About 3 years ago, my wife had a hysterectomy and mesh bladder sling placement. The mesh made sex painful. She had an expert try to fix it, but didn't work. Apparently there are lawsuits going on about the mesh.


Okay for her, as before all this she wasn't interested in sex anyway, but I didn't really plan on this.

She has given me permission to masturbate, but has made it clear she would divorce if I had sex with someone else. Fortunately in my late 40's my drive isn't what it used to be.

Wonder what the morg would tell me - would have to be completely asexual.

Your wife is going through that kind of misery and what really bothers you is that you're going to have to use a different method to get off?

Wow, why are you so negative?... perhaps the poster is concerned about not being able to be as intimate or close with his wife. Perhaps he is concerned about possible ramifications No sex ever again can have on his marriage.

Sex is bonding, sex is emotional... Sure it doesnt make a marriage a marriage, but its absence is a valid cause of concern.

Now of course the OP mentioned and possibly conveyed disappointment about not being able to have sex with anyone... but he didn't elaborate that point much.

I am sure it is sex with his wife he desires, and everything else, alternative methods, are poor substitutes for reasons given above.

Right, well that still makes it all about him, nevermind whatever pain and anguish SHE's going through. She doesn't count as much, right, because she's just the receptacle.

Do you realize your post sounded like that?

idk. 3 years is kind of an excessive amount of time. She's not still in misery and is unwilling to do other things. I think he's been pretty patient, actually.

Why can't she lovingly participate in his sexuality? There are many couple's method, after all, that don't involve inter vag.

Your Mormon "judging others" skills are showing.

Why so harsh on judgement? You know nothing about this guy or how much empathy he may or may not feel for his wife. This is a single post dealing with a single issue. There is no need to assume that just because the OP keeps it simple that this is the only thing in his marriage he cares about that goes before anything else. That is an unnessecary assumption to make.

That sucks man. It's the worst when things like this happen that aren't anyone's fault. She did nothing to deserve it and neither did you.

I don't blame you for looking at it from a practical perspective, that would suck if my wife had that happen.

Go9m luck, support your wife for sure, but make it work for you as well.

Don't give up--there are other things you can do.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sex-sociability/201409/good-sex-without-intercourse

Asexuals are individuals who do not experience sexual attraction, regardless of whether they are sexually active or not. & you clearly do.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2014 01:39AM by Tristan.

She's given you permission to masturbate?

Seriously?

Permission!?!?

Yes, she has gone through some misery, but that is over. Only hurts with sex. Didn't think I needed to come here for medical advice, since this is a site related to religion.

Just thought I'd bring up that there are situations in which sex doesn't work, and what are the alternatives? If no masturbation, or "unnatural" ways to have sex, what do you do? Doubt that the morg considers such things. And my wife isn't interested in alternative kinds of sex.

Anyway, for you younger folks, enjoy it while you can. Turns out the morg messages against sex aren't a bad idea. Good to learn how to live without it.

They're VOWS, not "intentions" or "hopes...depending on how well things work out."

Mine included "Forsaking all others" and "for richer or poorer, for better or worse" and "until death do us part." I appreciate your challenge. There were matters that came up in my marriage, that my wife and I had not anticipated. Not as drastic, sure, but every couple has some. Marriage provides a binding, structured framework.

I assume medical issues are being researched, and hope that there will be a remedy in the future. What would she do if she was still sexually active, but you were paralyzed because of an accident?

Temple marriages contain no such vows.

So your wife is still TBM? The morg turns sex into something "evil" if it's not done exactly in the way they say. I'm sorry for her problems and yours. Perhaps you two could see a counsellor to work through this.

She is saying intercourse hurts, so it's all over for both of them, forever. I'm a chick, age 48, and that REALLY bothers me.

I think that you both need to go in and see her doctor, or see a counselor, together.

Part of what is happening my be psychological, though I do not doubt for one moment that she is and has been, in intense pain and is still having difficulties with the aftereffects of the mesh issue.

Sex isn't only intercourse, and other forms of mutually satisfying sex, other than intercourse, are not "alternative sex", in my mind. In hers, they obviously are.

And, while it is not your place to tell her how to feel or what she should do, it might help to openly discuss this issue as the primarily medical and secondarily, psychological issue it seems to be, and then deal with it in that way, TOGETHER.

Seek outside help before giving in to this, or bedore droping it off the discussion rotation, altogether.

I agree. If my husband came to me and said at our ages, under 50, that we were done with sex forever, in the back of my mind I'd be thinking, well, it may be for YOU, Mister---but not for ME.

Of course I'd want to help him get the medical aspect taken care of, and make sure he was ok, but I would also be very concerned for the health and future of our very marriage.

