Many of you know me and know my situation on here. I was just looking through posts and saw one talking about "Question: For Mormon Brides on their weding night." Many men and women talked in great detail about sexual experiences relating to how they were raised in Mormonism. I was not raised in Mormonism but converted when I was 18. A big part of my experience both joining and leaving Mormonism has to do with my Asperger's Syndrom and the sexual repression that I was pulled into in the MTC. Also I was always confused by the different rules that apply with the Molly Mormon girls that I was/am greaat friends with as opposed to girls who werent members. This post was exactly the same kind of thing that I wanted to talk about in my local ex mo group.
As many of you know, I am now in exile from that group because of it. So I was wondering, why it is ok for somone (a man) to post that on here, but not ok to try to talk about it in the same kind of context at an ex mo meet up where I explain why I want to talk about it and ask it. I can honestly say that I am not a pervert/predator, I just think that human sexuality is fascinating especially among the Mormon ex mormon dynamics.
So once again I thought that all I was doing was having the same kind of conversation that these people did on the board in person with ex mos. Can somone please explain this to me and give me your thoughts, thanks.

That was my post. I am a pervert and even I know you don't bring those things up in person with women.

Online you can talk about much more than is appropriate face to face. Online you can post a thread warning the content is explicit, and it is open to those who choose to participate. No one feels singled-out, targeted, or forced to respond. They can feel free to ignore the topic completely and no one will take note. Now if you singled out one person in your subject line and aimed the question at them only, that could be inappropriate.

But still the anonymity online gives you more leeway. If you don't give out personal information online, you have no worries about what you say getting back to people you know or your employers or someone getting obsessed and stalking you like people might be worried about meeting face to face.

Face to face, questions like that are too personal and too demanding. Just stay away from talking about sex with people you know unless they are VERY close friends.

Well it is still tough for me, because I like to talk about this kind of stuff like blogger Laci Green (an ex mo) and I also like to be like Howard Stern sometimes lol. I also like to talk about this stuff with women more than with men because I know what men are like and how they think where as with women it is more of a mystery to me. The rules are really grey a lot of the time and it is frustrating.

I can exit and enter the online world with a flick of a laptop lid. People saying dirty or mean things don't bother me, because I can make them go away -- at least as far as I'm concerned -- quite readily.

In real life is something entirely different. The whole of the Internet is inappropriate somewhere. Sexually explicit topics are best discussed with a therapist, spouse, or confidante; they would be inappropriate at a dinner party where young kids are present.

It's not really a double standard. As far as most people reading this are concerned, it's just words on a screen -- detached almost completely from a face, a name, an identity. As somebody upstream mentioned, if you were to ask a general sexual topic here, it would probably be answered. If you were to seek out a given individual and inquire with him or her, he / she may be alarmed.

In simple terms:
-- Never talk about sex face-to-face with anyone unless you have a therapeutic or strong emotional relationship. If you have to ask yourself "Is this appropriate?", then it's not
-- Never single out anybody individually online for sexual topics
-- General sexual topics are okay to post in many online forums so long as you are not soliciting information about given individuals or posting in a way that may appear threatening.

Looks like your best bet would be with a paid professional -- either therapist or prostitute.

No I do not need a prostitute, I am not that far out there and I do not feel like geting arrested.

OK, then therapist.

I will explain it to you, tombs1:-

I recently had to see a lady doctor, I had to show her my naked rear end and said: "Can you take a look in there for me, please?"

She did and that was perfectly acceptable. (It turned out all was OK, by the way, but that's another story.)

However, if I had gone to a woman at random, who wasn't a doctor, had dropped my trousers and boxer shorts and said: "Can you take a look in their for me, please?" she would have kicked me in the hat box!

Can you see the difference? What you failed to "get" Tombs1, old chap, was that ***context is everything*** in relating to other people.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2013 05:50PM by matt.

Your local ex mo group is different than the folks here.

Even if some of your local group members frequent this board, it does not mean that the local group is sponsored by or has any obligation to conform to any rules that apply here.

Two separate entities.

