She was on a 2-hour program on NBC last night that covered the abduction and murder of her daughter.

I thought it was really strange the way she kept a smile on her face the whole time she talked about this horrific event in her life. At least both her kids who were there with her showed some emotion and even shed some tears.

My mother is the same way. Her public face always had to be a smile. Of course when we were alone she let out her emotions ane became a vicious abuser. My mother so admired a fellow church woman who kept a calm peaceful look on her face during her husband's funeral, her goal was to do the same at my father's funeral, and she did. I was with her a couple days before the funeral too, and nary a tear shed.

Is this a mormon woman thing, thinking crying and sadness is a negative emotion that can't be shown in public?

I do remember thinking this myself, and was always humiliated when I came close to crying in public and always tried to pretend hurtful things didn't hurt, but I can't pinpoint where it came from.

Robert B or other therapists here might be able to explain what it means--when one's affect is inconsistent with the feelings they're experiencing.

I also thought how awful for Brooke's boyfriend on a mission in Venezuela to find out that his girlfriend was raped and murdered so horribly while he's serving his mission. If there's ever a moment to doubt the church that would be it.

I thought the same thing about the mom. Very strange that she kept a smile on her face. I think it is that fake Mormon smile everyone talks about.

The monster who killed her stated that because she fought him, he hit her over the head with a piece of wood.

As young women in the church are always taught to fight to keep someone from taking their virtue, would the outcome have been different if she hadn't done so? We will never know. It is just so incredibly sad that this happened.

The mother did seem very disconnected from her feelings.

I caught that too. The mother said "And when we found out she fought ..." but didn't complete the sentence. I don't know if she censored herself or bad editing but I sure wanted to know what she meant by that. Of course, evil apostate that I am, wanting to believe only bad stuff, I think she wanted to say she was glad she fought to the death because now god won't blame her for what happened.

It was like she was relieved when she found out her daughter fought. I was told in my partriarchal blessing to guard my virtue with my very life and I lived in fear of being raped knowing I'd been overly warned to fight to the death and being afraid I wouldn't be able to do it. Brooke's mother would have been raised in the same time period I was. She's probably heard Satan C. Scott state that a girl needs to counsel with the bishop after a rape to determine her degree of responsibility. Ms. Wilberger seems to have gotten comfort from that instead of wondering if her daughter might be alive if she hadn't fought.

I also thought it was truly weird how she smiled while she was describing the horrific details of what they went through. "Oh, look at us. Aren't we so faithful. We know we'll be with our daughter again so we just smile at what happened because we know it was God's will."

And was it just me, or did anyone else wonder if the killer's sister was a Mormon? She just had that demeanor about her and used some phrases that sounded mormony. Does anyone know?

Aside from all that, my heart broke for what her family endured all those years and I was glad they finally got to lay her to rest.

Yes I thought she had the demeanor too, and then when she described what she prayed for, to say the right things, to speak when she should and to not speak when she shouldn't, that sounds a whole lot like the prayers I grew up with. I'm quite unfamiliar with other religions tho, maybe they pray the same way?

I remember when it came out that Brooke had fought and that is why she was killed. My gut reaction is that her killer is a lying. I don't believe for a minute that he wasn't going to kill her fighting or not. It angers me that her killer would leave them with that. It is just a way for him to control the situation, putting some of the blame of what he did on his victim.

Yes--I see this a lot. This is what I take from it, though. I saw Russell Yates on Oprah and everyone was saying he seemed to not have any feeling. Did anyone look at his eyes? At the time, I was going through my own hell and you can tell by looking at someone's eyes and his were full of pain. Sometimes the pain is so bad, you are beyond crying.

Nobody knows what this woman is going through. All I know is I certainly wouldn't want to be her. I saw part of the program, too--but got distracted so didn't get to finish watching it. All I could think though is I would hate to be her.

To clarify, I wasn't trying to suggest she wasn't feeling pain, just that in my experience with mormons, many of the women seem to have to hide it and put on a calm happy facade. I don't think I saw pain in her eyes either.

I've thought long and hard about why I feel like it's humiliating to cry in front of someone, and why I have to pretend nothing hurts me and go on smiling. I don't have any idea where those ideas came from.

Yes, I'd hate to be her too. What a painful horrifying experience.