Sex is a huge drive for some people and not so much for others. But, the intimacy and closeness and "we're in this world together, fighting on" thinking it brings to couples is a HUGE part of marriage---and life.

Sex is the glue that can bind you together as you deal with a broken world.

So, you'd better try really hard to fix it. And try to get her on your side of that equation, WANTING to fix it with you.

An expectation of total monogamy within a marriage comes with the absolute understanding that one's sexual needs will be met by their spouse and a spouse should do all they can in that regard. Of course there might be periods when that is not possible, and one always needs to be considerate and understanding. However, if being monogamous means absolutely no sexual relations with another person for the rest of your life (another 30 or so years in this case) that is a very, very big ask for anyone. I am sorry that his wife has had medical problems that makes sex painful, and she no longer has an interest in sex, but I definitely have sympathy for him too. There are ways to be sexually intimate without full-on intercourse and I would hope any spouse would do all they could to satisfy their partner even if some things have to go off the sexual menu. If you want to remain with your wife, but she wants absolutely no sexual intimacy, do what ever you need to do to remain sane. Your options might include things that the morg (or your wife) would not approve of. In my view, no spouse has the right to ban their spouse from an intimate sexual life for decades. If sex is no longer important to her, what does it matter if your sexual (not emotional) needs are met elsewhere? And if it does matter to her, then I would hope you could both work to find ways to be sexually intimate even without intercourse. It is not fair to say, "I am no longer interested in sex therefore you can't have sex again until you die."

monogamish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you want to remain with
> your wife, but she wants absolutely no sexual
> intimacy, do what ever you need to do to remain
> sane. Your options might include things that the
> morg (or your wife) would not approve of. In my
> view, no spouse has the right to ban their spouse
> from an intimate sexual life for decades. If sex
> is no longer important to her, what does it matter
> if your sexual (not emotional) needs are met
> elsewhere? And if it does matter to her, then I
> would hope you could both work to find ways to be
> sexually intimate even without intercourse. It is
> not fair to say, "I am no longer interested in sex
> therefore you can't have sex again until you die."

I agree. Sex is as much a necessity of life (for me, anyway) as breathing or water or food...without it, I (personally) die.

If sex is off the table with your spouse, then (in my opinion, and after full discussion with your spouse) the person being denied sex has a human right to make alternative arrangements. This may be a revolutionary new thought in LDS culture, but in the non-LDS world, it has been the reality of life for all of the millennia of human existence.

My mom had that surgery years ago. she did have problems in that area for a while, but it did get better and they went back to having a sex life (why do I know this. shoot me now).

I agree with the people who mention about no more sex for the rest of your life -- it's a pretty harsh sentence. I was in such a relationship - NEVER consummated. First it was my knee hurt, then my back hurt. A week became a month, became a year, became MANY years. Stupid me stuck around for this "temporary" problem. No intimacy at all killed it. He refused to get any help and I got to the point where I just didn't love him anymore.

Don't let this happen to you. For me, I feel like I wasted a huge part of my life with this person. If she's not interested in other forms of intimacy and this "temporary" problem isn't going to get better, it might be time to consider being with someone else. But I'd be honest with her and let her know that it isn't exactly just about sex (well maybe it is, but for me it wasn't).

You're saying that she really wasn't into it all that much before her surgery ... it's possible that she just wasn't that interested in it being with you. Sorry, I'm not saying that is the case, but it's something to consider.

If she loves you and wants you guys to have a marriage, she will be willing to do something about it.

"permission to mastubate"

Dude, that is so messed up, your wife needs therapy

I'm a longtime lurker, and this topic is the one that is bringing me out of the shadows and into the screen light.

When I was 37, my husband was diagnosed with colorectal cancer and had a colectomy two days later. The surgery left him with an inability to achieve an erection. We had been having marital problems prior to this due to his flagging sex drive, which in retrospect may have been due to his illness, and in some ways it was a relief not to fight about sex any more.

I was very determined to be loving and supportive, and to me that meant not putting any sexual pressure on him at all, as I was pretty sure that not being able to rise to the occasion must be somewhat devastating to the healthy male ego of a still young man. I "turned it off" ala Book of Mormon, which worked about as well as you'd expect. He did the same, and never made any attempt to satisfy me in other ways, as sex became too painful of a topic to address.

I loved him. I was completely faithful. I was sure I was doing the best thing for us both. And I was angry that my sex life was essentially over. I felt guilty about my anger. I felt depressed and hopeless at the specter of living out the rest of my life without sexuality. Fidelity is a big part of my makeup, and I resented that I would have to violate my morality to ever feel sexual again. I felt selfish and guilty for even thinking that.

