The Church has recently condemned its past Black Priesthood denial "policy" (they used to call it "doctrine") as being racist and not from God.
Gee, we already knew that. We were more in tune to the truth than Mormon "prophets."
So my question is:
If the Mormon prophets, seers and revelators, including ten consecutive presidents of the Church taught an evil, pernicious lie and said it was from God, does not that make them false prophets? Does not that make it a false church?
If for 126 years they continuously taught a wicked, hateful false doctrine, and implemented it with wicked, hateful, racist policies and during that whole time of 126 year while they were doing this God didn't once set them straight (it would only have taken one simple revelation to the prophet) how can we possibly trust the Church leaders today? They may be totally wrong on the gay-marriage issue, or the "word of wisdom" issue (the scriptures say it's NOT a commandment), or the "number of earrings" issue etc.
If the announcement does anything, it admits that this is NOT the Lord's Church. This church is NOT being run by the Lord. How can "The Lord's Church" get it so wrong for so long?
The BEST they can say is that the Lord shows up every century- and-a-half and makes some adjustments. Yeah, that will go over great.
Yep. Who is lying? The current "prophet" who says racism is not of God? Or the ten "prophets" (from Brigham Young to Harold B. Lee) who all said is was?
And that's before you even get into the fact that the doctrine is derived from stuff taught in the Book of Mormon and Pearl of Great Price, and was taught (to at least some extent) by Joseph Smith!
Baura - THANKS for starting this thread/post. Since I heard about this "revelation" or whatever they are calling it, I have been wondering first WHY? why would they do this based on everything you have said....they are opening themselves up to serious scrutiny about false prophets for 126 years!! With their (always) living prophet, it would only take one revelation to set them straight! This is insane of them IMHO. Second, I ask WHAT is up with the TBMs since this announcement? Isn't this a big deal? Since this country has had a history of steady race issues (some good, some bad) but steady nevertheless, isn't something like this huge? I have talked to two TBMs in the past two days. Without actually asking them what they think of this, I have provided hints to get a conversation started by them, to give them a reason to "brag" that TSCC is not racist. Isn't that what they have always wanted to be able to say? In one case, (when talking to a TBM doll collector) I mentioned a man I knew 20 years ago who would not let his children own a black Barbie doll. I thought that might get the topic warmed up, but the bait was not taken. In the other case, I mentioned a course I took in college, African American Studies taught by a black professor at the Univeristy of Utah. I mentioned how I would not want to take a course like that from a white (or any non-black) professor because the prespective would just be like reading a book by a non-black person. I said this to a TBM doctor who is half black. Neither of these TMBs took the bait. WTF? Are they embarrassed about this? Are they so brainwashed that this is not sinking in at all? I am confused. To me this is one of the dumbest things TSCC has ever done because of what it opens them up to. Are Baura and I the only ones thinking about this? WOW! Like Baura said in her last paragraph........is going to go over great? Is it just going to be ignored by TBMs? How about by non-TBMs? This should be on the front page of the NY Times. Headline "126 years of God's lies finally ends." Am I wrong?
enoughenoch19 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > This should be on the front page of the NY Times. > Headline "126 years of God's lies finally ends." > Am I wrong?
Kinda, yeah. Almost nobody cares about Mormonism either way, except Mos and exmos (for whom Mormonism can be overwhelmingly significant), and maybe a few crusading Christians. Short of some kind of sex scandal, complete abolishment, or a huge public financial fraud issue, nothing about Mormonism is newsworthy to the world at large. Except maybe in a very limited sense for a while when one is a Presidential candidate.
Most mormons just want the issue to disappear. It's embarrassing-- the fact it existed and the fact it shows that church leaders aren't the prophets, seers, and revelators they claim to be. They won't acknowledge it or bring it up because they know it's not a good position to be in.
In the past, at least two things happen when people discover the hidden facts: first, they are surprised that they actually happened, and second, that they feel lied to by the church; either overtly, or by omission. With the internet and its readily available information, the church can no longer hide its dubious history and/or doctrine. They have to face the music and start talking about their history, while attempting to do it in the least damaging way possible. Best case, they'll "inoculate" existing members by giving the best possible limited angle to a situation whereby the members think, "oh, the church hasn't hidden anything." (Of course, they wouldn't be doing this at all if they weren't backed into a corner.) Worst case, they open the proverbial can of worms and members who normally wouldn't have questioned, start questioning.
