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Posted by: mindog ( )
Date: August 25, 2014 04:36AM

So, my dad sent me a letter recently detailing recent family events that I already knew about, since I regularly call home. It's all very passive aggressive and bland, in the sense that you can read the nostalgic sigh into every period and comma. In a lot of ways he sounds like his life is all behind him, when he probably has another 15 to 20 years of good health, maybe more, all ahead of him. He's retired with significant employment potential, but despite superficial efforts, does not seem to be able to find new employment, though he does devote full time efforts to his Church calling (literally 40-50 hours a week). Financially my parents are scraping by on his retirement income, despite superficial appearances.

The interesting part comes into the postscript, where he acknowledges that he's come across "issues" in the past, that they have caused doubts, but that the BoA critique is a new one for him. That these issues have come and then gone eventually in their significance for him. Then he puts in this loaded statement about deciding on the reasons why he's made the commitments (to the church...I think?) that he has. That there are always challenges and that remaining consistent clears up these issues, even if not everything is answered now in "this life".

All I can read into this is that he's subconsciously subsumed by invisible social pressures and that staying the course must be the best option, because that's what he's done so far. I wonder what he's using to prop up his "shelf" and shield off the ringing cognitive dissonance. I can't even count how many times this attitude has taken our whole large family into poverty as he made one bad employment and investment decision after another all while taking on the consequences and debt of those that deceived and manipulated him.

I don't even know what to do with this. Is this some attempt to discuss the actual issues? Is this just some warm fuzzy broadcast attempt? Is it best just to ignore it?

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: August 25, 2014 05:11AM

I would ignore it. His religious talk is about him; it's not about you. As for his income, look at the bright side -- at least he is able to support himself in retirement. Many people may not be able to do as much. And most people get to a point where, after working full time for decades, they get weary of paid employment. Your dad may be at that stage. I wouldn't judge him too harshly for it. You will get there one day as well.

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Posted by: jkjkjkjk ( )
Date: August 25, 2014 05:51AM

I would acknowledge

I would write that you respect his decisions just as you know he will respect yours and that it is heartening that he acknowledged that there are issues but although he has chosen to look past them, you cannot especially as there are far more than the BoA.

then go on to some non church type things

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Posted by: sassypants ( )
Date: August 25, 2014 05:53AM

Summer makes some excellent points. And I agree that it seems that his letter is more about him than you or your membership status.

I would add that from what you've written, the consistency your father is talking about may be valid to him. It sounds as if his professional and financial life haven't been that consistent. Perhaps he sees that reality as disheartening but takes heart in his consistent efforts and membership in the church. He may be deriving much of his self esteem from church. If that is the case, it might be best to let this letter slide.

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Posted by: themaster ( )
Date: August 25, 2014 06:27AM

As people age it gets harder and harder for them to find work that is not minimum wage. Everyone wants to hire a young person. When you are over the age of 55 often there are no jobs available. Unemployment, welfare, disability are often their only options for support. It is mentally hard growing old and no longer useful or able to make a decent living.

As for church - your dad has something to do other than wait for god to come visit him with the baptism of dirt. There is little he can donate so TSCC no longer cares about him either.

Regardless of your past - it is time to forgive and love your father.

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Posted by: onlinemoniker ( )
Date: August 25, 2014 06:42AM

Does your father know you're exmormon? If so, I'd send him the CES letter.

If he knows, he's opened a door with someone who has made an active decision that they don't agree with the church and said he has doubts as well.

Maybe he's miserable because he's working a full time job for an institution that he doesn't think he believes in any longer but he no longer has the fire in his belly he had as a younger man to do anything about it.

By your own estimate he may have 15 years left. I wouldn't want my loving parent to be saddled with ignorance the last 15 years of their life if I knew they had shared with me they had doubts. He may have been reaching out to you for help.

I'd just send it with a statement saying something like "your last letter sounds like you have some problems with the church. You know I do as well. This is something that helped clarify things for me. If you're interested, read it. I'd be happy to talk with you about it if you like." Then move on to another topic and don't bring it up again.

That's my take.

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Posted by: mindog ( )
Date: August 25, 2014 07:22AM

They already know my status in terms of how I relate to the Church. I informed them earlier this year. I didn't go into specifics of all the reasons why, though I did mention the BoA along with historical and doctrinal issues. I put in the BoA as the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

He actually loves his church work, which I think is part of the problem.

