Earlier this week, I sent a letter to my entire immediate family via email, essentially detailing all the reasons why the church has broken my heart and destroyed my life. I didn't just sit an bash the church, but rather, calmly explained how I was feeling and in particular how this BKP thing is affecting me.

I received a response from my TBM little brother yesterday that was very supportive and kind, telling me he completely understood why I was feeling the way I am, and that he supports me and loves me no matter what.

Last night, I received a response from my dad and his heinous wife. It was tantamount to a form letter you would expect to get from someone who just approved you for a credit card. Word-for-word, this was the response:

"Dear Michael,

We love you as we always have. We love you as much as any of our other children. We also love (DH). Even though we don't always agree on religious beliefs, we look forward to continuing our relationship with you throughout our lives.

Our testimonies are unwavering and we choose to follow the prophet. The LDS church has been our strength in our hard times.

We look forward to sharing all future events as a family. We hope that this makes you as happy as it will us.

We have made allowances for you, please do the same for us."

Now, I'll be the first to admit, it wasn't caustic or mean in any way, but (and maybe I'm just being oversensitive here) to me, it felt like nothing I said was acknowledged.

So, I made a decision. I called my dad. And boy did that conversation go south very very quickly.

I asked him why he sent me a form letter in response to a very long letter essentially pouring my heart out. He said "I just didn't want to turn it into a big confrontation with you."

Yeah? The entire reason I wrote my family the letter was to open up a dialogue because it's been the elephant in the room for a very long time, and we all avoid talking about it like it's some kind of dirty secret. I explained quite explicitly in the letter that I wanted open and honest conversation with them about all this.

And then my dad launched in. He said the church is the most important thing in his life and that he sustains everything the leadership of the church says, even what Packer spouted. So I asked him point blank if he thinks of me the same way Packer does. His response was "I would never call you those things." I said "Yeah, but do you THINK them, dad?" He hesitated and stumbled over words and said "I would NEVER call you those names, but I guess, yes- I support what he said."

Like a knife in the gut. I was always proud of the fact that even though my dad may not understand being gay, he supported me. Well the truth finally came out. I broke down and started crying and he continued going, telling me essentially that I should be grateful that he's supported and accepted me as much as he has, and that it's been a huge burden on him for so long.

It went on, and on and on like that for I don't even know how long. A lot of other things got put out on the table that have little or nothing to do with the church, but he also told me that I need to move past what the people in our ward did to my family back when my mom was alive, and (and when he said this, I almost reached through the phone and strangled him) that MY MOM WOULD WANT ME TO FORGIVE AND MOVE ON.

So, that was the meat of the conversation. In a nutshell, he made it very clear that if I asked him to choose between me and the church, he would unquestioningly choose the church.

I'm broken.

The thing that makes us miserable is the difference between expectation, and reality.

You got a dose of reality that was different than your expectation.

Now that you know how your dad really feels, you have to get a new set of expectations that match the new reality. Getting used to the new expectation will suck, but can be done in a workable way.

Of course the level of intimacy/connection with pops will be less, but still may be enough to be worth having.

And that's the response I theoretically *should* be having, if I was less emotional about the whole thing.

I know things will blow over, and I'll still have a relationship with my dad, but you're right, it'll be much more difficult to be as close as we have been in the past.

DNA says:

"Now that you know how your dad really feels, you have to get a new set of expectations that match the new reality. Getting used to the new expectation will suck, but can be done in a workable way."

For myself, the only expectation that matches all the realities I have known, and all those I can imagine, is--no expectations whatsoever.

All expectations are doomed to be disappointed eventually. Everything on this earth is in constant flux, and all things will pass away. You can work to "match your expectations to the new reality map", but soon enough the map will change again anyway. So why invest in expectations?

As Siddhartha the Buddha said, "Desire is suffering."

@GayLayAle,

some of us just get shit-tier parents (and we had no part in choosing them...although, I must admit that sometimes when I have similar conversations with my folks, I wonder about why [on the outside chance the 'premortal existence' idea is valid] I might have done that to myself...i digress.)

