I’ve been outside the LDS church since 2001. Prior to that I was Married in the Temple 30, years, a father of 7 children, all from the same wife, former White Coat in the Provo Temple, severed as Branch President, served as Elder Quorum President, Served and completed a 2 year full time mission, my sons serving mission or have daughter married in the temple to a RM etc etc…. I was just wondering how many others who had similar life time experience in the LDS church who have found themselves on the outside later in life, have come to the conclusion that the LDS church is just a very well run Cult. That is my conclusion. It’s been years since I have heard from any of my kids, I’m still shunned and ignored and treated as something that a good Mormon should avoid I guess. It seems so clear now, but I never saw it all the time I was in the cult. Anyone else feel this stupid?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2014 03:19AM by randy.

Nothing whatsoever to feel stupid about Randy. You did a courageous thing by leaving. The fact your family shun you is evil. Considering the fact Jeff Holland says the LDS church does NOT shun...and that he would not shun one of his own children should they leave the church should be brought to the attention of your own children, if they need proof they are doing wrong...

Ron Burr

Randy, please don't feel stupid! When presented with the facts you made a choice that was extremely difficult but honourable in its intentions. If anything, you should be commended that you did not fall prey to the "sunk cost fallacy" and decided not to devote anymore time to a lie.

You're right. The church is a cult and there is no greater evidence than the shunning that you have experienced from your family. I am so sorry that this happened to you. No so called church that purports to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, should encourage the break up of families.

I hope that you've been able to build new relationships that don't hinge on your belief in a cult. If not, many people here have some great advice on where and how you can achieve that.

I truly wish you the best. :-)

I remember in that former life that there was a saying something to the effect that once you have been a good Mormon you can't ever be a good anything else because nothing else can compare to being a Mormon. I think it had to do with the idea that it was pretty much impossible for an LDS person to leave the LDS faith and like become a Methodist or something but I'm finding that my wasted life in the LDS church pretty much ruined me for most things after Mormonism. I spent too many years saying, "Beyond a shadow of a doubt" etc and now I don't trust anyone, don't believe in anything except myself, and the only thing I want is to be left alone because I feel no matter what I hear I will never know if it's a lie or not so I pretty much just reject everyone and everything. Actually I believe in money now! It seems that it really is Money that makes the world go around and I never really understood that silly as that sounds to say out loud. I know that everything I hear now is lies in one form or another. The TV lies and filters everything that comes through it, all controlled by men just like in the LDS church who all have their own agendas. I hate the fact that I wake up and I'm turning 65 next year only to discover that my entire life has been a scam, and everything I was told and continue to be told is lies and distortions of reality. To say I have developed a negative outlook would be an understatement. What a waste the whole thing has been.

Randy and everyone else...........

Place yourself in this position (assume for a minute or so) even if it is not actually true about you in real life now: just to make a point, just assume these things have taken place and these are your beliefs....

1. You were BIC, raised in the cult forever yada yada...you are a TBM and believe in Lucifer and Jesus as brothers each with a different agenda.

2. your entire thinking system has been manipulated continually since birth

3. you read about how Lucifer (Jesus's bro) is going to carry out his plan according to what the cult believes is his plan..... remember that Lucifer is supposed to be cunning and crafty according to the cult. Lucifer is supposed to be able to entice people into doing things his way to fulfill his plan. As I recall, Lucifer's plan was to get as many people to follow him as possible by whatever means he wants to use, underhanded, evil, whatever. (enter missionaries who are lying to their investigators)

4. So, now look at the cult's history and all of the big huge pointers (in shocking pink so you can't miss them) pointing to revelations which were pure rubbish, DNA evidence, everything that the cult stands on falling apart (foundation of jello).

5. After really thinking about this, and pretending that Lucifer is real etc., who do you think is running this cult? Every single pointer points to Lucifer as the head of the church. EVERY SINGLE ONE.

6. Once you understand that, it is much easier to leave it behind as a major intelligent leap out of evil for yourself and your family.

Please stop feeling stupid or duped and all of those things. Lucifer is supposedly a smart guy. You were duped by someone who is supposedly the best manipulator in the business. Look at JS and Lucifer....talk about manipulation at its finest. JS was channelling Lucifer not any God or angel if you think on the LDS lines, it makes complete sense that this is what happened.

Now that you know what is going on, the only stupid thing you can do now is stay in Lucifer's cult and to continue to stand up for Lucifer.
Once you know these things, it makes it easy to quit.

I'm probably looking at my calendar wrong. I could swear it says 2014 and not 1420.

