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Posted by: anonexmorm ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 12:52AM

I have resigned and my girlfriend is Jack Mormon. Neither of us believe in the church or have anything to do with it anymore but some things, I think, cling for her.

She's told me recently that she doesn't know if she can be with me because she doesn't have 'confirmation' that we're soulmates. Basically she feels like if it's not the Notebook and I express any doubt or it's not fate, we're not right for each other and we shouldn't even try because we're getting in the way of the One. That's just not how I think and it's hard for me to understand that kind of thinking.

I love her to death and this is killing me but I can't lie about what I feel and think. I just don't believe in all the fate stuff and that you know when you see someone that you're going to be with them forever. I feel like this is partly leftover church stuff but I don't know what to do with it. I know she's being sincere because I know her really well. Our relationship is hanging by a thread literally because of some illusion/fairy tale she's holding out for. I don't know what to say because I feel like it would be cruel or seem jealous to tell her that she'll never find what she's looking for. We're good to each other and we love each other but that's not enough for her.

I don't know what to do anymore. I don't know if it's doomed or if there's something I can say without having to lie about fate or soulmates. I want to be with her, maybe forever, and that's all I know but she needs it to be something 'more' and she says that will never be enough for her. I thought maybe she was just unsatisfied with me and using this as an excuse to break up but after a lot of conversations I fully believe and understand that this is something she feels strongly about. She believes there's something meant for her that she's supposed to be waiting for. Am I missing something or doing something wrong?

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Posted by: notnewatthisanymore ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 01:13AM

I've been there before. You've lost already. She has way more growing up to do than you should stick around to work through. If continuing dating were an option, I would say stick with it, why not. However, it seems like she is already trying to decide if you will get married, and her confirmation is a 'chick flick' style encounter. At this point, staying would mean way more of a commitment than would be appropriate considering the assumed maturity levels involved here.

Find someone you click with, who is on a similar maturity level, and who isn't so wrapped up into a concept (such as soul mates) that your relationship gets strangled before developing.

If she believes so strongly in a "the one", then she will always resent you for sticking it out. You will have been the guy she settled for, missing out on her "real" love.

That is my take on it. You need to follow your own heart here, since you get to deal with the consequences :)

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Posted by: Stray Mutt ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 10:01AM

notnewatthisanymore Wrote:
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> She has way more growing up to do


That, and she's a magical thinker.

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Posted by: I believe ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 02:05AM

I can identify with your GF. There are some people that I just "click" with when we first meet. It's a feeling of knowing them before, or just understanding them on a deeper level. I married my husband without this feeling, thinking that it wouldn't matter since I'd converted to the church and all that was needed were "2 people who were committed to the gospel." I thought that special connection would develop later, but it never did.

Let her go. If you were to convince her to marry you, she may always wonder about where her soul mate is. You don't need to worry about that for the next 50 years.

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Posted by: Ragnar ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 02:27AM

It is "doomed" - it's over. She recognizes it, and you'll need to accept it (sooner or later).

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Posted by: verilyverily ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 03:06AM

"it's not the Notebook" - REALLY? How old is she, 12? The notebook is a MOVIE. She was in the CULT too long to know that a movie is NOT REALITY. Dump her. She is a child and always will be.

"fate stuff and that you know when you see someone that you're going to be with them forever." - just for the record, this did NOT happen in the notebook. Allie was unsure about the relationship for a while.

Tell the girlfriend to go see Frozen, since it is about in her age range of movies, fantasy fairy tale. Sorry dude.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2014 03:08AM by verilyverily.

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Posted by: grubbygert ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 04:36AM

nevermind - from your post below it sounds like you've got it all figured out - good luck



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2014 11:47AM by grubbygert.

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Posted by: dogzilla ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 08:54AM

While I don't entirely disagree, this seems deceptive and game-playing to me. If I were the woman in that specific situation, I might think he was trying to be manipulative or controlling -- and it is. You are basically advising using the Almost Silent Treatmentâ„¢ in order to change or control someone else's behavior. That doesn't sit well with me if we're talking about trying to maintain a healthy relationship.

So I'm going to go with: Accept that you will never be good enough for Princess, because she is looking for a Prince Charming who does not exist. Wish her well, try to continue being friends, but move on. You want someone who loves you for YOU and not for who she thinks you should become.