I know it sounds cold, but the cold truth is the only thing I think really helps here, and that's that you need distance from the whole situation.

do you ever think about narratives? the stories that we are all writing every day that make up our lives? a lot of times, thinking about another person's narrative makes reconciling these sorts of disputes a lot easier. in your dad's world view, you are, without a doubt, already lost in the 'great mists' on your way to 'outer darkness.' because of the 'sins of the children fall on the parents' pressure, he's probably also confronting the fear of the realization of 'failure' and coming to terms with 'having a millstone hung around his neck.'

the only thing you can do here is teach your father that his beliefs are faulty by setting a great example; living a fantastic life. teach him by non-confrontationally showing him the error of his belief system.

I promise you, at some point, at some level, he'll understand and you'll both be better for it.

I'm sorry you had to hear that. You would think that parents would choose their own kids over a cult. You would think that they would choose the truth over the lies of a cult. It's disturbing to find out where the priorities lie. I can't understand the religious mind, and I never will.

I mean, really. Can't Mormon parents just choose their own flesh and blood over a known falsehood? Can't they do the slightest little bit of research instead of blindly following?

Hearing that sort of thing really makes me angry. Best wishes to you, GayLayAle.

I'm very sorry you are going through this right now. How a parent can do and say and choose certain very hurtful things is beyond my comprehension. Just as you would expect a parent to listen and BELIEVE a child and seriously consider what said child is saying,so should a child believe a parent when that parent is trying to tell them the truth. I'm speaking for myself here. My 3 tbm kids will not even listen to me about anything,won't even talk to me at all. I am yesterday's trash. And dh said "My children are first,church second,wife third" And he showa me every day that is just how he feels. The pain and despair I have been through because of the rejection of my children can only be understood by all of you here. If only things could be different.

Damn man...sorry your dad is not as understanding as you would like....or should be..... so many times i have read that the church is more important than someones child/spouse/family....to me that is so sad.... it is not you GLA!! keep in mind that he does come from a different generation...that does not make it right... just that he was brought up in a different mindset..... empathy is sorely lacking in his viewpoint..... dont have any advice... but... know ya got support out here!! :) e-mail me anytime ya want dude!! :)

I know I'm throwing a pity party for myself, and I'm the only stripper that bothered to show up, but this is the first time a stab like this has come from a member of my immediate family.

I'm still very wrapped up in the emotion of it all. I know when it wears off and I'm in a different mindset, I'll be able to work through this.

I'm just not sure exactly what way to go right now.

GayLayAle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm still very wrapped up in the emotion of it
> all. I know when it wears off and I'm in a
> different mindset, I'll be able to work through
> this.
>
> I'm just not sure exactly what way to go right
> now.

It's very similar to any other type of mourning, shock, bargaining, acceptance...

There are so many other areas of mourning besides a death. With regard to family there is: Mourning what was, but wasn't enough. Mourning what was, but shouldn't have been. Mourning what should have been, but wasn't. Etc. etc.

You are in the first bit of mourning what you thought was, but what you have now found out wasn't, with regard to how your dad thinks and feels.

After the initial hurt and confusion, you'll work your way through some of the mourning process and things will look a little more clear.

Easy for me to say all this in a logical manner, but I know it feels a lot different when you are right in the thick of it. Sorry.

I'd offer you a virtual hug. It sounds like you more than need it.

Hey, Mikey...
Hang in there, bud! I've had it relatively easy in this whole process, because there is nary a Mormon in my family, and no one really gives a large rodent's rear about the fact that I'm gay. But I see this scenario playing out with so many of my friends, and it never ceases to make me sad and uncomfortable.
Could it be time to 'cut your losses?'
Would that alienate your siblings?

Wish I could provide answers [I can't], but all I can do is add yet another virtual hug to the mix and let you know that I'm thinking about you, and hurting for you.

All the best to you and DH!

DH wasn't raised LDS and doesn't have the same issues with his parents. He's being so wonderful, but he self-admittedly doesn't really know what I'm going through.

Helps to know there are people out there that do.

Their number one way of controlling their members is by coming between family members. It's divide and conquer in TSCC's own interest.

It is so hurtful and sad that they can use your own family members as weapons against you - to make you conform to the Mormon (Joe Smith) plan or punish you if you dont.

I lost my own Dad at age 11, and then grew up the rest of the way with my Mother's dislike and disapproval. Although not gay, I was interested in things like science and math which she found to be very strange.

May your healing period be short.....

I'm so very sorry, GayLayAle. He has no clue what he is doing.

There really are no words that I can offer to fix this.

I know you will rise above it--not like life has been easy for you so far, but I can't imagine how you must be feeling.

I'm going to go out on a limb here--I'm not your mother, but I am a mother. Your mother wouldn't go along with this.