When my husband and I were married for about 6 months or so we had Christmas at his parents place. We were watching tv and a commercial about erectile dysfunction came on and mother in law said that she knew all about it. Awkward tmi for me I shouldn't know that about my father in law.

subeamnotlogedin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When my husband and I were married for about 6
> months or so we had Christmas at his parents
> place. We were watching tv and a commercial about
> erectile dysfunction came on and mother in law
> said that she knew all about it. Awkward tmi for
> me I shouldn't know that about my father in law.

Actually, she might have been thinking of some other chap, which might have been TMI for your father in law! >:oO

Part of the issue with your local ex-Mo group, tombs1, is that you frequently tried to talk about sex with women who DID NOT want to discuss it with you. You were loud, aggressive, and disrespectful to the women (and to their husbands, who were sitting next to them and asking you to stop).

And you weren't always speaking "generally" about sex. I witnessed you tell one man that his wife had nice calves, and that you wanted to squeeze them.

So yeah, I think that's a bit different than asking a general question about sex in an online forum.

Spare us the pity party.

Which I can personally relate to. Only late in life (60's) did I realize what I have and how it messes up my social skills, especially "reading" people and situations. Tombs, I'd say you have a real learning curve ahead of you--but you're still years ahead of me! Read up on it, consult with a therapist, and talk things through with other aspies. We can be so obnoxiously oblivious to other people's feelings!! Even after 25 years my marriage seriously foundered. (It took heavy-duty re-courtship to patch things up.).

For starters, realize that what you consider reasonable and fascinating carries major emotional freight with others. Consider writing a BRIEF but sincere and GENERALIZED letter of apology to the ex-mo group, mention your asperger's and your intention to get some help with it.

Good luck, buddie!!

We are aware. That's why he's getting the kid glove treatment -- BUT IT'S WEARING THIN.

If tombs1 sincerely suffers from Aspergers, then I believe his questions to this forum are also sincere. Aspergers is a neurological condition which is characterized by social impairment, sensory integration problems and communication difficulties, including inappropriate or fixated interests or eccentric behavior.

He has a developmental disability and he cannot help his behavior.

People with Aspergers are often shunned or viewed as social pariahs.

I realize that his questions and actions at an ex-mo get together were inappropriate and I understand why he was asked to leave.

But I do not think he is a troll. He is merely someone who suffers from a brain impairment. Aspergers is part of the autism spectrum. Sometimes depression and anxiety disorders are co-occurring.

Tombs 1 is asking questions and at least he is trying to understand.

"He has a developmental disability and he cannot help his behavior."

This gives me comfort.

I'm glad my wife has fat calves (so do I).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2013 12:13AM by thingsithink.

Wait, but does that mean he won't pick up on things not being okay even after people are asking him to stop? I mean, I am genuinely asking, because I seriously don't know anything about aspergers.

Probably more didn't understand the objections, so thought they were unreasonable and disregarded them.

Asperger's has varying levels of severity. Stuff that seems obvious to most people makes no sense at all to some people with Asperger's (like in this article "don't change the radio station when my wife is singing along"--http://www.npr.org/2012/02/03/146342668/best-practices-learning-to-live-with-aspergers)

If Tombs doesn't grasp these things instinctively he's going to have to make a set of rules and guidelines to go by and stick with them.

I don't know if I have Aspergers or not - if I do, it's a relatively "minor" case.

But I find that I have a problem with getting "context" in conversations. Sometimes I'll be looking at the context of the last five minutes; others it'll be a summary of the last five years.

This causes no end of confusion for my wife.

Why bring this up here? I think it's a sign of Aspergers, and might help understand what goes on when someone asks Tombs1 to stop. It is VERY possible that someone says "I'd rather not talk about it." which means "I would rather not discuss the very specific question you asked about"

(
If, for example, he asked "Do you find big calves sexy? I know I do - your wife's for example, I'd just love to squeeze them!" and was told "Dude - that's my wife; don't talk like that about her!"...I could easily imagine someone with similar issues thinking ~Ok...don't discuss wife calves. Got it.~ -- and replying with "Oh. Sorry - what about her boobs; do you find those sexy?"
)

Does this sound accurate at all Tombs?

It's weird tombs. Sex, for a lot of people, is a highly private thing, and while they feel okay talking about it behind a secret facade, they feel uncomfortable having it brought up in public to their face.