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Posted by: Stray Mutt ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 10:19AM

It's not necessarily manipulative. If my behavior in a relationship is jeopardizing the relationship, I should change my behavior. I should stop pushing on a door labeled PULL. If the other person feels like I'm trying to talk them into something, I should stop talking. If I've made my intentions and position clear, I should step back and give the other person the space to respond. "I love you, now I'll wait for you to decide where you stand." It's manipulative if I'm trying to make the other person do something she doesn't want to do. It's not manipulative if I'm trying to keep her from messing up something she wants.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2014 10:22AM by Stray Mutt.

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Posted by: dogzilla ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 10:50AM

Then why not be upfront and just talk about it?

"I feel like I'm putting more into this than you are and because you are having doubts, I'm going to take a step back. I love you and I would love to spend time together, but I'm going to hang back and let you initiate things more often."

Then she's aware of the expectation and can choose to change her behavior or not. But the other way, she doesn't really know she's expected to initiate texts and phone calls and plan the dates sometimes.

I know when I'm really into someone, I don't let that "girls don't call first" crap hold me back. If I want contact, I contact him. If I notice that he's the one doing all the chasing and I'm passively just letting him, that tells me I'm not really into him and I need to tell him that. I don't think it's fair to string someone along, letting them think you're into them when you're only going out with them just so you don't have to stay home alone with the dog and Netflix.

Many guys have told me they don't like being "tested" and that's what this advice seems like to me. So I'm trying to figure out why being open and honest and upfront and using your words to communicate your needs like a grown-ass adult wouldn't be more effective.

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Posted by: grubbygert ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 11:11AM

what I wrote is not meant to be one-size-fits-all dating advice - it's what OP needs to hear right now and, like a locker room pep talk, is not meant for the general public

what you see as manipulative is probably the guy-centric focus on actions - he asked: "Am I missing something or doing something wrong?" because he wants something more substantial than your "just talk about it"

it sounds like they've been doing plenty of talking and this is where it's gotten them

anyway, if my post doesn't sit well with you that's fine with me because it wasn't written for you

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Posted by: dogzilla ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 01:36PM

I realize that this is not advice for me, but I'm trying to see this from the girl's point of view. If a boyfriend pulled the pull back tactic on me, it would backfire. The OP doesn't really want to break up -- and she didn't say she did either. So nobody wants to be the one who pulls the trigger on breaking up.

If my BF -- after conversations about doubt -- suddenly pulled back to "give me some space" without explaining why, I would assume he's over it and not into me anymore and maybe just didn't have the balls to break up with me to my face--or didn't care enough to share his feelings (maybe I made him mad when I said I wasn't sure, maybe he was looking for an excuse to break up anyway, maybe his heart is broken and he hates me now). So I'd let the fade out happen and not make much effort to save the thing BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW I WAS EXPECTED TO TAKE SOME ACTION. Nobody is a mindreader. If he expects more out of her with respect to the relationship, then don't you think it's fair to communicate that expectation? Give her a chance to succeed, don't just set her up for failure.

So this just seems like a passive-aggressive way to not be The Bad Guy who is the breaker-upper, but to be the victim of the breaker-upper who just blew you off. You're advising the OP to back off but not to say way. If she had insight into his motivation for that action, she might just step up to the plate and start pulling her weight in the relationship.

I just think with a little bit of communication, the very same technique could be very effective in helping this girl realize how she should behave in the context of an adult relationship. It takes work. Even Noah says that in The go****amn Notebook -- he says something about "It'll be hard and it'll be a lot of work but I want that work with YOU." You don't just get the Disney Princess relationship where all you have to do is be pretty and it all works out just fine. Love is a verb. It's probably not really happening for her because she's apparently not putting all that much effort into it. Garbage in, garbage out.

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Posted by: Stray Mutt ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 10:11AM

If you're the one with the most interest in maintaining the relationship, you are the one with the least control of your future together. You've already said, "YES!" She's waffling, which put you at her mercy. It's one thing if she just doesn't know what she wants. It's another if she knows how to use wavering interest to control you. She could also be acting this way as defense against being hurt. She might want to be sure -- to an unrealistic degree -- that she doesn't make the big emotional investment only to be dumped. The irony is that this kind of behavior can drive an emotionally healthy partner away.

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Posted by: anonexmo ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 11:14AM

That's what I thought at first and honestly that would be easier for me to deal with because at least I could understand it. I thought she just wasn't into ME. That would hurt but I could handle it and move on eventually.

But like I said--I know this person really, really well. I know when she's being dishonest. And we call each other about the same amount, to be honest. But there's a conflict for her because how much she likes me doesn't match up with her idea of 'fate.' After talking with her enough about it, I realize that that really is the main issue. She's devoted to it like a religion. She thinks unless it's predetermined, it's not a relationship worth having, and since I don't believe in it myself she doesn't know how ours can be predetermined.

