I've recently started following Joanna Brooks after reading her book The Book of Mormon Girl. I like the posts on the blog Feminist Mormon Housewives. But I do wonder why these ladies stay in the church. What's the appeal for them? Especially those like Brooks who have married men who aren't members. Do you know any of these feminist Mormons? Do you think if change happens it will come from the inside? Have you taken part in the Ordain Women movement or Wear Pants Day (Dec 15th this year?)

I have a hard time seeing their perspective because once I married outside the church, that was my out and haven't been back. If and how to raise children in a "part member" family is for another day...

Seriously-- they can say they are feminists and stay in the church? A river in Egypt anyone?

I was a feminist Mormon. Eventually that aspect of myself really helped me find my way out of tscc.

My wife frequents that blog. Since she started reading FMH (not to be confused with FHM) she has become more open minded, and I dare say more fun to be with. So I'm all for it. My wife will probably always love Jesus, but her love of mormonism is fading.

My opinion is that TSCC is a complete fraud, and there is no point in reforming it. The FMH crowd seem to think that TSCC is the god's church with problems that need to be fixed.

My wife isn't quite daring enough for the pants initiative, yet.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2013 10:50PM by libor.

My sister actively blogs at FMH.

I honestly don't know what keeps her in. I know that she has had deeply spiritual experiences that "fit" within the framework of Mormonism. She is not ignorant of the problematic issues in church history. On the contrary, she is well educated and extremely familiar with the problems that exist. I think that she views the BoM as inspired fiction and still feels attached to Mormon tradition.

It seems to me that she would do better as a member of the Community of Christ. I think that her hope is that the Brighamite church will eventually follow along much the same path that the CoC has taken...that it will maintain the social aspects of Mormonism, but de-emphasize or renounce the "one true church" claims along with the polygamy, patriarchy, homophobia, racism, etc.

I guess we just see things differently. She has hope that the church can evolve into a benevolent organization that maintains its good qualities.

I tend to view the issue along the lines of what the scriptures say about how a bad tree cannot produce good fruit. Personally I have a hard time with the concept of reforming an organization that was corrupt from the very start.

It is funny though. I used to view her as being a borderline heretic who was on the high road to apostasy. Now, she is the one that maintains her hold on the church and I am the apostate.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2013 11:18PM by OneMightyAndStrong.

FMH assisted my wife in leaving Mormonism, and she still reads it somewhat regularly. Many of the contributors are former Mormons, including the founder; many more leave the church as a result of what they read there, or from their own feminist awakenings.

I actually love the site for being an open place where Mormons can discuss feminist issues. Many of the movements toward gender equality that have sprung up in recent years were spearheaded by FMH contributors and readers.

Could you clarify, En Sabar a uh? The founder of the Feminist a mormon Housewives, Lisa Butterworth, is an active, temple-recommend-holding Mormon. What makes you think she has left?

Sorry for the typos.

I like your screen name.

Oops! Should have checked for dupes. Sorry!

It's ok! Great minds think alike.

Now we have multiple "Tapir Saddle" variations?

I just got the different Susies all straightened out!

;)

Perhaps I was mistaken about Mrs. Butterworth. I thought I had heard her speak on a podcast about her faith crisis, but I can't seem to track it down. I suppose it may not actually exist. Alas, the frailties of memory, confounded by time and vodka!

I should probably retract my previous post; I've never been a regular reader of Feminist Mormon Housewives, and most of my information has been given to me by word of mouth from my wife.

And anyway, I suppose my perspective on this matter is a little skewed, as I've observed many women I know, my wife included, reject the church patriarchy and leave Mormonism after coming to a feminist awakening. It seems likely now that I projected my own experiences onto the contributors of feminist Mormon housewives.

Naughty, naughty me. I'm usually more careful with my assertions.

FMH was actually the catalyst that got me out of TSCC. I had known about the issues (like temple changes) for years and was a closet doubter because I was to afraid my wife would divorce me.

But then DW read something from FMH and I started reading it and it gave me the confidence to come to RfM. After that, DW confronted me about my unbelief and she tried to save me by using FAIR's arguments. 2 weeks later she was convinced it was a fraud.

So I, for one, like the site as being a halfway point between TBM and Apostate that is approachable.

