Have to get this out, because I have been screaming in my head about it all day, and need some peace.

Daughter goes to college ward.
Daughter had a rough month, and went in to ask if he could help with a dental payment (under $200.00).
Bishop tells daughter that the stake president just told him that there college ward asks for more money than any other ward, and they just plain have the money (HELL....malls, etc.). Grrr.
Soooooo.......shames her by saying these things which royally pissed me off. O.k. So you can't afford 200.00. No problem, HOWEVER
1. Why are you asking?? Why doesn't your mom work and is paying this? A. I had been ill and had surgeries, and have aggressively been looking for the past month. Trust me, I'd rather work than deal with this.
B. The bill was HERS. She is 19 and a half. I pay my bills, and he is asking why I don't pay this. She just wanted some stress relief and a food order.

He says he will help her with food, but don't get any for your mom. She will have to do that with her own bishop. WTH? It is coming from the same place either way. I don't really care, as I am fine with my canned food and such, but how demeaning and rude. I thought we took care of others??????

THE BIG PROBLEM:
He then proceeds to ask if she is living the law of chastity. WHAT? She was asking about her finances and for a blessing.

She is one of those kids that is shy and has not done anything, and this talk embarrasses her.

He told her that if she was doing everything right, we would not have financial problems. He asked if she was reading scriptures, doing all she could, and said hmmm, there must be something.

What in the hell. I was sick and lost my job. I have been a great single mother and it all fell apart this year. I am mad that we have to feel guilty after all these years of paying tithing.

This broke the shelf for both her and I. It has been faltering, but she came home in tears and anger (this is very unlike her). He then proceeds to tell her that she should have the music information ready for next week (she calls to ask for musical numbers).

Tell daughter to tell him how she feels, as she has his text.

She texted him that she no longer wants the calling, and was offended that he would call her out with her chastity.

Honest to hell, he left a voice message, and said, "I obviously said something to offend you. I never would want to do that. I don't want to do this over text. I love you". what the all freaking mighty hell. I have heard you guys tell stories like this and I wouldn't know if I believed it because it seemed so out there and rude.

I have now experienced it, and am so appalled. If the goal is to get the pesky single mothers out, then they are doing great. How in the hell can he not know how he offended her. I won't help you with a bill, or help your mom. I will demean her for not having a job right this minute, and then I will say you must be having sex or whatnot.

I was so heartbroken. She cried for an hour and has been angry all day. She is not an angry girl, so what can I do that would best calm her soul. I have been angry a lot, so I told her it is o.k. to feel these feelings, but don't let them ruin your life. We will get by without the help. I have two more job interviews tomorrow, so cross your fingers.

Anyways, after NOT answering her phone, and not returning his call, he came to our door with his wife (we peeked out the curtains) and stood there for five minutes and then went to our next door neighbor. How RUDE and intrusive. I will not help you with a SMALL amount of money (compared to what the church has and spends), yet now I will bug you since you don't want me to bug you.

HELP!!!! I am so angry and never felt more humiliated. I can't believe my sweet girl had to go through that embarrassment and humiliation of her soul.

They DON'T have the money, I meant. Sorry.

Sorry. In my anger, I realized this was written poorly. I hope you can get the gist of it all. :) Thanks for any input and peaceful thoughts.

It's OK! We understand that you needed to vent. We all have to sometimes on here! The whole situation is a mess! Not that it's your fault.

Why can't you belive it? It seems pretty routine that anyone asking for LDS assistance has to establish they are worthy of that assistance.

If you are unhappy about it, then perhaps you need to realize the LDS isn't the place for you and maybe even encourage your daughter to reach the same conclusion.

Being unhappy about it I understand. I don't understand being surprised by it.

I grew up in the Mormon church and had no idea this kind of treatment was common place until I started reading stories about it on RfM. It isn't like the morg publicizes their propensity to abuse people who have done nothing wrong but just need help. Other churches give help regularly without kicking everyone who is down.

I can well understand your anger. I am angry right along with you both. I can't stand when people are mistreated in this manner. He is saying that your daughter deserved her financial problems for some imagined transgression. He is a despicable man.

