http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58276431-78/lds-women-eubank-faith.html.csp

Daughters of God, wives of Jesus, mothers of all living? But no, you can't be in leadership roles reserved for men.

"The church needs a new vocabulary, she said, for such positions as “mission presidents’ wives,” who play a vital role but have no unique title." Yeah, that'll fix everything. Just slap a few nice-sounding titles onto the usual second-class citizen roles.

"While young LDS men are setting up chairs, shoveling walks and other physical tasks, she said, 'young LDS women may be in danger of learning passive helplessness.'" Right. LDS women need to work harder than they already do.

From the comments by readers:

“we need a way to describe the female contribution to priesthood. We are a faith community of priests and priestesses. We need a way to talk about that.”
So it’s not the actual 2nd-class status that bothers you, just the vocabulary that’s used to describe your inferior position in your church?


[…] the women that don’t fit the “mold” will still stand up for the church is because they are promised that in the “after life” they will have a husband and a family. From where? The answer is a belief they don’t like to talk about much. They believe in polygamy in the after life. The polygamists and the modern day church have that In common. How sad a “fairy tail” that is.

the cult is well, a cult. they keep women down. men submissive.
it's all based on fear. fear to lose your status in the cult in this world and the afterlife as you alluded.

they crave on fear; members give them power voluntarily out of fear. it took me years to figure that out. seriously. i never thought they would try to harm children, women, anybody. they do not physically attack people now a days (they did back in the day) but now it's more a psychological tactic to keep the masses in line.

resign and find a new life. been there, done that. never been happier.

I think it shows that male cult leaders are more worried than they'd like to admit when they start pushing women like Sharon Eubanks to address the Ordain Women movement.

Even when that speech only obliquely addresses "feminist" movements within mormonism, it is still noting the potential power such movements have.

That speech also provides only superficial, cosmetic approaches to bridging the gap between male leaders and what the women want. Without meaning to, the speech provides a window into how hopeless the situation really is in the mormon cult.

I wouldn't bother, personally. I'd just leave the cult and take my sisters with me. But I also understand some women thinking, hoping that they can change leadership policies by working from the inside.

When I read this stuff with my ex Mormon experience, it makes me roll my eyes too.

When I look at it as a sociological process, it is far more interesting. We have an oppressed group going through the same steps that any group does. They do in fact have to develop a language, and change some titles. In the 70s, feminists were also derided endlessly because we wanted women called 'postal carriers' not postmen. But changing language does change perception, and it does empower people.

I love watching this whole process. One of the biggest challenges an emerging group has is to define its goals without losing all its power to infighting. These women are doing that right now. Whatever Kate Kelly was known for, it sure wasn't making friends with average Mormon women. Her group was very confrontational with the TBM women who didn't see the world her way. Now we can see if the remaining women can get past that vitriol with each other and coalesce into something stronger.

Fascinating. But I too wish they'd just get smart and walk out.

The women perpetuate their own oppression. If they buy into the culture, they obey and enforce. They raise their sons and daughters to do the same.

If women simply stopped attending, the male dominated priesthoods would end. But no. Women keep enabling and validating it.

i think you are right on the money.
i never looked at it that way.

My TBM sister always said she was glad she was LDS so she "didn't have to work outside the home."

I was in the workplace for 40 years in some very high stress, hardworking positions, and I NEVER worked as hard as she did, raising a zillion kids, holding church callings, waiting on her husband hand and foot, taking care of other church members.

Her house always looked like a bomb had gone off in it, but she by-God ground her own wheat.

amyslittlesister Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Her house always looked like a bomb had gone off
> in it, but she by-God ground her own wheat.


I'm still laughing over that!!

Yeah, it's amazing what a little bit of brainwashing here and there can do to women and how most of them go along like blind little sheep doing what they were preprogrammed to think and say. I find it amazing how, when the topics of women's roles within the church comes up, you get almost the exact same wording and view point from all the TBM women.

> Her house always looked like a bomb had gone off
> in it, but she by-God ground her own wheat.

Yeah, that made me laugh too, but in a bitter way. It's all too true.

You'll note that in the article, the women are asked to do more work, not less. Help those men and boys set up the chairs and do other physical labor in LDS meeting places, by god.

Remember sisters, if you don't help out with menial labor at church and do all the housework yourselves, your highfalootin' husband might not call your name at the resurrection! And you know as well as anyone that without him you ain't gettin' into no Celestial Kingdom. And that, my sisters of the faith, is all the power you need in man's world.

My kids, and most of my nieces/nephews are adults or soon becoming so.

And I'm noticing that my sisters/in-law are having a hard time. They've spent the last 20+ years being the at-home-mom. Now they find themselves with nothing to do. They find themselves no longer looking young or appealing. They have no marketable skills to get work. They aren't comfortable doing social/volunteer work because they're not comfortable in non-mormon circles.

So, what are they doing? Trying to do church busywork, or tinkering around the house, while trying to maintain some kind of pride and self-esteem while power hubby is off at work during the week and in leadership positions at church on Sundays. They are 40+ year old dependents.

just the Simplest of decisions reinforces their roles; I'm referring to the 'No Pants For Women' (unwritten) rule.


The LDS church (organization) is like a turd sitting in the bowl; if it's been there long enough, it looses a bit of shape, but you still know what it is....



just sayin'

Or what name you call it, it is still a turd.

And what is the thing with the titles? I don't get it, never have. How does some made up title equal respect? Who cares! Notice the title function here is disabled as is the post count. People and their actions should be able to stand on their own. Hell, I only use admin once in a blue moon (like for legal things) and I hate doing it. It seems so damn pretentious.

Sadly, in societies where women are second class citizens, they often use what little power they have to keep other women down and in their place. The mormon church is no different. How about one Sunday all women have the "flu" and stay home. Let men conduct church by themselves. Because without women, the men in the church will have no power either.

Love the vision of men filing in the meeting house for priesthood, and as the next church meeting time roles around, no one else shows up.

Me thinks as the minutes ticked away, it would not take long for most of the men to skidaddle, head home, grab their fishin' poles, jump in their trucks and head for the hills.

See, I can get revelations too!