After a year of remission, we were told that my husband's cancer had metastasized and it was terminal. He passed away a year later. I'm going to be brutally honest here so judge if you must, but amid all of the grief and agony I endured during his passing, I had a little bit of relief knowing I was no longer guaranteed a totally sexless existence. Does that make me selfish? I think it makes me human.

My point is, it's easy to look at a situation and judge, but it's harder to see all of the complex emotion swirling beneath the surface. OP is still a young man and it's a tough position to be in. This does not negate in any way the fact that his wife is also in a tough position, and my best guess is that she, too, experiences pain regarding her own sexuality and not being available in that way to her husband.

(stepping down from soapbox)

Nice, that was a brave and sensitive post. I have a similar story, yet won't share it here as you have. I will only completely second what you have shared.

I agree. Vulnerable and brave to admit her humanity.

I nominate this one as the best post of the thread!

(And it speaks a bit to a point I often make. That is that women and men can both be sexual, can both be visually stimulated, can both be emotionally wired, can both like to masturbate, can both enjoy porn. The sexuality-spectrum is a human thing, not a man thing.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2014 07:24PM by schlock.

If you're in your 40's and your drive isn't what it used to be, seriously, you should see a doctor. Your testosterone levels may be low (or could be other issues). This is a symptom of a health problem you shouldn't ignore.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2014 12:31PM by eternal1.

They would say please, stop thinking about these lower things- my boy, love your wife- but live us more- let's get back up into the heart and the mind and the third eye; of course it would also be suggested you tie your hands to the bed posts at night, never be alone, don't touch it except to pee, [KEEP YOUR HANDS UP - (so they can always see them, because they don't trust you to use your hands as you please - as God, nature intended) - have one hand on the trumpet while the other is saluting LDS-"power"]; they would blame everything on your wife; to her, they would blame it all on you; there would be courts, taxes, rumors, insecurities, dangers, ripping apart and plowing asunder anything otherwise sacred between families... at least until SOMEONE (or too many people) WENT TO THE BISHOP.

No law adequately protects - neither does the LDS church, and unfortunately, because of their trust (in all things Mormon), neither always do the parents or other members [stand up for one another-haha] - children (or adults) against church-cult behaviors such as intrusive and/ or illegal "interviews", spying, prying, lying, taxations, and plundering, and bullying, and "callings", and favoritism, and bribery, and sexism, and segregation, and shunning, and slavery, and other kinds of pervism, mental-touching, guilt-inducing punishments, manipulations, ostracism, banishment, retrubution, exclusions, forfeitures, false friends..

When you "go to the bishop"/ when you (are forced to) "spill the beans" (on something or someone)/ when you are "interviewed"/ when you "confess" (a [perceived] "sin", mistake, ill thought or slip up)/ when someone in the church talks to you in such a way that makes you feel nervous, uncomfortable, or uneasy, stand up taller and put the spirit on them. When you open your mouth - behind those closed doors - it could very well be a recipe for disaster, do more harm to you than good, and haunt you for the rest of your life [(at least) in Mormonism], and could very well cause mental, spiritual and social harm. Some good does come out of these interviews though. Some are able to see the light, an opening in the testimony of the truth and some are able to turn around and walk out, if not then, soon or someday.

You would imagine if you use one hand, that it wouldn't tell the other one what it's doing.

M@t

My husband has developed impotence due to his age and health. I am quite a bit younger than he is. He bought me some very nice vibrators. I thank him for it.

But, if he doesn't take better care of his health, I may become a youngish widow and I have no intention of staying single.

A hard man is good to find and I intend to find one.

anono Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A hard man is good to find and I intend to find
> one.

Pun intended? ;-)

One of the morg indoctrination subjects it took me quite a while to get over was the idea that "sex" is intercourse. Only. And nothing else.

Now, in the 21st year of a terrific, non-mormon marriage, I've learned that sex and intimacy are constant, and not "stick it in and then we're done." It's cuddling on the couch. It's taking a shower together and washing each other's backs (and other stuff). It's sneaking a hand in her shirt to caress her breasts when the kids are in their rooms. And on and on and on. I found it was a very mormon idea that you sort of have intercourse through your garments for "sex," and ignore each other physically the rest of the time. And that it's also a very stupid idea that's very harmful to an intimate, loving marriage.

See if you can interest your wife in a more intimate, close experience than *just* intercourse. She might be missing intimacy as much as you, but doesn't know how to deal with it. Take the lead. I hope it works out for you.

