I just saw the summary of DCP's FAIR conference session -- regarding the Letter to a CES Director. I cannot believe how dishonest and misleading his summary is... did anyone attend the conference or stream it?

How can anyone listen to him and take him seriously?


Here's the summary from the Times and Seasons website:

-------------------------
4:15 – Dan Peterson, Some Reflections on That Letter to a CES Director. Dan needs no introduction. He was a guest blogger at T&S in 2004.

Introduced by the FAIR blogger Steven Smoot. No, you can’t cross-post any of my posts, thank you.

Summary of Dan’s presentation: The CES Letter is a lengthy compendium of standard anti-LDS criticisms (“quick and dirty objections”). Wearisome reading; a betrayal narrative. The author “jumped ship too soon,” because there are adequate answers to all the questions raised. Cites Jeff Lindsay for “the Big List” approach to criticism. Covers a few issues from the Letter: Asian DNA, the “principal ancestors” phrase in the Book of Mormon introduction until 2006, archeology, the limited geography model, Ferguson and the NWAF, Vernal Holley maps, James Strang, the First Vision, witnesses to the plates, the Book of Abraham, polygamy, and misleading but popular illustrations of Joseph Smith translating. Objects that the Letter author ignores any positive evidence and ignores any published rebuttals of the criticisms made. Endorses Sorenson’s Mormon’s Codex (a very big book). Cites Royal Skousen’s work on the original Book of Mormon text supporting oral dictation (in the original manuscript; the printer’s manuscript shows transcription errors rather than dictation errors).

You can’t play just defense. Some affirmative works he recommends: Read Richard Lloyd Anderson’s Investigating the Book of Mormon Witnesses; Opening the Heavens, edited by John Welch; Grant Hardy’s Understanding the Book of Mormon; Echoes and Evidences of the Book of Mormon, edited by Donald Parry.

...he's a warm body; willing to throw himself under the bus for LDSInc. He's disposable, and he knows it. Probably has a shelf-life of a few years............yawn.

Just simple concise answers is all we ask. Where are they? Faith promoting answers or adequate answers will not do.

Dan Petersen is analogous to the guy telling people to stay in their rooms when a ship is sinking

I hope DCP keeps "getting away with it" for a LONG, LONG, LONG, time.

Although they refuse to believe it, the actions of DCP and his ilk have done more to cause TBM's to question, research, and eventually leave the church than any anti-Mormon material could possibly achieve.

The FAIR conference and similar other Mormon circle-jerk conferences are set up for re-assurance and re-confirmation for TBM sheep members. You've seen them...they have that kind of Stepford glazed look on their faces. The nice part is that many of the attendees have never heard of the CES letter. Or problems with the Book of Abraham. Or spiritual eyes vs. physical eyes...etc.

The attention given these topics will cause some to do their own research...perhaps to strengthen their own testimonies, perhaps to use as ammo against critics, or perhaps to shore up a lesson they are preparing for Elder's Quorum or Relief Society. The problem occurs when their research doesn't match up to the untruthful babbble they have been fed at these conferences. This causes more deep research until the realization comes that they have not been dealt with truthfully. Then the question, "What else is the church not being truthful about?" At that point it is game...set...match.

So to DCP and others like him, PLEASE...PLEASE...PLEASE keep on keeping on. Keep planting those seeds that so far have led to some of the church's brightest and finest leaving the fold. The ex-mo numbers are growing like never before. I know that I, and others I know, have you and folks like you to thank. The leaders at the Maxwell Institute saw this damage you were doing and ejected your ass. All I can say is keep up the good work.

Keep on defending the indefensible guys! Your efforts are laughable.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2014 06:43PM by Susan I/S.

Danny got slapped down to his knees. Not allowed to speak ill of John, nope, nope nope.

Elder Kevin Price Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Although they refuse to believe it, the actions of
> DCP and his ilk have done more to cause TBM's to
> question, research, and eventually leave the
> church than any anti-Mormon material could
> possibly achieve.
>

SO TRUE!! I only read the CES Letter because Fair had a "debunking", so I knew I wouldn't be deceived. If there was anything of concern, they'd be able to explain it away.

So, I was a bit shocked to discover how much they confirmed as truth. It was because of them that I believed the CES Letter as much as I did and ended up leaving the church over it (same story for hubby too!).

"The author 'jumped ship too soon,' because there are adequate answers to all the questions raised."

"Jumped ship too soon," huh? How about Kerry Shirts? Did he "jump ship too soon" too? The Kerry Shirts who was FAIR's original "director of research", and one of the most vocal cyber-apologists for like 15 years? Who attended FAIR conferences for years and videotaped and interviewed speakers? Did Kerry "jump ship too soon," or was 15 years not long enough for him to study the issues and conclude that FAIR's answers are inadequate?

"Cites Jeff Lindsay for 'the Big List' approach to criticism."

Is that the same Jeff Lindsay who made an utter fool of himself in 2002 on alt.religion.mormon by theorizing that the Noachian flood wasn't global, even though church doctrine clearly states that it was?

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon200.htm

Is this ignorant, lying, babbling fool the type of person Daniel Peterson "cites" as a legitimate scholarly source?

The same way he gets away with claiming that horse bones have been found dating to the time of Christ.

at 0:50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkydMSmv1Zo

He tells TMBs what they want to hear, truth be damned.

Anyone wanting the truth will eventually realize that mopologists are not to be trusted.