I would give every last possession I have and cut off all my limbs to have her here right now. This is when I could really use her advice.

I understand. I lost my parents 2 years ago. You can't really tell someone what it is like--and how much you need them at times.

Even if I didn't know what you have said about your mother, your mother would never go along with this attitude.

GayLayAle--

Do you think your dad would feel differently if your mother were still alive? (You said your step-mother is heinous.)

AND do you think your dad may be HOLDING SO TIGHTLY to church teachings because he wants to see your mother again some day? Hoping they are right?

I know in the 2 months between my mother's death and my dad's (even though my dad wasn't very TBM, more a believer at the end)--that he "hoped" I'd go back to church, but he didn't bug me about it--AND he was SO WORRIED about paying his tithing (she died just before Christmas) because what would he do when he saw her again--how angry would she be at him if their tithing wasn't paid on time the last year of her life.

Your dad may be clinging this tightly to mormonism because he has to believe he gets to see your mother again.

(I do believe in an afterlife--so I don't worry about it--but mormons sure are nuts about being "perfect" so they can make it.) My mormon-believing siblings tell my disabled brother all the time, "You better be good or you won't see mom and dad again." I have to calm him down about it all the time.

(Just a thought as to why he has taken this attitude.)

And yes, his wife is an evil harpie.

But you're right- I think my dad lives with that fear that if he isn't the way the church wants him to be that he won't see her again.

I love how they use fear on them--he is afraid and so he does this to his son. It is a sick, sick church.

When my dad went to pay his tithing, my dad's knees were so bad, he could barely walk, but refused to use a walker, etc. He had to chase the bishop down the hall at the church. Then the bishop didn't want to change the books because tithing settlement had been over for weeks, but my dad insisted. He was frantic that something would keep him from seeing my mom again.

When he told me about it, I said, "Don't you think God would understand?" He said, "You're right."

I'm sorry they have your dad so scared he has to cling to the religion that rejects his son to keep the hope that he can see his wife again.

I'm always amazed at the strength of the brain-washing in a cult. At one point in my TBM life, I felt tremendous pressure to choose TSCC over my pony-tail wearing, bass guitar playing son, who was and is a great kid. TSCC ward leadership was convinced he was a drug addict. (He wasn't.) Long story short, I chose him and never received another leadership, teaching or high-profile calling again. (I'd been in stake leadership for a long time.)

What kind of church puts a parent in that position? (Yes! Only a cult!!!)

Really strange thing is . . . a cult also teaches you to choose IT over YOURSELF. It damages individuals by draining them of their resources, when you would think eons of evolutionary self-survival would kick in. Nope. Cults damage children and rob parents of the authentic relationships they could be having with their children. Everybody loses.

Truth is, you may never know what your dad really thinks, 'cuz when BKP speaks, the thinking has been done.

Is this entirely about you being gay, or is it because your father know you do not like his wife, so he is hostile to you because of that? He might realise how heinous she is, but chooses to gloss over that. Anyone who can remind him how much nicer your mum is would make him angry. And he might take that out on you.

Or he could just be a Packerite, homophobic nutjob.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2010 04:58PM by matt.

This fucking stinks. I don't know why I'm continually amazed at the brainwashing this cult does, but sometimes I still am. You broke through the brainwashing, but obviously your dad has not and seems to have no desire to. All you can do is be your authentic self (sorry to go all Oprah on you) and live your life the best you can. Take care.

"Truth is, you may never know what your dad really thinks, 'cuz when BKP speaks, the thinking has been done".

Mike, I don't know any of the background, so I could be wrong

BUT what I do know is that people can believe two mutually incompatible things, so your Dad can say that he supports BKP (bascially he's forced to by his beliefs) and still ABSOLUTELY SUPPORT YOU AS HIS SON at the same time. Even though that makes no sense in any kind of logical way.

I see this with pepole who say they believe 100% in the Koran and also believe with total conviction in what the Koran would never allow. Pushed into a corner they just repeat that they believe in the Koran with more and more fervour.

Your Dad may carry on through the rest of his life parroting what hes told to say. But I really, really do hope that he still supports you in his heart and 100% as well.

you got it. you may very much want your father to support you, but only he can make that decision. it's up to you to decide whether to care if he does or not. you can't choose not to be gay, but you can choose to ignore what your relatives or anyone else thinks about your lifestyle. good luck