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> One of the morg indoctrination subjects it took me
> quite a while to get over was the idea that "sex"
> is intercourse. Only. And nothing else.

Seriously? So it's completely okay for bf and I to do EVERYTHING but? <.<

*evil grin*

I could live with that for a while, actually

anymoo Wrote:

> Seriously? So it's completely okay for bf and I to
> do EVERYTHING but? <.<
>
> *evil grin*
>
> I could live with that for a while, actually

It's "OK" for you and bf to decide what you do and don't want to do for your own reasons.
Assuming you're both consenting adults, of course :)
Enjoy. :)

lol I know.

But he's TBM so that kind of puts a damper on things. I'd like to use my new found knowledge though ...

There are constant lawyer ads on TV here about lawsuits against companies that provided the transvaginal mesh. Maybe you and your wife could at least get some money out of this. Also seeing a therapist and doctor sound like good ideas for both of you.

The Morg needs to get its nose out of the bedrooms of consenting adults. There is a lot more to sex than just intercourse. You are not the first couple to face such a challenge. There are a number of ways that you could satisfy each other short of penetration. The fact that your wife felt it necessary to give you "permission" to masturbate shows just how messed up the Mormon church is when it comes to sex.

My best to you both.

That is so sad on many levels.
She is in pain and you hurt for her. You don't want her in pain and discomfort.

It is okay to feel sad and mournful at the prospect of never having sex with an intimate partner again in your life!!!

I was 47 when I lost my spouse. The people in my family live until at least 89.
I'd spent 22 years with a first spouse who was basically asexual and we were intimate about 12 times a year at best. I lost my youth believing what was adequate was the real deal.
We divorced for other reasons and my second spouse was the love of my life! Due to his job keeping him away from home a lot, I could count on two hands and a foot how many times we were able to get together in four years. I have about five precious memories of wonderful intimacy with him.

So when he committed a crime and we divorced I was alone at 47.


Looking forward to the next 52 years was not fun!
I was very TBM at the time. I mourned and grieved. I raised my children. I wept all through menopause.
I'm not that outgoing and due to other issues, having an intimate partner in my life right now would be a problem.

Also as I am now 59, my body is no longer as supple and strong as it once was. I can't stand that I've gained some fat around the middle. I'm still quite slim for middle age, but I feel repulsed by my image in the mirror. I'm not sure I could trust any old man who wanted to be up close with this body! Must be after my money or something.


Niceforaninactive puts it so well:

"I felt depressed and hopeless at the specter of living out the rest of my life without sexuality. Fidelity is a big part of my makeup, and I resented that I would have to violate my morality to ever feel sexual again. I felt selfish and guilty for even thinking that."


At least as my baby factory shut down my hormones did too. I'm not a 'snow on the roof and fire in the furnace'. I don't even have a lit pilot light.

But I was healthy and in my forties when my sexual world was kicked out from under me!
I'm Piss*d with God and the universe!
I'm entitled to a good sex life and I was a good virginal girl and what did all that virtue and abstinence get me? Buckus!

I can never look a teenager in the eye again and tell them “Wait until you get married deary.” No, they might get a pig in a poke like I did, be faithful, have adequate but nice sex, then have their world taken away. I never even got to find out how often I'd like to have it, and now my body can't take the activity. Probably just throw out my sacroiliac joint!

You mean sex isn't 'do it and wait 9 months to see if you have a kid'?

I thought that is what mormon sex was.

I won't ever be through with sex unless I lose my hands...

Early in our marriage, most of the time when DH initiated sex it was when I was "unavailable": on my period, extremely sick, exhausted, post surgery. If I initiated, he turned me away. If I was available, after having not been, I let him know, but he never acted on it, until I was unavailable again. When my mom died, within hours he initiated sex, and I finally complied. When we were finished he asked, "Do you feel better now?" (I didn't.) That was all in our younger years.

I am 56; he is 60. We have had sex three times in six years. Each time, it was I who initiated. Each time, he never climaxed.

I do not anticipate ever having sex again. And I no longer care.

The thought of sex would be more palatable to me--maybe--if we had a relationship in any other way, but we don't. We don't talk, we don't laugh together, we don't share goals or dreams or hopes for the future. We don't touch, we don't hug. We don't share a bed, or a bedroom.

I have tried multiple times to get him to counseling. He refuses to go. So I go.

In three years our kids will be gone. I will move to the basement. I will not likely divorce him, because it would be a financial disaster for both of us. I have always been the major breadwinner. I don't make much, but I make enough--about $50K a year. He makes only a third of my salary.

I am in a sexless, loveless, lifeless marriage. He leaves town every week to teach Sunday School. His marriage commitment was to the church, not to me.