Please tell your dear daughter to give her dentist's office a call and see if they can work with her on the payments. Also tell her to hit up every food pantry in her vicinity. Tell her to google food banks in her county and she should come up with a good list. A food pantry will be happy to give her several bags of food, no questions asked. All she has to do is show up with a few empty bags or boxes. I know this because my school sponsors a periodic food pantry for our community. I also know of others. They all operate in pretty much the same manner. If you show up, you get food. No one cares about your religious affiliation, your tithing status, or your worthiness.

Good luck to you both. I wish you the best. Please give that sorry excuse for a bishop a wide berth. He does not deserve your fine company. Do come back and let us know how you are both doing.

The bishop is way out of bounds when he asks about her virtue. TSCC will only be charitable if you are active and temple worthy. There is no humanity involved in this. This is NOT the true church and the leaders do not follow the teachings of Jesus. The phrase 'Charity Never Faileth' is a load of crap in TSCC.

If your daughter isn't attending a Mo college, I'd suggest she spend a month of Sundays skipping church. A break might give her better perspective of how poorly the church treats all of its female members. I'm sad to say that this won't be the only time in her life that this patriarchy will harass her.

if only to observe how they treat those in financial or spiritual need (not to ask for herself)

It is so creepy that the Bishop berates and demeans your dear daughter and then says I love you.

That is the part that MAJORLY creeped me out. We listened to the voice mail together, and I almost barfed when he said, 'I love you and would never want to hurt you'. It was like, 'what did I do? I don't want it to be like this'. Creepy.....like a relationship.

I was more appalled they showed up. I know they knew we were home, because I was crying (I had reached my breaking point), and I know you can hear it through our thin windows. I really hope they didn't ask our neighbors all about us, as they know nothing about it, as they are non members and we don't really talk.

I hate that my daughter is hurting. She matters most to me. I questioned if my questioning was wrong (as it has made her question), but she was firm when she came home that this is no longer for her.

Hastening the work....yeah, hastening the creep, and pushing young people away.....one step at a time. :P

I must say, one part that also hugely bothers me, is that he basically demeaned me for not having a job. I could show anyone here my sent box to show how much I have been trying. I don't know what is going on. I have good interviews, I have a good resume, I have a bachelor's degree.

It is hard enough to not have work due to surgeries, but then not to be able to get one this minute (and trying my hardest) then having a guy who knows NOTHING about me calling me out as less than. I have raised my child without child support, and I have done it on my own. How dare he try to tell her there is something wrong with me. I am embarrassed and don't want my daughter to look down on me. Is that so wrong? She says she doesn't and she has a heart of gold, but inwardly how can you not be embarrassed your mom is jobless.

OH. I just remembered he said, "I think the roles are reversed and your mom should be taking care of you". WTH. It was HER bill and I buy my food and pay the rent and phone and such. He acted like she takes care of me. I thought families helped each other. She is an ADULT by their standards (going on missions, etc.), yet when she wants to help her mom and add a few things to a food order, she is taking care of me?

I literally could not walk (it was leg surgery), and that is why I was unable to work. I moved closer to where I grew up, and I don't know if everyone needs a job here, but I was already freaking out that I haven't been able to pin one down.

I want to send a letter to that bishop with all my sent mail. Ridiculous pig.

What your daughters bishop did was totally inappropriate and unethical.

Inappropriate, because a man shouldn't be asking a young woman about her personal life, let alone her sex life.

Unethical, because TSCC has enough money to finance it's own space program. If college student need help, financially, it's probably due to their TBM parents choosing to pay tithing rather than assisting their children.

If I were in your position, I would make an appointment with the bishop's stake president and file a complaint. I would demand that the bishop explain why a married man is asking a single woman about her chastity. In short, the bishop is a closeted PERVERT who is getting some sort of stimulation by hurting kids.

Please know, that your friends on this board support you and your daughter!

I am surprised by it, simply because it has never happened to me, and i am new to figuring out this 'the church isn't true'. I was born and raised in this and in the 'olden days' it is not like that. I just recently stopped going, but this bishop knows nothing about me.

she has been active, has a kidlet recommend for baptisms, a calling, and has taken institute, so it is not the 'she is not active, so nothing for her'.

The church is just cutting off funds and it is despicable. If even she can't get help, what about the truly, truly hungry and hurting ones.