And no--if Ryan Gosling asked her out and he said he didn't believe in soulmates, I truly think she'd feel uncertain about him too. That's how deeply devoted she is to this.

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Posted by: neolithic ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 12:05PM

Exactly my experience. Cool it a bit, learn to step back just a little. Give her some room to breathe. She will sense that some space has opened up and then she can choose to either step forward into the space or find that she likes it and let it be. Either way, it will be a healthier relationship if that's what you're after.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 05:32AM

anonexmorm Wrote:
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> We're good to each other and we love each other but that's not enough for her.

Some girls get caught up in the fantasy that there is only one right man for them in this lifetime, their "soul mate" if you will. With added maturity they realize that there are a number of men with whom they could enjoy their lives, but it may take them years to get to that point.

I agree with Grubbygert above that if you want to have any chance with this girl at all, you need to back way, way off. Let her chase you. But it's a bit of a longshot.

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Posted by: quinlansolo ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 07:55AM

She is just not sure you are the one.

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Posted by: Stray Mutt ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 10:34AM

I think people who believe in soul mates also believe that if you find the perfect person the relationship/marriage will be easy and carefree -- they'll live happily ever after. But real life isn't anything like that. Relationships are struggles -- some less than others, but they're not endless perfect bliss. If she doesn't want to let go of that myth, then she will be forever disappointed.

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Posted by: RinCaba ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 11:10AM

Stray Mutt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think people who believe in soul mates also
> believe that if you find the perfect person the
> relationship/marriage will be easy and carefree --
> they'll live happily ever after. But real life
> isn't anything like that. Relationships are
> struggles -- some less than others, but they're
> not endless perfect bliss. If she doesn't want to
> let go of that myth, then she will be forever
> disappointed.



This is very true! I married a man with whom I felt a very deep connection right from the get go. Even before I met him, I had a sense that there was something life changing with him. I met him and it seemed that we had been together before.

We are getting a divorce. I still love him, he is a good guy, but there are too many problems to fix.

Soul mate? I don't know about those, but the ex and I, we had a beautiful, romantic beginning and now it is over. That's life.

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Posted by: madalice ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 10:49AM

Anyone who is basing their life decisions on a movie needs some reality therapy. Life is not a movie. She will have a very screwed up life if she continues to make decisions based on a fairy tale.

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Posted by: sonoma ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 11:21AM

RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted by: exmorm ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 11:26AM

lol. may I ask why you say that?

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Posted by: sonoma ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 12:48PM

Sure.

Her views on marriage are based on a movie.

If she thinks that "soul mates" are real, she'll believe ANYTHING!

It's only a matter of time before she decides that Mormonism is real too.

You, on the other hand, are rational.

You know that the idea of "soul mates" is bullshit.

Therefore, you also realize that there are other women out there who are not bat-sh!t crazy like your current girl.

You know that there are plenty of smart, sane women who you can fall in love with and create a happy, successful marriage/life.

You know that someone who believes all sorts of nonsense like your current girl is going to cause an infinite amount of heartache and headaches for you.

You knew all if this before you came here and asked your question.

You just needed some encouragement to do what you know is the smart thing.

So, the best course of action for you at this point is to

RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted by: Bradley ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 11:52AM

If she wants conformation, it will have to be like any other conformation. After a trial of her faith. Being soul mates doesn't mean it won't be a rocky road. People who love each other still have disagreements, misunderstandings and rough patches.

Soul mates come together because nothing can keep them apart. There's really no danger that she'll miss out because true love can't be stopped. It always finds a way. It might turn your life upside down, but it finds a way. So, tell your GF to stop worrying and live and love in the now.

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Posted by: schmendrick ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 12:24PM

She's just not that into you [anymore].

May I ask how old the two of you are?

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Posted by: CL2 ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 12:34PM

No matter what they pretend to say, that is what I picked up from Mormon teachings. God had my one and only just waiting in the wings. Pretty much all I had to do was wait. So when I fell head over heels for a nonmo guy I worked with and he asked me to marry him several times, I turned him down. He moved away.

Five years later I ended up marrying my gay husband, although I still love him in a platonic fashion. He's a great guy.

But after almost 30 years, the nonmo guy got a divorce. We have been together for 9 years now. It has been good, but it definitely hasn't been easy.

She is very much buying into the one and only. I think you've had some good advice here. One thing I've definitely learned in relationships is to not act needy. It never works.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2014 12:35PM by cl2.

