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Posted by: angsty ( )
Date: October 08, 2010 11:29PM

A while back, someone wrote a great post about how a number of doctrine and practices in the church are similar to elements of "1984". This whole Packer fiasco reminded me of it. For the life of me, I can't remember who wrote it, but it was a great essay and a great thread.

Did anyone save it? Or remember who wrote it? I'd love to read it again.

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Posted by: snowball ( )
Date: October 09, 2010 06:45AM

George Orwell. Yes the parallels are striking.
A good read for anyone in an authoritarian society.

After reading that book, I decided I had a moral responsibility to disassociate myself with the Morg.

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Posted by: Timothy ( )
Date: October 09, 2010 06:57AM

Pops was a huge John Bircher until he got kicked out. He actually made me read Orwell's 1984 so I would better understand what the commies were after.

Sorry, Pops, it just seemed more like mormonism to me!

Of course, it also seemed to me that the John Birch Society was going to save us all from the evils of communism by subjecting us to the very thing they (JBS) were fighting against.

But what do I know?


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Posted by: EssexExMo ( )
Date: October 09, 2010 10:29AM

I mentioned 1984 a couple of weeks ago

"We have always been at war with Eastasia"
(ministry of truth, 1984)

As the allies and enemies of Oceania (And Airstrip one) change, the 'ministry of truth' simply changes its records and *forgets* any previous announcements. It just states "We have always been at war with Eastasia"

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Posted by: angsty ( )
Date: October 09, 2010 02:44PM

but several years ago someone penned a fantastic essay discussing how Orwell's ideas find parallel in LDS history, doctrine, dogma and organization. I am now kicking myself for not saving it. I know I didn't fantasize the whole thing because I read it out loud to my husband who had just read 1984 and wasn't quite out of the church yet. It had a profound impact on him.

I should have saved it to my hard drive. Lesson learned.

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Posted by: Skunk Puppet ( )
Date: October 09, 2010 03:10PM

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Posted by: ANON ( )
Date: October 09, 2010 04:09PM

"Animal Farm" is about Mormonism too.
Date: Dec 04 23:09
Author: In There
Mail Address:

In the Barnyard all the animals could read except the old Nag Horse. Because the other animals could read, they didn't need to have good memories. Not so with the horse. His memory was perfect, it had to be.

As the written rules kept changing on the side of the barn, none of the other animals noticed: "All animals are created equal" became "All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others."

Only the old HORSE noticed the change when it was read to him. He was the only one with a good memory, so he became a problem to the barnyard.

Like the barnyard animals, Mormons ignore vital changes too. All they are taught to care about is the current "voice". On the other hand, we at RFM etc. are more like the old nag, we see the changes. We remember the past. We have become the problem in Mormonism's Barnyard.

I believe in the Prophet Orwell.

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Posted by: eddie ( )
Date: October 09, 2010 04:50PM

Great topic.

"One did not know what happened inside the Ministry of Love, but it was possible to guess: torture, drugs, delicate instruments that registered your nervous reactions, gradual wearing down by sleeplessness and solitude and persistent questioning." - 1984 by George Orwell

Just like the Ministry of Love in 1984 when you are "loved" by TBMs you are in for a world of hurt.

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Posted by: Way Out ( )
Date: October 09, 2010 05:31PM

I read 1984 during Christmas time last year - sort of depressed me for a few days after finishing it.

There are many parallels between the world of 1984 and present-day politics and the mentality of the majority of society that believes or at a minimum, lets slide what leaders in government say. All of those parallels apply just as much and more to the great and abominable Morg.

I am a staunch libertarian and I was always bothered by the extreme efforts TSCC went to in order to control people. When I was a teenager, TSCC rallied all of its members to fight against the passing of the lottery in Idaho. While I didn't see any justification for the State to run lotteries, I also noticed how much emphasis TSCC put on legislating their interpretation of morality-- and that really bothered me. I realized that they want to FORCE people to be good and that was very difficult to rationalize away from the perspective of a TBM who believed, at the time, in the war in heaven and "free will" versus "forced compliance" as the two plans that were offered.

In 1984, you had TVs that could capture video and audio of you in your home, all for the purpose of the State to protect itself against anyone who would even begin to harbor doubts, questions, or the slightest sign of disagreement with the State. Even more, there were the party members who were always on the look-out for that sign of "apostasy".

In Mormonism, you have Personal Priesthood Interviews, visiting teaching visits, home teaching visits, priesthood quorum meetings, relief society meetings, Young Women meetings, temple interviews, correlation meetings and bishopric meetings, where from personal experience I can say that leaders seek to learn who "needs their help/love" and how best to give that help/love/support.

In 1984, you had Newspeak - a language engineered to eliminate the ability to even think about concepts that were subversive to the State.

In Mormonism, you have terms like "anti-mormon", "faith-promoting" (as opposed to non-"faith-promoting"), "faithful", "worthy", "testimony", "truth", "apostasy", "stupor of thought", "Holy Ghost", etc. The way they are employed within the culture of the-cult-that-is-TSCC leads to the same result: TBMs are indoctrinated to use the very belief-framework they sometimes doubt in order to resolve those doubts, a classic case of the fox guarding the hen house. TBMs expect themselves to squash any doubts they may have by staying within the TBM belief system rather than investigating it from the other side of the "veil" Mormonism erects around their minds.

I'm sure the list can go on and on.

I like Christopher Hitchen's point to the effect that there must be something seriously wrong with those who want to subject themselves to a dictatorial totalitarian "supreme being" for all of this life and all of eternity.

And as far as TSCC is concerned, how many have heard that once you enter the waters of baptism (and especially if you proceed on to make temple covenants), you "give up your free agency" and bind yourself to do what basically the Old Chronies stipulate is the will of God and JC?

The desire to control anyone (whether it be one person, a small group or organization, or a nation) - to seek to have power to compel people to obey your will - well, that's ONE of the biggest sources of evil ever.

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Posted by: dp ( )
Date: October 10, 2010 01:30AM

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Posted by: Kch ( )
Date: October 10, 2010 04:50AM

Disciplinary Councils = "Ministry of Love"

Hidden History/Apologetics = "Ministry of Truth"

Reduced Ward Budgets/Increased Member Cleaning = "Ministry of Plenty"

Treatment of Blacks, Women, Gays = "Ministry of Peace"

Jesus = "Big Brother"

HT/VT = "Thought Police"

Scout Program = "The Young Leaders of Tomorrow"

Questioning your leaders = "Thought crime"

Changing Temple Ceremonies = "Memory Hole"

We are Christians = "Newspeak"

What happened vs what you are taught = "Doublethink"

Apostates = "Emmanuel Goldstein"

Mormonism = "Ingsoc"

Temple Endowment Session = "Room 101"

Salt Lake City = "Airstrip One"

Pepsi = "Victory Gin"

Kingdom of God = "Oceania"

Catholic Church = "Eurasia"

Christiantity and other religions = "Eastasia"

1st Presidency/Q12 = "Inner Party"

Rank and file members = "Outer Party"

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Posted by: top ( )
Date: October 11, 2010 05:27AM

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