry. ((Hugs))

My TBM mom does the same thing. Anything that sounds contrary or in disagreement to anything she says is considered to be an abusive attack on her very existence.

Okay, I wouldn't say that. But I'd want to.

But I thought you expressed yourself very well. You were articulate and set some good boundaries. But your mom still came back and played the martyr.

The fact of the matter is that she's going to get up in your business if you express yourself honestly. Your options are to censor yourself, block her access, or have repeated conflicts with her.

Maybe you should tell her that to avoid similar hurt in the future, she needs to unfriend you. But she seems like the type who would cry for days about that and guilt you for not wanting to be facebook friends with your own mother.

Possible solution that your mother wouldn't even know about: I know an exmo who has put her facebook friends into different categories. I don't know how it works, but she makes sure none of her TBM people can see most of the stuff she posts. Occasionally she'd post stuff for anyone to see. I'm a facebook noob, so I don't know how it's done. But it was working for her.

Another thought: Maybe your mother is just a self-blaming guilt monger (rather than a passive aggressive martyr). If that is the case, reassure her that you know they are wonderful people, and that they did everything just as they had been taught to do, but the church just wasn't a good fit for you. But still block her from seeing most of what you post.

Wow! She came out with her guilt guns blazing! I can see where she's coming from though - I think my mom would feel the same. Even though it's not directed at her, the post called into question the legitimacy of the way she's lived her entire life. If she was a SAHM, her life's work was raising you. In lashing out at you she's trying to protect herself.

IOW, this is a lose-lose situation. Maybe just tell her "mom, wow, that post has nothing to do with you! I think you are a great mom and I love you (unless that's not the case I guess). I'm actually really happy and doing well but thanks for thinking of me. " then change the subject!

Your response was excellent. Given her response back, I would either drop her as a Facebook friend or put her in a special group where she only sees selected posts.

She over reacted then dismissed your explanation. Your responses sounded loving to me.

because I have the same problem. I had a huge ugly thing with my mom on Friday, after years of not having things because I started refusing to go there. But on Friday she threw out a new, different kind of shit that was so egregious, I had to go there. And I learned, yet again, that calling my mom on her shit does not work.

Mostly I just wanted you to know I feel your pain, because my mom has said all the same things to me that your mom said to you. "I never shamed you," lol. But shame on you anyway.

I don't know if you've ever said anything like she's imagined you were saying by liking the photo. I have, and I'm indeed fortunate that my mom is afraid of the internets and not on Facebook.

But even if you have said those things to her in the past, she's super nutso for imagining you were somehow talking to her by liking the photo. It's called projecting, and her statements should tell you she feels guilty. I don't see that you had much choice other than to respond the way you did, and I love that you started with "what are you talking about."

I'm surprised she didn't take you on about the distorted thinking styles, because my mom would be all over that. :)

Your mom said, "... personal attack on how you were raised and damaged by the religion that we thrust upon you." Where did she get the phrase, "thrust upon you?" I think that's a very interesting choice of words. On some level does she agree with what you are saying? I can't help but think her strong reaction comes from a deeply hidden knowledge that forcing children into Mormonism is abusive and unhealthy. She will never be able to admit it or even face it, but I think the guilt is there, she just doesn't know how to verbalize it or even begin to make it right. So she clings even more tightly to her defense.

I really liked your analogy about circumcision. And if you go back years further, parents used to smoke around their kids all the time. They just didn't know how harmful it was. By using the circumcision analogy, you gave her plenty of grace, forgiveness and room to let go of her guilt. But she didn't take it. That is her choice.

Am I reading this correctly that your father has passed away? I am so sorry. I can't even begin to imagine how I will feel when my dad dies, or for that matter what it's like to lose a spouse, in your mom's case. But I do think this is a big part of why she can't see past her own feelings. She is clinging to the hope that the Mormon Church is true and she will be with her husband again when she dies. I think in this sense, religion can bring comfort. Unfortunately, it's not truly peaceful because now she has to worry that even though she will be with your father, you won't be with them. There might be some information missing here, but it seems she is projecting her feelings onto you when she uses words like grief, sorrow and pain in reference to you.