I've heard your story from others at the exmo conferences and here at RfM.

You were too close and involved to see the cultism from the inside. It can be obvious to outsiders and those with perspective but impossible for those who are working to keep it going.

I'm so sorry your family can't see it or have what it takes to know you're still the same person you always have been.

uh..... most all of us? A lot of us anyway. I was like you only left at an older age.

I was out of the church at 51 years of age. It still took me almost 10 years after that to realize what had really been happening to me all those years on the inside. I didn't understand that it truly is a cult that I was part of and now that I understand that, I can only feel sorry for my kids who are all still part of it and living under it's influence. The Mormon church took everything from me, every dream and hope and it destroyed my life, made me insane I think trying to make sense of it all those years, and now at almost 65 I live alone in a foreign country with no contact with my kids or grandkids and no hope that it will ever change for the better. Both as a child and as an adult for over 30 years I paid them money to keep brainwashing me with their controlling ideas and doctrines. To think of the years I sat at the piano playing for priesthood meetings and stake meetings donating my entire life to nothing more than a greedy cult which prays off the gullible. At least now I no longer "Hope to go the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom" and I no longer live in fear of the end of the world and do stupid things like store food and water with every extra penny. I'm not sure what comes after this life on earth, if anything, but I'm sure I don't want to be where the Mormon's end up. I can think of no better definition of hell than to be part of a cult and be blind to reality for all time and eternity.

My mother recently died and my TBM family put on a funeral service for her. They made it like a sacrament meeting.

I had a good relationship with her and we both left the Church. She hoped in vain that her other kids would also leave, but they did not. Instead they labeled her as kind of crazy and me as kind of evil...

So, I skipped the funeral and grieved alone with my kids that I managed to get out of the Church when young. They were the only grandkids that really loved her.

Mormonism... Sorry, Randy.

My mother is 96, bed ridden, can't hear or see much and can't even sit up to eat. I'm sad that I can't attend the funeral when it happens. I'm just as much her child as the TBMs who are running things. But I don't want to be subjected to their derision and preaching. I have nothing in common with them except DNA and the whole thing will be like a F&T meeting to impress and manipulate. Not worth it.

I'd say find a sweet young thing and raise another kid or two. That will keep you young.

At 65 you are hardly over the hill.

I just read about a Southern politicians who remarried and became a new dad now at age 81

I felt very stoopid. So stoopid that I've refused even until today to calculate how much money I've given them in tithing & other contributions over my lifetime.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2014 07:56AM by PapaKen.

except luckily my family didn't reject me, though my TBM daughter doesn't make life easy. Most of my siblings were out. My parents listened as my dad was never too TBM. All my nieces and nephews are not mormon, only my daughter. I based all my life choices on mormonism. What I've found being on this board is that the "very elect" are on this board, the most devout. We believed it and we lived it.

I'm sorry your family is so blind they can't see you for who you are and have chosen to "shun" you. I hope you find some happiness. I've had some really good things happen to me since I left mormonism and I'm 57. There is still hope for good things to happen in your life.

It's not your fault. Most people are susceptible to their techniques -- even if they're familiar with how it works and especially if you they born into it.

There are good people out there, you just have to learn how to trust again so you know when you meet them. You're in control of your life now ^^

Not stupid. Brainwashed.

Your life is not over, so it's not wasted. Time was lost. Opportunities were lost. Relationships were damaged, maybe irreparably. Maybe not (time has a funny way with things like that).

But you are not lost. You're found because you "got out"! At nearly 65 (I am close, nearly 60), with today's lifespans, you have potential yet.

All is not lost, just some.

Some of your posterity will eventually recognize the cult for what it is. This is certain. There is too much information available to not happen. The cult is in crisis because of it.

When those of your children or grandchildren wake up to the scam, they will have your example to validate themselves and give them the courage to break the cycle of generational lying. If you're still around, they will thank you. If it's after you're gone, they will weep for the lost opportunity, but feel gratitude and pride that you weren't willing to perpetuate lies and religious manipulation. You have made a huge sacrifice in order to make a bold statement that will have a lasting positive effect on posterity.

My last grandparent died a week ago today. She didn't believe the mormon myth. But, in addition to enjoying the social network, she didn't have the heart to tell her TBM family. I don't blame her or judge her for that. But it leaves me to pave the way for my family. On behalf of your children and grandchildren, thank you for making their future transition a little bit easier.