The edit isn't working, and I misspoke.

She didn't use FAIR's arguments. She came across FAIR in an effort to see both sides, but finding out that FAIR was trying to defend certain issues only confirmed that TSCC had something to hide.

I was accused of being a "Feminist" before, I just didn't know how to respond to that. I was thinking Women already are Equal, catch up! All that feminism-movement stuff was in the 60's and 70's so : go get in a time-machine and go back there! That's what I should have said anyway. I just ignored the "man", and rolled my eyes and went about my day. Being Equal as a woman (in Society) is not something I ever concerned myself with. I like wearing my bras too, thank you, it's very uncomfortable not wearing one.

I'm not sure how to take your post. Are you saying the work of feminism has been done? If that's the case I'm afraid I don't agree with you. Huge strides have been made but there's plenty of ground left to cover.

As for bras, I like them too. However, I think this attests to your idea that feminism is now what it was in the 60's and 70's. Perhaps a closer look at the issues of contemporary feminism is in order?

Oh hell no, it isn't over with. Here in 2013, I'm at the age of almost 38 years old, & I still deal with sexism on a daily basis. Anyone who says that the fight against sexism is over is deluded.

pipe down toots, and get me a cup of coffee! ;-)

It's still big news when a woman is appointed CEO of a major company. I'm looking forward to the day when it's business as usual!

You say "Feminist" as if it's something nasty and calling you one is an insult. I wish you would re-think that.

If you think the work's been done and all is well, I think you must be in some denial. If your life is so great and you never encounter sexism, I'm happy for you. Really.

Or perhaps you're a ★Peopleist★ like me. My made-up term. People,ANY people, whether female, male, transgender, or whatever, being treated poorly or unfairly on account of their gender riles me horrendously.

My sweet husband kind of sighs when I get mad and says I need to accept that life is not always fair.

"Nope, I won't," is my reply.

On one hand I think that it's great that you feel equal. Seriously, that is one of the key points of feminism to have girl and women not feel inferior and that you don't feel that is great. That to me is one sign of success for feminism!

However...

On the other hand, your personal lived experience is very tiny in this big wide world of billions of people. You just need to open a news website to see that sexual discrimination and inequality is still the order of the day for many people.

For instance, just the other day was the 24th anniversary of the 'Montreal Massacre' - an event in Canada (where women have full equal rights) where a man specifically corralled female students at a college into a room and opened fire on them while exclaiming his hatred for women and feminism. He killed 14 women... because they were women.

And I'm sure you've heard about Malala Yousafzai.

These two examples are tiny specks on the tip of the iceberg.

Feminism is not just about you and your immediate context (although that is important), it's a far-reaching, global undertaking that is far from being complete.

I feel like we discuss this every couple of months or so.

Can one be feminist and mormon? I don't know. These women (and men) are certainly trying. I thought the OW protest outside of the priesthood sessions was gutsy. I loved the photos of the 12 year old boys walking past the women....it's clear who has power.

Will things change? I certainly wasn't going to stick around and see. For me, I can't be a part of something that lives and breathes misogyny like that. But I don't know what's best or right for anyone else.

I believe fmh and being a new order mormon are stepping stones for change or leaving. There are so many systematic problems, it can be almost impossible to deal with long term.

And stats of divorced stay at home moms, particularly those without an education are bad. They are often economically impoverished and the family suffers. I'm not going to fault anyone for working the system until they are on their feet.

I saw Joanna Brooks on The Daily Show a year or two ago promoting her book, and she came across to me as a culture missionary for the Mormon church. She was trying very hard to make her Mormon upbringing look really rich and fulfilling, but she seemed to me like a teenager who was defending her bad friends. I grew up in the Mormon church, and I found it very limiting and in conflict with a very normal world around me and not really very beneficial at all. Certainly not worth making a career out of promoting it, like Brooks has.

Yes, I predict she will leave when her daughters are older and she can no longer rationalize her choices. :)

Joanna Brooks has a vision of TSCC that doesn't correspond with the reality of the average female member.

She seems to think that all Mormon women can be like her. Yet, she lives outside of the Mormon corridor, is married to a non-member (clearly a non-temple wedding), and has a very non-Mormon career for a woman.