In light of this, I agree with above posters who said to tell your mom that you love her and try to bring up some specific positive things she did for you growing up and thank her. I really don't think she meant to shame you. Her post was more about her and her feelings, than any wrong doing on your part.

Sometimes (okay most of the time) I think Facebook causes a lot more problems than it does good. But that's a rant for another post.

I'm thinking she felt guilty. She saw the picture and knew that is what she had done to you. Isn't it?

"Whatever pain you got from our home and upbringing I just can't tell you how sad that makes me. Forgive us for whatever wrong or omission we have committed."

Given that she's making that statement after seeing the picture of the child being brainwashed, I think the request for forgiveness is something many parents would never do. She may not be taking responsibility the way you'd like. Me, I'd like to hear my mom say something like that.

I'd be inclined to say, thanks for letting me know that the pain I got from my upbringing makes you sad - it should. I do forgive you.

Your mom told a little kid that if said kid does not worship the cult that god will hate them and punish them.

That is child abuse.

You're mom abused you as a child for the benefit of a Luciferian Sex Cult.

That is so evil to do to an innocent child.

Your mom should be ashamed of herself.

"Shitcatcher," you're fortunate to have a mom you can have intelligent conversations with, and her love & care for you are genuine. Wish I had a mom like that.

Best advice someone ever gave me (i used to be supet sensitive) .... It's not always about you. Sounds like your mom could use that advice.

Worked wonders for me! Now I'm happily oblivious unless it's a direct attack.

This easily could he been between my mother and me. My sis recently came out and she is apoplectic. I talked myself blue in the face last night explaining it to her.

That was a great response. There's no way that a mother should be chastising an almost 50-year-old adult. But you're not responsible for how she reacts to it. If she can't handle it, then that's her problem.

You stood up for yourself and your response was excellent.

Obviously there is a lot of history between you two, and you both have said things previously, but her initial response really just seems like a motherly love.

At some point in parent-child relationships, the child can take on a more parental role mentally and emotionally. From her intitial email, and depending what you want out of the relationship, I would put myself in a parental role. In so doing, her comment comes more off as a child with a guilty conscious asking for forgiveness from a parent they love.

In this situation, the parent (or you), imo, should be extraordinarly loving, and show compassion.

Lately, I've been thinking about how important it is for me, as an ex-mo, to not continue with the presecution complex I learned as a mormon. It becomes very easy to only "hear" everything a person says through some prism with all its biases that I as the listener has created for that person. In so doing, I add a lot to words, feelings, and opinions that the other person did actually not mean.

Not sure if you are a parent or not, but the guilt I would feel if I found out I raised my child in a lie would be near insurmountable.

This actually seems like a great opportunity for you to show who you have actually become and that you are more capable of love than you every were as a TBM.

Good luck.

this personifies the mindset that is mandatory for TBMs; there's Always the mentality of 'we're better/wiser than everyone else is... Even better than some 'lower class' other LDS!'

of course the manifestation of ALL attributes varies from individual to individual in Mormonism... but TRUST ME: it's an inherit, essential element of being LDS/TBM.

Nice response....... clearly she wants to continue to make it about her..... I agree with q, you need to just say, Mom, it's not always about you. And leave her with that.

"Sorry you feel that way Mom, but it really isn't about you."