Crying was "wrong" in my family and unacceptable. I HATE to cry in front of people and rarely do it unless I'm angry.

When I hurt badly enough I crawl behind a shell and don't express much of anything.

I don't know if that's the case with this woman. I couldn't venture a guess because I know nothing about her really.

AS a person who has trouble showing emotion in public, I can sympathize with Brooke's mother.I have never cried at a funeral for instance although I have cried in private when people die. I am a private person and always have been. My sister, on the other hand, turns on the waterworks at every sad occasion. So did my mother. People show grief in many different ways and nobody grives all the time. It has been a while since Brooke died too so the grief isn't fresh. As far as her fighting, that is substantiated by the fact that he did let another girl go after raping her. I saw that on a program a long time age.That doesn't necessarily mean that Brooke did fight, but her family seem to think it was in character for her. I'm not sure if we are talking about the same program.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2011 01:51PM by bona dea.

Last night's program showed how he got caught. He kidnapped another woman in Albuquerque, but he didn't let her go, she escaped. He came looking for her, the woman who rescued her saw him driving around the area.

Do you know why you have trouble showing emotion in public? Was it taught by parents or church? I do remember being told in MIA that you should only write good stuff in your journal so your descendants would know you were happy in TSCC. Is that where I got it from I wonder?

Lillium Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Last night's program showed how he got caught. He
> kidnapped another woman in Albuquerque, but he
> didn't let her go, she escaped. He came looking
> for her, the woman who rescued her saw him driving
> around the area.
>
> Do you know why you have trouble showing emotion
> in public? Was it taught by parents or church? I
> do remember being told in MIA that you should only
> write good stuff in your journal so your
> descendants would know you were happy in TSCC. Is
> that where I got it from I wonder?

I was never taught not to cry. My mother and sister cry at the drop of a hat. I think it is just a matter of personality. I don't think upbringing or church had anything to do with it in my case. As I said, I have always been a very private person. Other siblings are the opposite and we were raised by the same parents in the same church. Go figure

I can,t believe that so many of you think you no the mind of the mother,you should all get jobs reading minds, all of you would be broke.

LOL someone's got a lot of spare time, dredging up three year old threads. Go back to church where you belong.

Who knows what would have happened if the NM woman hadn't escaped. Maybe he wanted to rape her again before killing her. Maybe he WOULD have let her go when he was done with her. Maybe not.

No, it wasnt taught to me. As I.said,my mother cried at atthe drop of a hat. So does my sister. The church never tuaght me anything on the subject.I dont know why, but it is not my style.

I agree c12. We have no idea how we will react in certain situations. I wouldn't want to trade places with her either. I have no doubt she loved her daughter. The whole thing is horrible.

barely holding it together for the interview. I don't for a minute think her face showed her real, happy smile, not in the least. I saw a level of pain in her face that I cannot comprehend.
There is no such thing as only one proper, right way to show pain. Everyone will naturally be different.
Finding fault with how someone shows pain? Very strange thing to do in my opinion.

except the exact location of the remains. Other than that he is not to be believed.

I watch a lot of what used to be Court TV and I remember a couple of cases where the defendent was judged guilty because they did something that I probably would have done too. One was the Pamela Smart case. She was a teacher who hired two of her students to kill her husband. One was her lover. The police thought she was acting suspiciously because when they arrived she was concerned that her dogs were missing. Her 9 11 call was perfectly appropariate for someone who found her husband's body, but later she was upset that the dogs were gone. Sorry, but I don't care who had been killed. I would ask about my missing dogs too. They are my babies. I do think the lady was guilty, but I wouldn't have judged her on that issue unless she showed no concern for her husband. The call to police showed a woman in hystericswhich was appropriate and at that point she didn't mention the dogs. She was a good actress apparently because there was a lot of other evidence against her.

The other case was the Darlie Routier case. A woman claimed that someone broke into her house and killed her two little boys and severely injured her. She had wounds which the jury never saw including deep bruisees all over and a cut neck. She was convicted partly because she and her family held a party at the gravesite a few days later. It was the birthday of one of the dead children. One of the aunts brough Silly String which was a favorite of the child and they sprayed it on the grave. They also left balloon and flowers. There was some joking and laughing. The police taped it and showed it to the jury. They neglected to show the preceding religious service where there was plenty of crying. I might have done the same thing on a dead child's birthday and I have been to plenty of funerals and viewings were there has been laughing and jokes. I have my doubts about this woman's guilt and she is sitting on death row.

