original thread: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1243915,1243915#msg-1243915

I just sent this email to the bishop. This should get interesting.

Bishop xxxxxxxxx:

Thank you for calling me last week to discuss this. I have taken a few days to think about our conversation. I am disappointed and saddened at your decision to exclude me from an interview you wish to conduct, alone, in a small room with a minor, especially given your experience as a lawyer. I feel more strengthened in my resolve to sit in on my son's priesthood interview.

I have combed through the current Handbook for Stake Presidents and Bishops and can't find any guidelines on this topic. Is it a local decision to not let me sit in on an interview with my child? Is this a common policy in most stakes? It's mind boggling to me that scouting has a "2 deep rule," it's church policy to have 2 teachers in a room when instructing minors, but for some reason there is less chance for verbal/physical abuse if the lone adult in a room with a minor is a bishop.

xxxxxxx is my child. I am responsible for his physical, mental, and emotional safety. Allowing him to meet with a stranger, unsupervised, is irresponsible. For a parent to grant an added measure of trust because somebody is an authoritative religious figure is a dangerous cliche (insert priest/alter boy reference). Furthermore, I find it contemptuous and rather insulting for religious leaders to assume they offer a service that serves a need greater than "avoiding the appearance of evil," by being alone in a room with a minor with the intent of asking personal questions, including those of a sexual nature without another witness present (especially if that witness is a legal guardian who has specifically requested attendance).

Another reason I want to be in the interview is because of my own experiences in these same interviews when I was a teenager. I remember sitting in front of an authority figure, like a bishop, who represented himself as a literal representative of the one true God. I gave the bishop any answer he wanted to hear because I was a bit intimidated. If the bishop asked me if I masturbated I said "no," even though I did, just as you did and just as any other teenage boy did at that age. If the bishop asked me if I knew Joseph Smith was a prophet I said, "yes," even though I knew nothing about him beyond what I had been told in Sunday school.

If my boy participates in this interview I want him to feel as comfortable as possible answering questions honestly and without fear of rejection. Something is wrong if children are taught that speaking to a bishop privately about heavy topics like whether or not Thomas Monson is a prophet or whether or not they adhere to the Mormon definition of chastity is a safer, more appropriate environment than having a parent or trusted adult present when such questions are asked.

If you feel I should be allowed in this interview, I challenge you to stand up to the stake president and express your opinion. Let the consequence follow. Do the right thing.

Until you allow me to be a part of this interview, I ask that you ensure no LDS representative be allowed to speak with my children privately relative to worthiness for priesthood or young women's advancement, which includes pulling them aside in a hallway or in a classroom corner. I will feel comfortable that my children have been sufficiently schooled and prepared to handle these interviews on their own once they are legal adults.

Thanks.

xxxxxxx

you are allowing him to participate in mormonism but you don't want to play by their rules.

Not that simple. I have a family of 6 to keep together and my wife is still active.

Not disagreeing with your approach. I am going through a similar situation.

But I realize in doing so that I bend to allow the children to go and be part of what is a very strange micro-society and than I try to limit how much they participate.

It really doesn't work very well...in the end, at least for me.

The church will eventually force me to let them be in or take them out.

Playing by their rules is for suckers.

Bravo!

*thumbs up*

As you said, this could get interesting.

As his parent, there is absolutely nothing wrong with you telling him that he'll need to wait until he's 18 to make the big life decisions like this.

Explain to him what has happened to young people who have found themselves alone with a seemingly trust-worthy adult. Explain that you are his parent and are responsible for his welfare and that's why you are taking this stand.

He's old enough to get that. He may balk because he doesn't want to be embarrassed around his friends, but I think when he gets older, he'll get it.

Have you talked to your wife about it?

Yes, she is supportive, in principle.

+1000000!!!! if u wont allow me in interview there shall be no interview!!!

I think this is fantastic! There are people that DO insist on being with their minor child in these interviews, you are not alone.

For anyone to insist that it can not be done, there is something very creepy about that. Bringing up the boy scout rule was perfect.

Parents get to set the rules for their children, whether they go to church or not.

I hope other parents follow your example.

Great letter!!! My cousin married a policeman who left TSCC when he had to arrest a high up muckity muck who was sexually abusing girls your son's age. His well being is the most important thing not a stupid interview.

The guy who was the so-called "bishop" in the ward I was in as a teenager was a police sergeant with, at that time, 25+ years on the force, and he absolutely thought he was doing nothing wrong interviewing kids by themselves, intimidating them, telling rape victims it was all their fault.

I thought he should have been fired from the police force for what he was doing.

