I need some advice on how to cope with my issue. I just talked to my wife about who she will chose, and she said she'll chose the church over our marriage. This got me really upset and I don't know what to do. I am still shaking and angry over her answer. I love her more than anything and I don't want to lose her and the kids.

A couple of months ago I told her I was done with the Church and that I knew it wasn't true. But it was hard for her to understand this and her mother had to talk sense into her so she didn't leave.

She's really intelligent and she knows everything about Joseph Smith's polygamy issues and other questionable doctrines about the church but she still says it’s true. Even after my rigorous effort in trying to explain to her that the Book of Abraham was false. And once I studied it and realized that it was false my whole belief in the LDS religion came down with it. Because as I explained to her, the Book of Abraham is a stone holding up the whole pillar, to which the BOM is the cornerstone, but take away one of those stones and the whole pillar comes stumbling down. That was what the Book of Abraham was to me, I knew right there and then that it wasn't true.

I never knew about the polygamy issues that Joseph Smith had or the many other questionable doctrine until I said I was done and started reading up on everything else. So I can say that I knew that the LDS church was false through personal study and inspiration and not because of anti-Mormon literature which I didn't start reading until a few months, after I knew that the Church was false.

So if anyone can give me some insight into saving my marriage, I will be most appreciative. I just don't know why she would chose the church over me and our family. I really don't.

better advice than I can and I'm sure they will post.

These women really don't know what they are in for, becoming a divorced woman with kids in the LDS church. They seem to think you can recreate a family with a man who isn't the childrens' father and that he will love them like you do. They seem to think that step families are no big deal. AND that there are really neat divorced men out there just waiting to marry them. Most are in for a rude awakening.

I'd like to say call her bluff, but I've seen too many people on this board end up divorced.

I did lose my marriage. My ex is gay. I married him because I was supposed to save him. We left the lds church together, but I couldn't save my marriage. Your wife is a FOOL.

I should add, does your wife really believe in the lds church? What ever happened to endure to the end? I would have stayed with my husband to the very end, hoping that some day things would change. Of course, I don't feel that way now because I want him to be his authentic self, but I would have ENDURED to the end if I still believed in the lds church. It amazes me how many women just throw away a good man.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2014 09:22PM by cl2.

[QUOTE]I should add, does your wife really believe in the lds church?[/QUOTE]

That's the issue, she really does believe in it. However I will take Greyfort's advice and take things really slowly.

That one's hard for me, because my first instinct is to say to her, "Yeah, well I hope you and the Church will be very happy together," and be the one to walk out on her.

But I know that's not what you have in mind.

I've never been married, but the one theme that I see repeating itself over and over again from couples who have been in this situation is to advise you to take things very, very slowly.

Don't push her. Let her have some time to adjust to your new position. Just be patient and loving.

That's about all you can do really. If you push, she'll just push back.

Thank you, I'll try to follow that advice.

What to do?
Even after she has heard much evidence, she is still hanging on to what I call the "house with NO foundation" mentality.

You could ask how long she'd want to live in your house if the foundation completely crumbled leaving the house above it in shambles.

If that doesn't do it, then show her the door. Make sure you go for custody of the kids because believing in that moron cult is a sure sign of instability (after being presented with all of the evidence) and rejecting said evidence.

Also tell her NOT to be on a jury since her judgment is so clouded.

That's the hard thing, its really hard to talk to her about the church because she puts up a defensive wall and gets really mad about it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2014 09:45PM by Maximus.

My wife was a divorced mother because her TBM hubby dumped her. I came along and we hit it off, but she sort of expected me to be her kid's new dad. I put a stop to that concept right away. I told her and her kids that I wasn't their new dad. They have a father, and I expect to be friends with him as much as possible, and to be a friend to them, but one who would not put up with any BS. It worked out fine.

When I stopped believing it was during empty-nest. My wife's a realist. I told her she can be TBM, she told me she loves me even if I don't believe. I feel lucky that it worked out that way. I think my wife knows which side her bread is buttered on. If you don't know that old idiom, look it up.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2014 09:45PM by rationalist01.

I'm going to have to take this one slow. Thanks for sharing your experience.

Can you get her to go to marriage counseling with you? Preferably with a nevermo counselor.

That's what I've been thinking too. But we live in UT county where almost every counsellor is mormon.

I've been trying to move away from UT County but it's hard because this is where we both work.

Never be violent and never raise your voice to her within ear shot of the kids, And for gosh sakes never move out (you go from 50/50 to 80/20 her holding most of the cards) of the house. In the mean time if the kids ask why youre not going to church you can tell them that you learnt the Joesph Smith was NOT a prophet of God.

Try this: "Well, that's fine. However, I for one would like to build our marriage on a good, solid foundation, and not on the shifting sands of the polygamies of Joseph Smith."

My wife handled the initial word of my exit from the church reasonably well, though her initial response was that she wasn't interested in changing her mind. Based on my limited sample size of exactly 1 couple, I'd make the recommendations below. Both my wife and I are fully out now, but your mileage may vary.