We will be fine. Just a little dent in the road, but the whole mistreatment of her virtue is what i am truly pissed about.

I don't really care about the food and money, but to question her virtue and say it correlated with her finances was a HORRIBLE thing to do, and I am not sure how to deal with it calmly. How have news outlets and people not been called out on this behavior. Sick,

Oh, and someone said to call the stake president. He is claiming the stake president is the one that said, 'no more funds for this college ward, as it is ward that gives out the most'. Wow. Maybe instead of taking it away from these kids, find out WHY. Ya know, like they may actually neeed it. The new stake president is someone I know (he was a teacher of mine in high school), and it makes it all the more frustrating and embarrassing, as I thought more highly of him when I knew him. Guess they are all turning into selfish dirtbags...who knows, it probably comes from the higher ups, but still....how do you feel good turning people away for such a small amount when you are literally looking at a hugely expensive temple (right outside the stake center).

The virtue thing seems so perverted. If she was going in for repentance or to tell him..fine. But it came out of nowhere. Why do all bishops think these kids are having orgy''s all the time. She has been asked about it on and off (yes, I only now have seen how inappropriate it is), throughout her teen years. I swear, they talk about it so much, that it makes kids THINK about it and do it. Freak.

At 19 1/2 I am surprised that he didn't give her a lecture about getting married and letty hubby pay for tooth.

I truly wish that your story was unusual, but sadly, it is not. We hear it over and over again on this board. Members are blamed for their misfortunes. Their worthiness (and sometimes virtue) is called into question. The attitude is that surely you must have done something wrong to deserve your misfortune. It is a horrible, uncharitable, and unchristian attitude. And it is all too common in the Mormon church.

If I were in your shoes I would call that bishop out. I would give him a piece of my mind. What a horrible thing for him to say to a young woman who was merely asking for a little help. If he didn't have the funds to help her, fine. Did he have to be so nasty and small-minded about it?

This bishop is so lacking in kindness, compassion, and simple common sense that it is appalling. He doesn't deserve the title of bishop, nor is he owed any respect. He is an ignorant, destructive twit of a man. He should be thoroughly ashamed of himself.

I'm so sorry this creep insulted your daughter and you. Both of you deserve much better.

Everything you said was expressed the situation to perfection.

I'd like to yell at that guy or hose him for you.

SOB should have been kicked squarely in the nuts. What a complete and total asshole!!

Ron Burr

CoJCoLDS = P.O.S., at least in everyday application.

'On the books' it ain't so bad, but; Who Cares about their Claims?

This might be a good time to start reading together.....
CESletter.com

OP, I'm so sorry this happened to your daughter and to you. Please go with the feelings that are telling you that this is not how Jesus' church would behave. This man is in no way any representative of a god or the Jesus in the Bible. This guy's goal is not to help you or any member or non-member. His goal to gain control.

Unfortunately, many people become more vulnerable to the control of those who abuse and demean them. When one is consistently told they are not worthy, no one will believe them, or other things that imply they are at fault for things that can happen to anyone, they start to depend on the person telling them this to rescue them from this awful state. That is how they get control.

This man was trying to get the power to make your daughter obey him by making her question her own judgement and worth when she was down on her luck. He wasn't necessarily aware of his tactics. It is just the way he has been taught to "lead" and how those in "authority" should act through years in the Mormon church. Luckily, your daughter has too much sense to have fallen for it and that is awesome! Realizing that this is just not on the up and up is a great step in realizing the Mormon church is not good for you. So write him and the church off for the users and a abusers they are and celebrate that you do not have to be their victims!

"He told her that if she was doing everything right, we would not have financial problems."

This is what is entirely wrong with the Mormon Cult. They teach that if you do everything right and tithe, you will be blessed. A corollary of that is if things are going bad, it HAS to be because you are doing something wrong.

To a bishop who has probably always had a silver spoon shoved up where the sun doesn't shine, they can't conceive that bad things happen to good people, therefore your daughter must be sinning.

If things are really tight, have your daughter ask for some money/help from a pastor at a regular church. Many have a pastor's fund that the pastor can use at their discretion to help people in situations like this. They don't ask/care if you are member, don't question if you are "worthy" and regularly use the funds to help people with groceries, rent/mortgage, a tank of gas, or whatever it is that the person needs. I know sometimes those recipients (sometimes years later) when things are better give to the pastor's fund in a sort of "pay it forward" for the help they received.