Mormons with the title of Bishop are next to Gods in righteousness ;-)

This looks really good. LDS leaders need to be reminded that no matter what authority they think they have, parents have so much more authority when it comes to their children.

If I may make a suggestion: when you send this letter to the bishop, please send copies to the Stake President and to your attorney. Make your decisions concerning your children known to everyone involved as well as someone who can be your advocate should anyone attempt to challenge or subvert your decisions.

Yes this is awesome!

I like your letter; as others have suggested, cc it to appropriate individuals.

The bishop may be an "authoritative religious figure", and he may be a lawyer, but there is one thing he is almost certainly not:

qualified in the role of pastoral counseling (ie, the bearer of a masters degree in that discipline).


There is no way that he should ever be allowed to question your son without another party present.
------------------------------------------------------

If the bishop isn't among that small population of "relaxed" mormon clergy, you may be confronted with a reactionary priesthood ego. Be ready for that - and don't let him intimidate you.

Good luck.

It's your child. You have the right. Plain and simple. Good job!

I love the email. It reminds him that he is full of sh!t.

Now for the kicker, simply stop discussing it. You've stated your position, just make it nonnegotiable.

For any answer that comes back other than “OK” simply say that you are sorry he feels that way, but he may not have the interview.

If he attempts to question your position, simply state that it is nonnegotiable.

For the leaders immersed in Church culture, it's just "the way it has always been done", to interview people alone. Somehow, people feel the "mantle" they have authorizes them to direct access to anyone, including teenager girls. I've interviewed people of all ages, including small and teenager girls and have talked about sexuality and chastity with them. At the time, I felt so weird and embarassed, but I thought that since every other leader did it and noone complained, it was just probably me that was overreacting.

Now that I'm out of the Church, it's just so glaringly out of place.

Are you a former bishop? I haven't taken time to search your posts but I seem to recall people referring to you as being a bishop who recently left the church. If that's the case, thanks for the comments. If somebody at your level could break free, there's hope for everybody.

With my kids, I told the bishop that my wife or I wanted to be in any meetings they had with my kids. He was happy to oblige, and commended us for being involved.

Funny thing about mormonism. If god runs the church, he can't make up his mind. God seems to be only as smart as the local bishop.

"God seems to be only as smart as the local bishop"

That made me laugh!

Thanks

He claims the stake president made the ultimate decision to not let me sit in, which is why I challenged him to do the right thing and stand up to the sp.

I wanted to include this snarky quote in that paragraph (referencing the sp to the bishop), but my wife wisely advised me to keep the email professional.

“When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan–it is God’s plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give direction, it should mark the end of controversy….” (Improvement Era, June 1945, p. 354)

Send it certified, remember to write the certified article number on the letter as well as the envelope sticker.

By doing so I think you can be reasonably sure the bish will not try to stealth interview your kid.

A stealth interview after such a warning would look very,very bad.

I don't believe the bishop has any legal right to dictate the terms of meeting and talking to your son. As his parent you have
all the rights. Don't let him meet with your son since he will not
consider your feelings as a parent. I can't believe that this bishop would be so unfeeling .... besides whats the harm of being there, or does this bishop have something to hide? I can't believe anyone would bow down to this ego inflated creep.

I've heard similar stories where the bishop just agrees. And if he doesn't I suspect the SP will comply with your wishes.

Good luck

Bravo for standing up for your son and your family.

The bishop is not going to like the fact that you have been combing through the handbook for Bishops and Stake Presidents.

Tell him you want to privately interview his daughter to decide if she is staying sweet.

:-)

Stick to your guns on this. Make sure your son knows that if they try to chat with him alone to ask questions about you or his behavior you need to know.

It's a good time to teach your kids that a lot of people think religion is an OK place for adults to nose into private lives. Just say no!

Great email. The fact that Mormons think it is perfectly okay to let their children be alone in a room with a Bishop is testament to how out of touch they really are. Especially in this day and age.

I like it.

I also sympathize with your family participation and expectations they have, because of their belief in TSSC. It is certainly your right to navigate that storm with caution. I hope your efforts pay off in the long run and you're able to escape Mormonism with your wife and children.

My thoughts on the email:

You played the sexual interrogation subject well, stated well and without an accusatory tone, just facts.

As I commented on in the earlier thread, I like the well stated approach towards the honesty aspect of the interaction. Just like the bishop knows he masturbated, and that the vast majority (all) of the young people he interviews masturbate. If he asks these young people directly about the big M and they say "no", he then knows they lie.

I think that if your son learns he need not lie, and if the Bishop learns that your son is not a liar, that could be a positive outcome of the process.

I also liked that you built the Bishop an escape hatch out of the deal with the Stake President