Back in 1978, (at least in my mormon world), there was a collective sigh of relief when the ban was lifted. Nobody needed or wanted an explanation. And, the church had been lightening-up on its dark-skin curse preaching; it had turned into a *mystery* that we weren't supposed to talk about.
Same today. Members just want their mormon momentum to continue. The internet and its posters aren't allowing it. But that doesn't mean the members can't keep pretending all is well by avoiding the unpleasant. They don't want it to be a big deal. They don't want it at all.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2013 10:49AM by jpt.
Here's the thing: DW was away in Utah and Idaho when this happened. I picked her up in Atlanta, and on the drive home, asked her about this. She didn't know, or feigned not to know, anything about it. But she got angry when I pursued it for a couple of minutes, made a couple of short-tempered answers, and we haven't spoken of it since. To a TBM, all that issues forth from the LDS "authorities" no matter how obviously silly or anchored in falsehood, is true and good, full-stop. End of story. Think North Korea.
Well... I brought up the problem to my brother in order to explain why I couldn't trust any "living prophet." (This was before the announcement.) He could only testify that he knew President Monson was a prophet, that he had had that witness, and could not back down. That is the answer most TBMs will give.
Except....'tis the season of moving elves around the house,decorating for ward Christmas parties, shopping,wrapping,hauling the YW and YM to temple square, Tabernacle choir concerts, standing in long lines at the post office to mail missionary care packages etc, etc. Not a single member of my family has read the Tribune article about this let alone the church's long diatribe. By the time they hear about it in a Sunday School class, months or years from now, it will be just like the Hinkster's explanation. "I don't believe we ever taught that!" I am afraid this may not shake people either....as long as Pinterest is also on the internet, TSCC is safe!
First. She seemed at peace that they threw Brigham Young under the bus.
Second. Her ongoing belief (and that of many TBM's we know) is that it doesn't matter if a prophet misspoke in the past OR present. As long as you follow the church leaders over you, there will be no condemnation if they are wrong. Ergo,
Follow correct teaching = blessed for obedience Follow errant teaching = blessed for obedience Don't follow errant teaching and stay quiet = blessed (though risk becoming apostate). Don't follow correct teaching or don't follow errant teaching and don't keep quiet = fast lane to apostasy.
What about the tired phrase "the prophet will never lead the members astray." I heard that over and over again. So how do TBMs wrap their head around that? It seems obvious to me, but I haven't been drinking the koolaid in a long time.
A. It wasn't a big announcement B. Most tbm haven't even heard about it C. They won't care or look into it too much if it'd not said in conf by the big 15.
My facebook is loaded with TBM friends and family. It has been completely silent in regards to this announcement. In fact, it feels like no one dares say anything.
There were many issues that I had with the Church before I left for good but this was probably one of my biggest logical reasons to leave.
How could all of these 'prophets' have us believe something so wrong and hurtful. You would think that the 'one' true church would be on the cutting edge of revelation from God on ALL topics and would have this sorted out before the rest of society.
Reutters, Huffington Post, Salt Lake Tribune, Yahoo! News, Christian Science Monitor, Religion News, Aljazeera, Christian Post, Time, Provo Daily Herald, Jewish Journal, The Guardian, Christian Century, Idaho State Journal, Fee Republic, Religion Dispatches, All Christian News, AOl, amidst many others.
This story is all over the place. Only the most insular community could bury its head deep enough in the sand to claim ignorance of it. Oh wait, they are that insular.
Before this announcement, the church was in a catch 22 situation when it comes to racism and past church docterines. Now they're still in that same situation except they've revealed that their former prophets led the people astray. Good job guys. All we have to do is sit on the sidelines and watch the church self destruct.
OK, more cog dis. This announcement was supposed to provide members with a cover up answer to all of the truth sites out there like this one. And yet, most TBMs don't know about it? What I have to say is - Azsteve, I hope you are right. and Living the Dream - if the Provo Herald is one of the ones who published this announcement, TBMs know about it. They are just ignoring it right?