Hasn't he ever heard of the concept of poor students? Of course they are poor! They can work limited hours and spend their time and money on their education.

Giving charity to students would be an investment for the church. In 10 years, they will be earning a lot more money and be large net contributors. $200 is a pittance for the church, but a $70k family income represents $7k in annual donations for the church. If your daughter leaves the church, they will lose about $100k in lifetime donations and her parsimonious bishop is saving them $200.

This happened to a friend of mine. She was the ultimately perfect Mormon. She took on every calling they ever gave her. She went on a mission. From the time she was a teenager, she never once missed paying her tithing. She was fanatical about paying as much as she could.

Yet the one time she asked for a bit of financial help, both the Bishop and the Stake President said, "No." On top of that, they demanded that she move to a smaller place.

She and her husband and their three teenaged boys were renting a very small condo and they wanted her to get a smaller place. Her husband was a limo driver and someone had smashed into the limo, causing him to lose precious work time.

They also hinted that they must have been doing something wrong to cause their current troubles.

She was so shocked because she'd always believed that if she ever needed help, that they'd be there for her. She'd never asked for help before, after years of being in the Church and these were people she'd known since she was a kid.

They all left the Church. Some people actually do leave because they're offended, but in all of the cases I know about, it was with good reason. It was the Church which was offensive and their eyes were opened, finally allowing them to see the truth.

It's a Corporation and the members are the little shareholders.

If your daughter gets to see the Church for what it really is and leaves at this young age, before she goes and marries in the temple and gets stuck in the Church for life, then she's a lucky young woman.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2014 07:25PM by Greyfort.

You and daughter need to look into Catholic Charities for the time being, till you get back on your feet with the job situation. Screw the Mormons, they don't deserve to help you two.

I feel bad your daughter experienced such a thing. Asking is hard enough and then to be rebuffed in such a smug, superior, arrogant, and hurtful manner is awful.

That bishop felt he could be as mean as possible in private, but when it got out, he tried to cover his ass with that famous non-apology: IF I have said ANYTHING to offend anyone, I am so sorry.

I am very glad, however, if this leads the two of you out of the morg for good.

the Magic of this is:

church HQ is a headless/heartless MONSTER, which feels No Obligation, No Responsibility-Accountability to the rank-and-file.

When a local leader makes a mistake (IF they admit it) they can disown it quicker than a sneeze!

With the information highway, there is No Way for those who feed the monster not to know what's going on.

I was having PTSD triggers over the Kate Kelly stuff. I had to go back to talk to my therapist again.

I went to the church for help after my gay husband left me (after they talked me into marrying him and told me he'd never leave me, gave me a blessing and everything). The bishop told me that abusing the lord's money was next to murder. I also came home and cried and cried. I was working two jobs at the time.

I went through all the chastity stuff when I was younger, but also when my ex and I were trying to work out getting married. I had done nothing, but I was grilled worse than my ex was to get a TR. And my ex had plenty of history.

There is a really ugly underbelly in Mormonism and you don't see it until you find yourself needing them or asking for help. My experiences with leaders definitely drove me out of the church. Not only did they use and abuse me, but they had NO ANSWERS and they knew they had no answers, but pretended they did. I even got a horrible reply to a letter I wrote to Boyd. He really raked me over the coals. I had to burn the letter it upset me so much.

Stupid me, it still took me a while to lose my testimony even after all the abuse that was dished out. Goes to show how indoctrinated I was. The lds church is an evil organization. This bishop just showed you that evil side.

Do yourselves a favor...leave TSCC ASAP!!!

I hate to say this again, I know I've said it before, can't count how many times anymore since the day I started lurking here. But, I really really hate to see people going through what both of you are going through right now....Please leave the CULT ASAP!!!

I will pray for you and your daughter, hope that you don't have to deal with this pain for a long time. If you were in my neighborhood, I would be there helping you without any questions!

Please keep posting here, and tell your daughter to do the same!

I AGREE!

this is ministerial misconduct, Plain & Simple.

see an attorney.