You are one of my favorite posters, you are bright and intelligent, and I can tell you have a natural curiosity. However, on the subject of sexuality, nearly everyone has been conditioned to view face to face questioning on the subject, as a come on, at some level, even when they know this isn't the case. Bringing up sexually taboo subjects in person, may be seen as a hidden invitation to explore such subjects, intimately, even if this is not the case.

This should not be taken as a sexual rejection of yourself, it isn't, because you can be turned off by someone you are sexually attracted to, if they bring up something you are not ready to deal with.

My recommendation is that you try to find someone who is comfortable with the subject. Either a lover, or a close girlfriend who gets you, and discuss such matters with them, when you have questions or issues. This is what nearly everyone does. Think "Sex and The City." However, such relationships take time, and I understand as someone with Aspergers, such friendships may be very hard to come by. I wish you luck in finding that person though.

As others have pointed out, on an internet board people can choose which topics they wish to respond to, and which they want to avoid.

Tombs, when you are meeting up with other people, there are certain topics which are best avoided. These topics are sex, politics, money (personal finance, and the cost of an item someone has bought,) and religion. Among exmos, where religion is the theme of the interest group, the latter would be an exception.

All right, in response to fallen Moroni's post:
I thought that I did stop when he asked me to and explain to him and his wife why I said and asked the things that I did. But I have no doubt that I might have come across differently and that what he is saying has merrit.
Second about telling a guy that his "wife had nice calves and I wanted to squeze them." I knew this guys sister pretty well and both of them asured me that they understood that I was kidding around. That is why the guy didnt punch me in the face!
Third I am not trying to throw a pitty party I am asking a serious question.
Lastly, I really liked Fallen Moroni and thought he was a nice guy, I remember having a nice conversation with him when I saw him at the meetings. I thought that I did stop when told that I was making him and his wife uncomfortable, and I feel bad that I didnt do more to rectify my actions. thanks.

Thanks Tombs. It's not always easy to understand other people's point of view, so I appreciate that you're hearing us (and we're hearing you).

I enjoyed our conversations about sports, etc. Sticking to these types of non-threatening topics is a good way to build rapport.

Hey tombs,

A big reason why a lot of things are more acceptable to ask about online than in person has to do with the way primates (including humans) process subtle information given off by the bodies present in a group.

Our brains are constantly passively scanning for basic advantages or threats to our,survival. This is generally a subconscious thing, and not something a lot of people are aware is going on in their bodies basically all the time.

Now, one of those things the brain scans for is threats from competitors of the same species, meaning pretty much everyone in the gathering who isn't a part of their trusted family group. One of the ways people have evolved to get along and cooperate despite this tendency to always be on the survival watch is the very subtle verbal and physical communication clues we subconsciously give off to assure each other that we are not going to suddenly grab a nearby blunt object and go to town on one another.

One of the cruel things about Asperger's is that:
1. You don't give off the kind of "I'm OK, you're OK" signals that the majority of people are accustomed to receiving on a very basic level. This can trigger our monkey brains to become suspicious of you for no reason. The bummer is, once the caveperson part of a person's psyche labels you as a potential threat, it takes a long time, if ever, to get it to change its judgment.
2. You have to work hard to interpret the subtle signals people give off that say, " dude, my brain is telling me I should view you as a potential hazard, and I so do not get why." Asperger's sufferers are challenged in picking up on basic monkey/caveman signals that say "back off" or " back down". Thus just makes it more likely for the non-Asperger's brain to mount a more increasingly aggressive or irritable response.

Keep in mind that sex, like food, shelter, clothing and tools are very basic evolutionary survival assets that have de
ep connections in the parts of the brain I'm talking about, and you can see, when in a group, how giving off any signal that you are a challenger or competitor to others for these resources, can trigger people to become irritated or aggressive with you.

With women, there is the added sense of being physically vulnerable to a strange male, and that makes our cavewoman brains respond very aggressively.

On the internet, we are not physical beings who can be threatened. Our primal brains are assured of safety. Therefore we are comfortable answering what would otherwise be awkward questions.

In addition to whatever therapy or treatment you get, I would recommend a study of what scientists label "neurotypical" human behavioral biology. Might help you understand the majority you are surrounded by.