And it shouldn't have been. It's terribly inflammatory and doesn't prove anything. I hate that prosecutors do that all the time instead of focusing exclusively on the real evidence.

There was also that other case of that woman who had the breast implants a couple months after her husband died. They didn't even have evidence it was a murder and she got convicted mainly because of that. But the judge eventually overturned her conviction.

Anyway, I think Pamela Smart and Routier were both guilty though. There's other evidence against Routier of premeditation and blood evidence and evidence that the crime scene was staged from within. I sleep okay at night about her though.

Cristina Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And it shouldn't have been. It's terribly
> inflammatory and doesn't prove anything. I hate
> that prosecutors do that all the time instead of
> focusing exclusively on the real evidence.
>
> There was also that other case of that woman who
> had the breast implants a couple months after her
> husband died. They didn't even have evidence it
> was a murder and she got convicted mainly because
> of that. But the judge eventually overturned her
> conviction.
>
> Anyway, I think Pamela Smart and Routier were both
> guilty though. There's other evidence against
> Routier of premeditation and blood evidence and
> evidence that the crime scene was staged from
> within. I sleep okay at night about her though.

I am undecided about Routier, but have no doubts of Smart's guilt.I don't see how she could have inflicted the wounds on herself. However, the evidence that it was staged from within works against her. Like I said, I am undecided and don't think it is fair that the jury didn't see the video of the family crying along with the party and that the didn't see all the pictures of her wounds. The one I saw, that the jury did not, showed deep bruises all over her body.Some jurors saw it and the video of the family crying later and said they would have voted differently if they had seen all the evidence.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2011 03:24PM by bona dea.

Cristina Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> n/t

Or not shown at all. Bereaved poeple have been known to laugh and to leave things a dead child loved on his grave-even Silly String.

There really is something therapists look at in a person's "inappropriate affect" or "incongruent affect" that shows a person is having a hard time expressing the whole range of emotions. They express a different emotion in their affect, their face and gestures than what their words convey and other body language may express.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mood_congruence

She was obviously in anguish and she was very vulnerable as she spoke. Which is why the smile is oddly incongruent with the emotion she is feeling. It's not that she should have cried or should have done anything. It's an observation about being programmed to channel feelings through one acceptable emotion even when the emotion you're feeling is the complete opposite so that it looks like you're coping much better than you are. And for many people it leads to repressing true feelings and to emotional illness and to not healing.

Not finding fault with her. Feeling sorry for what she's holding inside. Not asking her to show me what she's holding inside. Just feeling sorry for what she's holding inside.

+1

I tuned in late and didn't know that Brooke was LDS. But when Courtney's sister was saying things like, "I prayed about it," I began thinking maybe the killer was raised LDS. So after the show I Googled him, and found out that the victim was LDS. I was very surprised. I was also surprised to find out that you can find out very little about the killer himself.

Brooke's mother most likely had five years of pain, grief, professional counseling and prayers to help her find some peace in her heart by the time that she gave that interview. She also has her own personality. There are many factors that contribute to why a person- let alone the Mother of a daughter who was murdered- would not openly expose their grief while speaking to millions of people with a camera in the face. To say that it has something to do with the way she was taught in that Mormon Church-or any church is very strange to me. I read that you no longer belong to that church, but no one can imagine the horror that she has experienced. To say not crying has something to do with her church, only highlights that you must still have the problem with that church, and she just a mother getting through a news conference speaking about her murdered daughter.

You know nothing about how we were raised. Many of us WERE raised to always show a "pleasant" expression, and it was indeed a mormon "thing".
And since you clearly didn't read a thing about the website you just posted on, DUH many of us still have a problem with that racist, sexist, homophobic cult you seem to want to defend.

I have no desire to defend the church,but I was never taught to always present a happy face by either my parents or the church.Your experience wasnt everyone's and all Mormons are not the same.

And saw it with all my mormon girl friends. Don't remember it ever being brought up for boys. Always have a pleasant face and tone of voice. I could do OK with the face thing but I was always getting smacked for my tone. Sigh.