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Posted by: paintingintheWIN ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 12:58PM

why pursue someone with whom you do not socially emotionally sexually intellectually & tribally or politically click? Why attempt to own them or limit their contact with all others sexually when they perceive that what they receive from you is not worth/worthy of abstaining from sexual emotional intellectual tribal & political contact with all others? Why try to control their sexual social emotional intellectual & tribal political contacts when they claim they do not perceive you as sustainable maintainable or a social tribal niche intellectually and socially not just sexually that is an acceptable or desirable resting place for a life long committment?

Then, so, why pursue it? So she may as much have said that she wanted someone who speaks French. & you do not. So that is the end of it.

Unless some part of you receives a pleasure form from being that which is perceived as lesser or less desirable- for want of " speaking French " and always be received as the less desirable, less wanted "caste" in tribal society always play a role of the least desired lower hierarchy among all others

then how will you accept such a 'place' within her extended tribe or her mind? and later among others promoted amongst even your children, event after event the outcast amongst it or left out entirely- born not made a lesser lower member amongst her desired community thus, you, the undesirable.

How would you find it a pleasure to be among that. It must be a far far more desirable tribe, canyon land amonst a desert, refuge above all others for you to beg even an undesirable place a pittance to rest your hearth aabout it a servant amounst the greatest tribe on earth of which you're clearly not a part at least according to her heart.

Go on marry an ___________ (insert tribal reference here can't be your own) & marry a bigot LOL

NOoo cast not your heart upon the rocks Carry your self up to where one will adore YOU!

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Posted by: snuckafoodberry ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 01:45PM

Jack Mormon and ex Mormon are two different things. Knowing what I know now, stepping away is the best thing to do no matter how hard it is. Once her name is removed that is another thing. But her Mormon status means she hangs on to it a bit. I would not commit my life again to a jack Mormon. They can reactivate at any time and raise your kids in it.

Your future happiness and well being are at stake.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2014 01:46PM by snuckafoodberry.

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Posted by: NeverMoInMoLand ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 02:59PM

This is going to be long, so my apologies.

I think this needs to happen:

1. A real heart to heart adult conversation;
2. You both going your own way.

I struggle to answer your question for many reasons. I am going to go against the grain a little and say, I don't think it is necessarily wrong that she says she believes in a soulmate-sort of relationship. I think that is just how she is expressing some deeper feelings that there is just something missing, even though everything seems great "on paper". There is also absolutely nothing wrong with how you feel, that you do not believe in the concept of soulmates, and cannot feel that way about her even if you love her greatly.

As some context, I have never been Mormon. I was not raised in a religious environment, though I was exposed to religion. I have been, as far back as I remember, an atheist. I do not believe in higher powers, or fate, or kismet, or karma, or anything of that sort. I certainly have never had this idea growing up of meeting my "soulmate" and living happily ever after. I would describe myself as a realist, a cynic, and heck, as a glass-half-empty kind of person in many respects, ha. I am smart, highly educated, like to consider myself reasonably emotionally aware.

I have dated many people over my life (I started dating at about 13, I am now in my 30s). I have had a long term relationships with some truly great men, including one lengthy common-law relationship. We loved each other. We had fun. We had lots in common. We respected each other. There was nothing bad about our relationships. On paper they should have worked. And I KNOW that you can have relationships with different people and there is not just one person out there for you in all of the world. But something just did not work, for me, for them, for both of us. It was never that things were "bad", and I think the relationships could have continued if we both really "worked" to make them continue, but that is exactly it...it would have been a lot of "work" and struggle to make the pieces fit in the long run. Something in my heart always just said that while any relationship needs nurturing, it should not feel like so much work.

I met my husband when I was 29. Right off the bat there was some connection there for both of us that was just unlike anything we had before (he too, at 35, had a lengthy history of relationships, including long term ones). I did know he was the one for me within a very, very short period of time, and he felt the same. Neither of us expressed it as the "one", but it was more like a sense of "belonging" and just knowing that what we had was something very rare and special. Logically I know of course we were not "destined" to meet, as there was plenty of things that had to go right and wrong in both our lives to bring us together, including the timing, and previous breakups, both joining the dating site at the right time, both being in the right place emotionally, both living in same place at right time, and all of that, and that was a lot of chance really, but ultimately, we just fit, we just match, we just feel so right together, it DOES feel like we have known each other forever, even though we have certainly known each other for only a short portion of our lives so far.

I never had that before. Even in relationships where I loved the other person very much, there was a sense that there was underlying lack of truly "getting" each other, there was never quite the same sense of connectedness, or the complete honesty and sharing of our true selves. It was more like, we got along, so let's just hang out and love each other, and see how things go, followed by, hey, this is pretty good. We still get along, we have fun, maybe we should live together? Or get married?