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Posted by: goatsgotohell ( )
Date: August 25, 2014 10:25AM

According to Erickson's developmental theory, the older adult (>65) is in a stage of reflecting on their life. Totally superficially this means that as we age we reflect on our life - positive experiences that match up to expectations create "integrity", failures and regret create "despair". It seems to me that this letter is reflecting and somewhat justifying his perspectives. I think we all spend a lot of time in self-talk where we choose our views - kind of like the discussions most of us have had with ourselves when we weighed the evidence, emotions, and social implications of staying in the church or leaving the church.

My read is that this letter may be justifying his life to himself and to you since he most likely realizes you don't see eye to eye on all things. From what you have said I don't get that he is really trying to change you or asking you to change him. It seems like he is just trying to put himself in a spot where he can feel good about his life. I think you hit it on the head when you questioned about how he his holding up his shelf - at this point if he lets the shelf collapse his entire life amounts to despair - if he props it up, it is valuable and fulfilling.

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Posted by: Stray Mutt ( )
Date: August 25, 2014 01:07PM

It sounds like he hasn't just retired, but retreated. It sounds like he's in endure-to-the-end mode.

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: August 25, 2014 04:52PM

There is never any need to respond to anything. Most of the time, a Mormon testimony, etc. does not require a response.
Ignore religious preaching. Doesn't appeal to me either.

I have received religious card from different religions when my husband died, and comments. It's their belief. It brings them comfort. Doesn't apply to me.

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Posted by: Tom Padley ( )
Date: August 25, 2014 06:23PM

I'm probably around your father's age and have done a lot of reflecting. But I took that project of reflection seriously and am now out of TSCC. I studied hard for a few years and found out for myself that all was false from JS's first vision forward. Your father seems to be someone who will ignore the facts and stick with the herd because it's easier. Each person has to decide their own fate in regards to their beliefs. Your father may be fishing for your input, but may not really want to hear it. My TBM wife is basically inactive, but holds onto her faith. She doesn't want to know the facts because she believes she has had a witness of the truth of the gospel according to TSCC. If at some point in the future she asks about the facts I will tell her, otherwise it's status quo. Maybe you need to let your father ask specific questions and give him answers when he is willing to listen. TBMs will not listen if they are following the herd.

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Posted by: BG ( )
Date: August 25, 2014 07:52PM

Your dad is in a reflective and self justifying mood, but he has laid a golden opportunity out in front of you..

"So dad what is it with the Book of Abraham that you found so difficult to swallow." Use the Socratic method and let him think through the cognitive dissonance, don't argue with him, ask .. and let him answer and then ask some more ...

I would also help your dad find some meaning in his life. Help him think of his own talents that might be useful for others or things he always wished he did.

I watched my dad rot in retirement, largely because my mom was in poor health and had anxiety issues and did not want to try anything new or go anyplace new. I wish I could have done more to draw them out, but I was living clear across the country in the age before the internet.

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Posted by: Adult of god nli ( )
Date: August 25, 2014 08:07PM

I agree with RG. Your father seems to have opened the door a crack to invite some discussion. He may not "love" his 50 hours a week for the morg as much as he says he does.

I think lots of men have trouble making the shift to retirement because so much of their focus was on their careers. Maybe he's ready to do some of the things he's always wanted to do, but doesn't really know how to claim his right to do so.

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Posted by: saucie ( )
Date: August 25, 2014 08:27PM

Don't do anything. If he asks you for your opinion tell him, otherwise just listen to him. Nothing is more unwanted than
unasked for opinions....don't assume he wants to discuss this
further with you, wait for him to do it again.

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Posted by: mindog ( )
Date: August 27, 2014 01:56AM

Yeah, I think I'll let it slide. I do get somewhat concerned that they will construct some false version of me in order to placate the dissonance that my situation presents them with. I know that for myself, past confrontations with criticisms of the Church, especially as a missionary, mostly served to dig me in deeper, since I normally found, what I thought were perfectly serviceable responses to the criticisms. In fact, some of the sensationalism of of the presentation of some ideas was so strident that I simply didn't look into any of these things for over ten years. I believed that there were good enough answers and that most of the criticism was just there to distract me from living the gospel and I didn't want to play that game.

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