Many times I get into the act of delineating an absurdity in LDS doctrine or practice I find you have already done the heavy lifting.

So this is my question: I think there are many absurdities and immoral aspects to the LDS version of the Fall and the Atonement and the whole Sin/Redemption paradigm.

Have you already explored this topic? If so, can you send me a link?

Thanks!

If anyone else has delved into this most sensitive area to TBMs, I would welcome a link or list from you also.

There was a post on this a little while ago, but I don't remember what it was called and whether it was from RPackham.

I don't recall having written anything specifically about the absurdities of the fall and redemption. Previous posters on this thread have pointed out some of them.

The fundamentalist Christian views on that topic are IMHO just as absurd.

It's the kind of topic where you get a little here and a little there, but I haven't read any long article about where all the absurdities of it is collected in one place. There are a bunch of issues to bring up about it. I posted many things myself once upon a time when I really cared about it. Don't think any of it still around though.

Just bring some certain point or question about it in a post and you'll likely recieve some more input from your fellow exmos. My main beef is that god created hell in the first place and instead of scrapping this which is the opposite of both goodness and justice in the first place, benevolence and justice are furtermore butchered in a "plan for salvation". You know because omnipotence means that you cannot forgive even the slightest imperfection unless you've tortured atleast someone.

You can live a perfect life. Wash down your last bite of food with coffee.....and off to the lower kingdom you go, never to see your family again. Well, that is unless they decide to lower themselves to come and visit you. Nobody could ever tell me why my entire family shouldn't strive to be in the lower kingdom to be together. Makes perfect sense to me. Hopefully all the TBM's make it to the CK, never to be seen again.

Ok thank you for letting me know. It seems like a fruitful line of discourse since it is the last fallback position for TBMs who realize they are into an absurdity but still act like they care about all the zaniness because it is how they "access the atonement."

I think the logical and moral flaws of the paradigm are deep. And fatal.

Was the Atonement of any value?

According to D&C 82:
7 And now, verily I say unto you, I, the Lord, will not lay any sin to your charge; go your ways and sin no more; but unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return, saith the Lord your God.

You may recall the teachings of Spencer in his Miracle of Forgiveness which says the same thing. Decide not to pay tithing anymore? You have just nullified your repentance and symbolically helped drive a nail into your savior.

As mormons we've heard these same teachings forever. The bottom line is this- your only hope for salvation is to do everything the Priesthood leaders tell you to do, and to do it as well as you can.

The easiest way to show the absurdity of the necessity for a fall and subsequent redemption is to ask the question:

How did the first god become a god, if there was no god yet to devise such a plan and no savior yet to save him/her from it?

More absurdity:

People who don't know right from wrong being punished for their decisions.

Satan acting surprised for doing what had been done "on other worlds."

Satan the spirit dressed up in an apron.

Jesus getting to double atone in the garden and on the cross--"double jepoardy" if you will.

Jesus gaining infinitely in prestige and power and yet we call it a "sacrifice" when the words "high-yield investment" would be applicable.

And, silliest of all, the objectification of "sin" and "guilt".

More to come.