Love this response. When you spend a lifetime doing what you thought was essential for spiritual survival for yourself and your loved ones ,not only here but hereafter,and you witness the desertion from what you feel is the only path for survival by one you love, there is a panic and shattering not understood by those who haven't given a lifetime of sacrifice for another. Your worth as a human and parent is called to question; you can't separate the good times because you feel you failed and your child hates you on some level for teaching him to follow the right path as you believe it to be.In my opinion, your mom remains brainwashed judging herself by a set of standards which inflict pain and excruciating self loathing. If you have any spiritual doubts,she thinks in her mind, she failed in her most important calling. One of the worst things I have experienced as a parent is finding the truth in later years and having a grown child ask me why I made them go through so much for the church and NOW, after all this time,I no longer believe. My response was ,"Because I believed it with all my heart until I learned I had not been given the truth." I didn't do it to abuse them, I did it because I believed what I was taught was genuine and what needed to be followed to be together as a family forever! So, I carry the weight of ruining their lives when they were young because I believed ,and ruining them now because I don't... Let the self loathing begin.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2013 11:17AM by oldwoman.

First, I have a question. Did you write the caption or was it part of the picture?

If it was part of the picture, I think your mother might be feeling guilty. If she feels guilty, she might be closer to your views than you think. It's hard to look back on the decisions that I made or helped my daughters make without feeling some guilt.

If you wrote the caption, she probably took it as a personal attack from you. I think that facebook creates problems like that all the time. You don't have the same conversations with your parents or grandparents that you have with your friends, but your facebook posts are seen by all.

I think your response was very good, but you need to have a real conversation with your mother and the two of you need to get to a place where you can forgive her for her parenting mistakes and she can forgive herself as well. You need her to see that you still need her as your mom. You need her to see you as the wonderful adult daughter that you turned out to be, not the one she thought you'd be or even wanted you to be, but the stronger, more independent woman that you are.

I laughingly tell my daughters that the best gift I ever gave them was my imperfection as a parent. Without my failings, they would have no one to blame when they fail. I love seeing them copy my best moves and avoid my missteps.

I wish you and your mom the best.

Wow, I'm in awe of how many have posted such thoughtful, compassionate comments. I really appreciate the many perspectives and ideas and how to move forward with her. I feel so validated, thank you!

I handn't replied again but got this in the morning from her:

"ok, I am off Facebook, that should solve that problem. I don't belong on there anyway. Seems more a forum for causes anymore and not so many pictures. I got on to see my grandson and his girl so I accomplished that."

Yes, we have a long history of me being the 'rebel' which was never very rebellious but not quite the conformist like my sister.

My dad did pass away about 15 years ago and I adored him, he never acted this way so it was annoying that my mom brought him into it...if he were here, he'd be easy to talk to and share my perspective with and he'd be an awesome listener.

I do have four adult children that I raised in Mormonism...I do remember the concern I felt as they drifted away and now they are totally out. I went through a divorce several years ago and found out about eternal polygamy when I married again and that sent me and my new husband down the rabbit hole as we studied and researched that and more. We have quit going to church, quit wearing garments, I am ready to resign but he's not quite there yet. I've apologized to all of my children for raising them in it and so glad they didn't go on missions or marry in the temple. I listened to their views on their childhood and their current (and always changing) beliefs. I guess I would like the same from my mom but I think she is just too old and set. I always just feel like a disappointment to her...she criticizes me and then twists it around to how I am criticizing her.

I will try a loving approach and let her know it's not about her and that I love her. I will definitely work harder at keeping my views private.

They were both very good parents and for the most part it was a happy childhood, I am an introvert/analystical thinker and my mom is an extrovert who loves cliche's so we clash from time to time because she can be harsh/judgemental of others from my view just because of our personality differences. She gets argumentative with anyone that doesn't share her opinion.

My dad was more like me, so she has a love/hate relationship with me (and my dad)...when she talks of him, sometimes it's like the above where he is united with her and other times it's in victim mode of what she had to put up with. But I suppose we are all that way at times. I've never said anything different to her than that she is a good mom and I love her. However, she has recently been giving money/equity in her house, etc to my brother who lives like a king in a million dollar house while she lives on social security...so I've gotten upset with her while she makes excuses for him and calls him the 'peacemaker' and me the 'troublemaker'...our family has been going through a lot of drama. She's 80 and has nothing to do but spin drama in her head.

And the post was a picture with the words on it, I didn't write anything, just 'liked' the post.

Again, thank you for all your responses!