Jeremy's letter was so concise and honest. It took a simple, yet sophisticated, approach to the investigation of TSCC's claims. What kills FAIR is that Jeremy has the truth on his side. Jeremy has a number of scholars and honest researchers, including LDS, at his disposal...FAIR is an admitted group of apologists that really rub people the wrong way.
I took 2 classes from R.L. Anderson and got to know him as well as any student could I suppose. I bought his book about the three witnesses and read it. It was a book cited by Peterson. At the end of the day he, like FAIR, wants it both ways. If there was a critical testimony against the witnesses, Anderson dismissed it as a subversive attempt to discredit them. Favorable testimony was treated as obviously authentic. Questionable quotes from witnesses were misquotes, out of context, or deliberately changed because if the evil plans of men. Bottom line,and I believe Anderson would admit this if he were being honest, he wrote the book with the conclusion already decided. He didn't let the evidence take him anywhere, Unlike the works of Brody and Roberts. I actually questioned him about it as a TBM.
Anderson, like every other LDS scholar has a dilemma. They either tow the line or be ostracized in their own community...most chose to hold the rod. Imagine if Anderson wrote an honest critique living in Happy Valley as a tenured Religion Professor. That would be like a Muslim Cleric yelling "Mohammed Sucks" at prayer time; only the LDS probably wouldn't chop his head off...I think :)
I'm with everyone else...keep Peterson talking. Think of his rhetoric like Herpes, it will keep on giving. It kills them that a California kid like Jeremy can disprove a century of dogma adhered to by millions of people in under 100 pages. Jeremy is my friend and he is good people...I'm out.
PS...I've learned more from Brother Jake about the church than in 40 years of study. Long live Brother Jake!!!

"I've learned more from Brother Jake about the church than in 40 years of study. Long live Brother Jake!!!"

Indeed :)

Peterson is a liar, I went to school with one of his daughters and he's paid HUGE to make things up. I can't believe any body takes this clown seriously?

Oh, I wish you could spill, but you need to protect yourself. He's vicious online, going after people in unethical ways. Then he paints himself as a martyr and his sycophants crowd round him. But he seems dishonest and disingenuous.

I had written a review about a book (I don't even remember what it was, now) but there was something in it about Mormons that wasn't especially flattering, and I echoed that sentiment in my review.

Some people agreed, others didn't. One very snarky post was from a "Dan Peterson." I asked, "Would you be the same Dan Peterson who works as an apologist for the Mormon church?" He replied, "I am."

I couldn't resist. Honest. I wrote back: "GOTCHA!"

That was the last I heard from him.

"Objects that the Letter author ignores any positive evidence"

Hmmmmmm, unlike the Apologists who always present a very balanced view. They'd rather tie themselves up in the most ludicrous mental knots than even suggest that Joseph might have mistranslated the BoA.

...who once wrote on alt.religion. mormon, referring to evidence for the BOM, that:

"the score for the BofM HAS to remain ZERO in your mind"

I responded:

The BOM score doesn't have to remain zero in my mind, Kerry. It just is, without any help from me.

"The author “jumped ship too soon,” "

No one jumps the LDS ship too soon. They jump much later than they really should have done because they give the church the benefit of the doubt and continue researching to make sure.

I went over some things over and over again. I emailed FAIR once to make extra sure and they just confirmed to me what I knew but tried to put a BS spin on it.

I also dialogued with SHIELDS for some time, but he/they eventually gave up once they knew I was debating with a TBM church member over some issues. Every so called AntiMormon claim I asked about was being acknowledged as being true by SHIELD but they just tried to make an excuse for it.

All these LDS apologists are bullcrappers. They will waste people's time with their time wasting bull.

They only thing they are good for is for comedy value and nothing more. I don't think they are even worthy of deserving politeness. They are after all trying to convince people to believe in a lying cult fraud.

How does he he get away with "it"

When Daniel Peterson gets up in the morning he is still Daniel Peterson, when he looks in thr mirror he sees Daniel Peterson, and sfter he says his bedtime prayer and lays his head on the pillow, softly crying. His prayers go unanswered, he remains Daniel Peterson, resigned to repeat the same cycle until he goes to see his Mormon Father in Heaven, or simething else maybe.

Sorry to come back to an old thread but:

this caught my eye, sorry if it's been posted already.


http://www.patheos.com/blogs/enigmaticmirror/2014/08/09/all-of-you-are-cowards/

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/enigmaticmirror/2014/08/09/blair-consults-a-lawyer/

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/enigmaticmirror/2014/08/11/the-affair-at-fair-conclusion/

On one level it is hilarious - if the members of FAIR want to be taken as serious academics, why do their foremost posterboys continually behave like children in public?

and he can see himself in youtube videos getting laughs from mindless audience members who see him as a hero, while insulting Atheists and anti mormons.....he won't be admitting anything anytime soon. I for one think deep down inside he knows it's BS. He and the rest of FAIR know they have no stand, and there is NO evidence for their religion. Just like the big 15, they have all come to that realization and can only fall back on a "Testimony". If all a religion has is it's "I know it's true"....I can hear the same thing when I watch a documentry on the FLDS. Same pattern, same testimonies, same no evidence.

Danny....the hero in his own mind!

Outside of the LDS Apologetics bubble this person is irrelevant because he is not in good stead with leaders in the field,,, and he is a nobody in the bigger pond which we like to call "reality." Being ignored by peers and worshipped by the most ignorant is equal to being the guy selling snake oil to a community with one physcian, and a thousand of the intellectually impaired. Guess which one gets the gold? Guess which one cures illness?

Again... Daniel Who??

HH =)

After reading DCP's stuff over a period of years and deeply studying the origins and history of LDS, inc., My current impression of DCP is about equivalent to my opinion of Ronald McDonald.

You all are actually making me feel sorry for him.

From the sounds of it, there's nowhere else for him to go.

Ummm, Swan Laake?

Peterson doesn't HAVE any daughters. Never HAS had.

I actually KNOW him. Where are YOU coming from?

You gotta hand it to him.....

He was mauled...pissed...thrown under the bus by his Church that he defended so staunchly....

He is still there....