1) Give her time to process. If a family member dies in a car crash, the make and model of the vehicles involved is not generally important immediately. She just took a major trauma -- she needs time.

2) Make it clear that it is important for her to understand why YOU left, not that it is important to understand WHY you left. I'm trying to figure out a good way to write this out, but it boils down to this: You have to have her have a greater emotional investment in understanding you than she does in the church. Therefore, it is not you trying to teach her facts; it is, instead, her desire to understand you that must be at the forefront. If you cannot accomplish this, all the facts in the world won't matter.

3) Make emotional appeals. Not melodramatic "If you love me you'll do X" sort of appeals, but appeals that indicate why you, emotionally, cannot stay in the church. I told my wife I couldn't imagine trying to explain to a future 14-year-old daughter of mine that she was to be wed to a man nearly 3 times her age, nor could I justify such an act. Could she?

4) Use opportunities. If she wants to pay tithing, have a conversation about it. Why is she paying? Where is the money going?

5) Don't act superior. Religion is an emotional choice, not a rational one. People that are religious are not any dumber -- it's generally a mechanism of acculturation. The non-Mormon culture may be foreign to her.

6) Give her something meaningful to replace it with. Go see a movie or go to lunch or go shopping or something. When I left, I put all the money I would have paid in tithing into a deconversion budget. That bought books my wife expressed interest in reading regarding church history, sleeveless dresses, new underwear, whatever.

7) Separate good things Mormons have done from their doctrine. I know lots of decent Mormons. People that've loaned me a tool, helped me out, etc. That doesn't make their religion 'true' though.

8) Don't go nuts on your own departure. Don't start drinking, smoking, watching porn, or anything else that would validate in her mind the idea of the sinning apostate. Buy a bottle of bubbly and wait to drink it until you're both out.

In business terms, reduce the friction of your wife's exit.

I'll iterate again: Evidence is irrelevant in emotional decision-making. You want to help her break an emotional bond forged and strengthened every day since she was born. She was instructed from a young age that a temple marriage is everything. Many exemplars in her life (parents, siblings) are happy in the church. You'll have to help her realize, emotionally, that the church is not the only road to happiness, though others may find it to be so.

Thank you for your advice, that is really what I needed. I guess for guys its either black or white, nothing is really gray. I will have to treat her differently, I guess I'll have to start with being a little more humble.

For many women, the church is something they feel really good about and that if they're loyal to it, it's the "happily ever after" they were promised. Men are often the ones that add up the A and B and C and come up with the D.

So coming at your wife with all the logical reasons why it's a sham is not likely to get through to her. You need to give her emotional knowledge that the church cannot be the way to happiness, rather than the obvious logical reasons why it's false.

You're right, absolutely right. I will have to come at it from a different point of view.

This sounds a bit harsh but... Let her. It's her choice. If the cult is more important than you, then you deserve soemone who puts you as more important than anything else. After all, are you not willing to put her above everything else?

HH =)

She is reacting out of fear as all she knows is her long established religious, familial culture. She is responding to the rug being pulled out from under her and she is hanging onto all she knows. It's home. It's a comfort zone. Try to put yourself in her shoes and consider what she feels.

I'd advise taking it very slow from here on out. Refrain from any negative comments about the LDS Church. I'd suggest a truce...give it time.... agree to be supportive of her in all things, including her religious beliefs even though you no longer agree.

We can't change other people. I also suggest forgetting any notion that there is something you can say or do to change her mind. Love her: As-Is!

In our case, we had an understanding. We agreed to disagree. No ultimatums, no threats, no forced choices. He asked what I wanted, I said: Live the 11th Article of Faith, and he did!

11th Article of Faith
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

This is never easy, but hopefully you'll find a way to preserve your family.

Thank you for your kind words. I'm a convert to the Church, I joined when I was 10 years old and having a father who's not lds, let alone Christian does give me a different background than my wife whose parents on both lines are from polygamous mormon families. I only joined because my mother was LDS, and after many years of her trying to make me join, I finally did, just to get her off my back.

My father didn't care, because he's not religious whatsoever. However today he does regret that he didn't put a stop to my mother's pestering.

I will refrain from any negative comments about the church except on this forum :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2014 10:19PM by Maximus.

I had to shut up about the church. Nearly bit my tongue off!@!

I was a convert at about 20, so my 7th generation husband had some understanding of my different background. I have written an essay on how we made it work that I have posted several times.

Just stop talking about Mormonism.

Yes, i know - communication is the key to a good relationship and all of that. But hear me out.

I know that a lot of us guys think that if we can just explain certain things in just the right way that these gals will have a light bulb moment and everything will be solved. Unfortunately I think the exact opposite happens. Every less than positive thing you say about TSCC (even undisputed facts!) just makes you more and more 'the enemy'

My TBM ex had (has?) her peronal identity so entwined with Mormonism that any slight on Mormonism is a slight on her. Your wife is probably very similar.

Look, i know what it feels like to watch the person you love turn to ice right before your eyes. I know exactly what it feels like to have your wife say that any stuffed white shirt would be better than you. I also have had a lot of years to read these posts and see how things work out.