When someone is that adept at turning any situation into being about them, when they can make themselves the victim at the drop of a hat, I couldn't even engage, mother or not. I just shut down.

I have no advice, just wanted to say I think you handled it brilliantly.

I had no idea that your mom was 80. My mom is 85 and we have to have the facebook talk at least once a week. I wish she would just get off all together. She can't seem to understand that people post things on facebook without contemplating that she will be seeing their post. She thinks everything she sees has been sent specifically to her. She asks me all the time what I think this person or that person meant by that?

I don't think you're going to change your mother. When my father was dying he told me, "You were always a good girl". I was 50 at the time and that was the best I had ever gotten from him. I had to make it be enough. I think you're going to have to take the good your mother gives and make it be enough. Tell yourself that if she knew better, she'd do better, but she is just too old to learn.

Your family should have a family trust, so that one sibling cannot take advantage of your mother. Can you recruit other siblings to help with that?

Good luck with the drama and take good care of yourself.

Just block the bitch

Wow, as a side note my sister just texted me and said Salt Lake called her for my address today. She didn't have it so didn't give it. I haven't been to church in a couple years and just moved out of the last ward we were in September 1. That is fast tracking!

I read your post and was blown away at how much it sounds like what has gone on with my own mother. Your mom sounds EXACTLY like my mom, and the interaction is so similar to what I've gone through. Even regarding facebook. She was offended by stuff I'd posted at some point (a peaceful quote with a blurry, beautiful image of a woman and some side boob) and she un-friended me. I had to distance myself from her for a while until she came around and started accepting that things are the way they are. She eventually re-friended me and we're just now (after several months) starting to be able to talk again. It's sad that your mom is feeling victimized by your actions, and hopefully she can come around to realize that you are your own, separate, wonderful person. You may just need distance from her to help her realize this. Good luck, I know exactly how you feel. Let me know if you need to chat more about it with someone who truly gets it.

Thanks jangadai, and everyone, I really needed this validation that I'm not completely crazy! I just realized they changed my pen name from shitcatcher to catcher...lol. My cousin is in therapy, our mothers are almost the same person (sisters) and her counselor says she is a shit catcher for her mom and she needs to quit catching it...anyways, now I'm just catcher, I guess I'm done with the shit :)

Do we have the same mom?

I feel like I've had that exact exchange with my mom over not just religion, but family traditions, fashion, cooking. . . sigh. . .

I can't win. I'm 30. It is telling to say that you are 50 and still fielding this. I feel for you. Not going to lie though, I'm feeling for me too at the moment.

I think your responses to your mother were appropriate and well thought out. You seem to be maintaining your balance and thinking through this in a great way. I also have enjoyed the many responses and suggestions given. They each are clarifying and valuable. I think I can see where each poster is coming from and appreciate that they would take the time to suggest and contribute. Having said that.......

I wonder if your mom isn't coming from a place of feeling little value of herself. Her age suggests that she may be going to the place of, "any interaction", with you (and others in her life) is better than feeling like she has been put out to pasture (so to speak) and is of no value to anyone.

I personally don't enjoy FB but I think it is a great way for people to feel part of the world and I would hope your mother will get back on it. It doesn't necessarily have to bad for her or anyone. (Of course, one does have to deal with what they bring to the party.)

May I suggest that you let her comments blow right by you and simply increase your attention and demonstrate more love to her. At her age, a five minute phone call a day would help her restore the balance in her existence. Just let her know you are thinking of her and let her run through her day to you. Do not react to her negativity and if it starts getting too much and you can't just let it blow by, then nicely end the conversation. Love and compassion.

(It is not your place to try and change her any more than it is her place to try and change you. From your posts, it is obvious that you know that, so even saying it here is preaching to the choir.)

I'm just saying that rather than to engage in her pettiness or trying to justify and rationalize your own position, just call and tell her you were thinking of her and love her. It won't hurt and you may make her ending days more full of happiness. In the end I think you may be glad you did.:)