I am really not a chick flick kind of woman. Most would describe me more as a tomboy type than a girly-girl. I watched part of the Notebook with my sister and felt like gagging. But, I cannot pretend that I do not share something very, very special with my husband to point the only way I really CAN describe it is that he is my soulmate. If I had never met him, I probably would never have known it was missing, or known I wanted it, or even what I was looking for, but now that I have experienced it...I can't look back. I hate talking about "the one" with others because I do think it makes me sound like a silly young girl! But, all I know is that my husband and I have been married for a few years now, and I still feel this very strong sense of peace and "oneness".

This does not mean we spend our days gazing into each others eyes. We certainly have life to deal with, and some of it is just difficult, but I don't know, even "conflict" between us seems...well, easy as we are "on the same team". Even in disagreement we have this mutual purpose of understanding and putting ourselves in each other's shoes. And quite honestly, are conflicts are very, very rare arise more out of, say, one of us feeling a bit snippy one day due to stress, than us actually fighting AT each other. We are quite okay with us having our own personalities, thoughts, individualities, approaches to things, and these do not give rise to conflict. We talk about these things all the time. We have no interest in making the other someone else, so there is no 'struggle' in that respect. We deal with external stressors, tragic events, the misunderstandings, very much together, always with this sense that we are in this life together. We, as existentialists, recognize ultimately the concept of 'aloneness', and that we really are all "alone", but it is like there is no one else I would rather be "alone" together with than him, ha.

Is it impossible for me to have found this with anyone else? Maybe not (but I know I could not find my husband again!). But I do know that I have NOT had it before, and nothing could have made it happen with the men I dated before. What I DO know is that my husband is the great love of my life (and apparently he thinks I am pretty darn special too, ha). I really, and I don't base this on a lack of experience, do not feel that if something happened to my husband, that I would find THIS kind of love, this kind of relationship, again. I have been "unlucky" in life in many ways, but with this..with my marriage, and with my husband, I do feel like I got very, very, lucky.

Maybe she will find what she is looking for, maybe not, but I do honestly understand how she can just feel something is "missing" and be stuck in putting it into words and know, that no matter how much she loves you, there is something not quite right. Because, really, sometimes everything looks like it SHOULD work on paper but it just does not. She probably loves you very much, I do not think that is in doubt, but it sounds like something for her just is missing. And I don't think it is fair to take the position of trying to "educate" her that she might never find what she feels she is looking for just because you don't believe in it yourself. It is very possible one day she will meet someone and feel it really IS right.

You are absolutely right, you should not have to lie to her. That is not fair to you, or to her. To me honesty is just integral in any loving relationship, and to lie would only be a disservice to you both, and really shows how "not right" it is. You can tell her you love her. That you want to be with her, but that you just can't tell her that you feel what she wants you to feel. And you can't. She has to decide, for herself, whether that is enough for her or not.

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Posted by: anonfornow ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 04:08PM

Crazy alert.

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Posted by: BoMSkeptic ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 07:22PM

Id put her in your pocket as an "interesting" story you can share with furure gfs/lovers.

Girls like her freak me the fuck out because, for apparently no reason at all, they will latch onto you as being "The One" and the next thing you know is you've got a delusional stalker thinking you are some angel sent down from heaven to fix all their problems.

Seriously, get away from her before its too late. She doesnt know how to judge the quality and value of a person. The only thing worse than having an unfaithful partner is having one who is whimsical and off the hook when it comes to relationships.

She will just as easily turn around and hate the man she initially loved, because the only thing guiding her behavior is sporatic feelings. Feelings based on what she reads is the "right man", what her parents tell her is the "right man", her biology, whether or not she got 20% off on her shoes at TJMaxx or not, and all other sorts of woo-woo.

Her heart is like an astrologist. It makes floundering predictions about who to be with and who not to be with.

Ever wonder why some women marry sociopaths? Its because they trusted too much on "feelings", ignoring the reality of who the person truly was.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2014 07:24PM by hypnosisplz.

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Posted by: ozcrone ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 07:44PM


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Posted by: anonexmorm ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 07:53PM

I meant the magical thinking.

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Posted by: RPackham ( )
Date: April 09, 2014 07:50PM

The author of a book a few years ago that was a handbook on "finding your soulmate" wrote it with the woman who was actually his soulmate. It was a beautiful book. It could make one believe in soulmates.

A few years later, he and his wife divorced. It turned out she was (obviously) NOT his soulmate.

Later, he found another soulmate.

So see? You can have more than one soulmate. Maybe lots.

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