Good Clean Fun Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But it leaves me to pave the way for my family. On
> behalf of your children and grandchildren, thank you
> for making their future transition a little bit easier.

I agree with this...everyone who quits makes the future easier for not only those close to them who they love, but also for ALL members of their extended family...

...and for people they may not even know, or know exist, but who learn of their story.

Every person who leaves is making an immensely positive contribution to the future on behalf of all of us.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2014 12:35PM by tevai.

I would say I'm "more stupid" because I chose to join the LD$ church when I was 22. We both eventually figured it out - and stopped the insanity! I'm right there with you with the anger at wasting my life toiling for the Morg's fantasy reward. The past is gone, can't change it. All I can do is focus on finding and changing parts of me so I can move on and feel better. This is my new truth. (on a good day!)

I just don't like any of you calling yourselves stupid. Getting trapped in the cult is complex and the methods the Mormon church uses are very seductive. They teach you to go against your very self but their methods are under the radar. They preyed on the fact that you are human.

They call it milk before meat, but lets face it, the "milk" was often a malted milk with tons of ice-cream and whipped cream on top--so how were you to know? They were never very forthcoming with the meat, or as they now call it--anti material.

I see brilliant, generous, wonderful people posting here all the time, all having been hoodwinked. That is why I bristle at those who claim its not a cult;who claim it's just a belief system and we should respect it.

I am so sorry you feel that way randy and I sure understand why you do. I have seen the pain of the shunning up close and cannot even imagine what it must feel like to not have your own children talking to you. Wish I had wise words, but I for one get it.

Imagine the alternative.....

What kind of father am I said he - compared to God - I am good wait and see. God lets his children suffer and die - He doesn't feed them - I wonder why? His idea of sacrifice is killing his own son then claims to the world that's how the war's won. When he got angry he murders them all. He made the flood - that was his call. When he speaks the records show that people quake. Should we fear our father if we make mistakes? What kind of a father is that I reflect? A father you fear more than love and respect; a man who lets children suffer each day. Is such a man "Godly" I ask I survey?

Why would a father with love in his heart not lift a finger once his children start? Oh he created the world, so you say didn't he? So what - we could suffer - in life's misery? How can I not be thankful for that? Should I also be thankful that I'm not a rat? A Father that loves me it all sounds so grand - Then why are his actions so hard to understand?

Would not it be better for him to be here - holding my hand and calming my fear - rather than an absent landlord who never appears - Off on vacation for years and for years! He left us to struggle and die all alone. You'd think a good father would sometimes call home.

I'm not sure a father like that is a God - and yet some still worship - I think that is odd. If I acted like him would you too sing my praise? Give me your money - worship me on my day? The longer I live the less sense it all makes. They just make it all up - cover up the mistakes. Things we believe in and swear by and more - The longer I live the more I abhor.

Did anyone noticed as technology has increased that the miracles of God all seemed to have ceased? The world is so gross and pungent that we have to find something in which to believe. A mother and father somewhere in the sky; who love us and wants us and will be there when we die. A family forever with nothing but love, is something that sounds so good from above. But dreaming don't make it so - so I have learned and so what is the truth? Love's not free It is earned!

No one should love fathers who abandon their own who don't care enough to provide them a home; a home that won't kill them or eat them alive; a home that would freeze them and cause them to die.

So I as a father think I did ok. I cared for them all - 'Till they walked away. Till they turned their backs wanting to be free of a father so evil they could now clearly see.

Seems funny the effort and time that we spend sacrificing for children who complain in the end. Who think they can judge you - your heart and your life; who think they know more about you and your wife.

I guess like a father above in the skies we want to believe in the mother of lies. That all that is now and all that has been was made by our father - some God in the wind!

For years the best con men on earth have bestowed the story of God for money so bold. Give us your money your sins we forgive - we barter a place so with God you can live!

Thousands and thousands of years we propose just listen to us admire our clothes. You need a story of fear to believe we give you the story of Adam & Eve.

So what kind of father gives Adam and Eve a Garden of Eden just to be deceived? Cast out and abandon and left, on their own, to figure it out and just find their way home. Such is the love of the heavens in verse - make's me think somehow this life is a curse. Not a blessing of learning and knowledge to obtain - just suffering and dying - such a nice Godly game.

A punishment maybe no way it's a gift to be set on the ocean in a raft set a drift? If God is our father - our souls he projects - then what about science; should that we reject? The fact that mankind is becoming like God now able to create in a lab and make a seed or a pod. And why is it so that greediness grows like a virus that gets in your eyes and your nose?