I suspect that what we experience is actually very similar to what they are experiencing: their loved one is becoming 'satan' right before their eyes.

I know you're not satan and I know it's not fair but if you want to save your marriage you're going to have to just concentrate on your marriage. Buy yourself some time and then if you get past this divorce threat and you feel like you have a strong enough relationship then you can start working on the Mormonism problem.

In the meantime - vent your anger somewhere else. Join a gym or pick up a sport or whatever works for you.

Good luck

Thank you for the encouraging words, I will concentrate on my marriage and perhaps use a different means to vent my frustration, which can be the gym. Heck that gives me an opportunity to lose a couple of pounds too. :)

I don't know how it went down with you guys but too often the person leaving get too "gung go" about convincing the other the church is false and get impatient and argumentive of the don't immediately feel the same way.

When you discuss the church and it's problems learn how to present the information to her WITHOUT making her defensive. In other words, don't make her feel like she has to defend the church. Mormonism is difficult to defend and if you come across as trying to CONVINCE her to agree with you she will just get upset and put up walls. Make it clear that you respect her beliefs and choices and she doesn't have to agree with you. Make sure you come across as simply explaining why YOU gave a difficult time believing and not why SHE has to AGREE with your new world view. Be sensitive to how you present these new found truths. You need to give her time to get used to the truth. She may or May or may not wake up to the truth...but you can't force the timetable.

You have to give her time to get used to this new information, both the evidence against the church and the reality of you leaving it. Treat her like she just lost a loved one. Don't Become a BETTER man and husband to her. Make her WANT YOU more than the church. Provide her with her emotional needs BETTER than the church.

Thank you, that's a really good way to look at it.

Don't take it too hard. What you're asking is for your wife to choose you over God. Many people put God first.

The problem with Mormonsim, is that God and the Church as the same -- the Church is God on earth.

You need to understand this in order to help her see that the two are not the same... Some people never do get it.

You are not going to sway her to your point of view (at least as things stand.) I would quit trying to deconvert her and aim instead for an attitude of mutual respect (as SusieQ#1 suggests above.) Do you think she could come to terms with you being inactive? How about twice a month SM attendance only?

What I would do is have a conversation with her. First tell you that you love her and want to stay married to her if at all possible. Tell her that you will support her involvement with the church and your childrens' involvement with the church, but that you will need to drastically decrease or stop your own involvement with it. Then I would tell her that if she chooses to divorce you, a very typical custody arrangement is for dads to get alternate weekends and summers. If she chooses the divorce route, on the weekends and summers the kids are with you, you and they will not be attending church nor doing any church activities whatsoever.

In other words, I would try to work with her but at the same time make her realize that she doesn't hold all the cards.

I know this probably isn't what you want to hear, but if that is what she is saying, in all likelihood she means it. My now ex and I were able to make it work for nearly 7 years after I left the cult. At the end though, what did us in was that she slowly grew more and more attached to the cult, almost as compensation for my apostasy. Never in a million years did I see that coming. I really believed if she loved me she would be willing to see things thru my eyes. I left her religious beliefs alone, she worshipped as she wished, but that wasn't enough. I HOPE that doesn't happen to you, but if it happened to me, it can happen to anyone. Good luck!!

Another thing men often misunderstand is the important role the church plays in building a young mom's very much needed social network. Especially in a place like Utah County. It might help to gradually make friends with families that aren't LDS, through charity work, coaching, hobbies, whatever. She won't leave if all her friends and babysitters are LDS.

You seriously have to move out of Utard county, out of Utah completely. Even if you have to take a job that pays less, get out of the moridor. That will help. Once you and your family are out of that horrible environment (it is completely toxic), things have some hope of improvement, but if you stay there, I see no hope.

It took my wife around 6 years to come around after I told her I did not believe. She and I were lifelong members from all member families and TBMs. At first she did not want to hear what I said. I gave her the book "In Sacred loneliness, the plural wives. Of joseph smith" by Compton. Big headway with that one. It is devistating and pretty much unchallengeable. In the words of lds leadership and wives themselves. Theb we spoke about all the othwr issues over the years. Today, she still attends but she does not believe very much. Her friends are LDS and she is pretty quick to skip church for any reason, like we have a good family trip or activity we like better. No guts to leave, but maybe soon. It is good now. She knows its a sham, just hard to admit. As far as the real price, tithong, we don't pay. I agree with others, take your time. Things get better everyday.

Have you ever heard of "The Principle of Least Interest?"

Basically, it states that the person who has the least interest in a relationship is the one who dominates -- the one who calls the shots.

I hate to say it but, from your posting, it appears that your wife has the upper hand because you have been too devoted and doting as a husband.

I suggest that you back off in your affection so that your wife can feel less secure in the relationship. She will then most likely do whatever it takes to preserve the marriage.

"What do I do when wife say's that she'll chose the church over our marriage"

Goodbye.

Build a social network of friends OUTSIDE of the church. If she has good girlfriends who are NOT Mormon, I think it will help this transition greatly.