Are you telling me worse then when Noah and Ark than today with its greed and corruption question mark? If God our own father killed us all way back then, surely he's pissed now and will do it again! So why nothing happens; the world doesn't end? We just start new wars again and again.

Civilization is not going away anytime soon. Only some die and some others will stay and greed will prevail. Religion won't die we can't see the truth. There's a mote in our eye and we've lost the youth.

So life will go on for us all don't you see - for life is eternal it just has to be. I'll leave to others to decide for themselves if I was a father put on a shelf; rejected, condemned and dismissed as a fraud; exposed as a man eternally flawed.

Yet will I still speak with what wisdoms in me until my last breath still a father I'll be. I may not be God of heaven and earth but I did ok to the ones I gave birth. So judge me - you will - for in me there's still hope that I'll last until my children will finally internalize what I feel - what it's like to be shunned and called mentally ill.

In a perfect world someone would read that in every sacrament meeting next father's day.

Beautifully expressed sentiments.

That was absolutely amazing...thanks for sharing

Might you send this to your family members? Rock their boat!

I feel grateful that you shared your heartfelt poem with us ....a poem that explained in an amazing way your feelings and pain.

Like you, I have a boatload of children. They are one of the best things that have ever happened in my life. To have a few very TBM ones judge me and reject me, keeping me from having a relationship of some kind with them and their children, hurts beyond words. So, I very much relate to at least part of what you are dealing with.....because most of my children are not of the same frame of mind as these few, I realize this to be a major difference between us.

Most of the time my life is filled with light, wonder. and immense gratitude for the new life I have of being master of my own ship. But I have down times when the Church, which I very much consider to be an evil money-grubbing-indoctrinating cult, makes me so angry at the control they have over people's minds, telling them not to think, that I wish I had the ability to send those I want to send to outer space.....and now.

I believe that you will see some of your posterity know the truth about the Church-Cult, just as I believe this will happen in my family. I am as ancient as the dinosaurs and I so want to be able to see this for myself, but if it doesn't, I know that it will occur when I am gone. And, I do give myself credit for being a worthwhile example of what life can offer when you are free, and I hope you give yourself this same credit. It took study and courage to get you where you are at. You are in no way stupid, just highly indoctrinated by an evil Church-Cult.

As a convert, involved in other religious views, my experience as a 50 year marriage to an RM with several children two RM's and married in the temple (now almost all outside the religion for years), Mormonism has resulted in an analysis that includes it's teachings, and how it functions.
It is my perspective, experience, and analysis that Mormonism functions best as a patriarchate, generational, cultural, religious tribe. I tend toward using anthropology in my analysis.

I go into more detail here.

Why I prefer the word tribe regarding Mormonism (updated) Long
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1375098,1375098#msg-137509

There are three reasons why leaving Mormonism was very likely easier for me than many others:
1. My background before I converted
2. My analysis as how it functioned as a tribe.
3. Strong self confidence, self respect, self esteem and belief I made the best decision I could with the information I had at the time.

These two elements helped me understand that I was not stupid. I did what the majority of humanity has done through out history. Generally, they naturally are emotionally attached to the cultural religious(spiritual) views of their environment, depending on the area they are born. It is well documented that societies of humans developed their own unique religious views (strong emphasis on mythology), great acceptance of visions, the metaphysical, the supernatural as core elements of the world views.

I also had a strong sense of self confidence, self respect and self esteem. None of that was destroyed in any part of my life.

I have lived a long life. One of the most important things I have learned is that I have found I can avoid a lot of suffering by recognizing that regrets, calling myself negative names, etc. are self-sabotage and not necessary. Then I focus on an attitude of gratitude and understand that all of my life has contributed to who I am today. All of it! The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.

I am convinced also that all deities/saviors/ exist where they have always existed as the result of the creative imagination of humans trying to figure out how what life is all about.

I also know there are different types of truth: objective truth, scientific truth (the result of confirmation of a theory), subjective truth, personal truth, spiritual truth,
etc., etc.

I am not stupid, not an idiot, not some kind of victim of nefarious teachings that harmed me in some kind of purposeful religious diabolical, evil plot. I believed in the world view as presented by religions. That is what most of humanity has done for eons. I have no shame or guilt about any of it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2014 05:13PM by SusieQ#1.

I went along with it for decades before recognizing the fact that it's all a fraud. I too have numerous progeny who are TBM. I do feel I should have picked up on it sooner, but you can't change the past. I just feel fortunate to have discovered the fraud at all. It's very artfully presented.