I am a lifelong member of the Church who has never believed in it. By all appearances, I'm a believing Mormon woman. Temple marriage, full tithe-payer, active in the Church - hell, I'm in the Relief Society presidency. I've never been a Molly Mormon, per se - I'm quite open about feminism, politics, and an unwillingness to have kids yet (my husband and I have only been married 2 1/2 years), which in Texas I can tell you has garnered its fair share of nasty remarks. But I think people would be shocked if I were to leave the church.

My husband is devout. I love him, but it would have been easier if I hadn't met him. Leaving the church would be so much easier if I wasn't married. Don't get me wrong - I don't want to leave him. I just acknowledge that my marriage adds another layer of complication to my already-complicated relationship with religion. I am completely honest with him - he knows exactly where I stand. He feels hurt, though, as if my disbelief means I undervalue our marriage or don't want to be with him forever. I've told him he can leave me if he wants to so that he can have the Mormon family he wants, but he's said he would never do that. And for that I'm glad, which makes me feel guilty. I hate feeling like I'm disappointing him and hurting him. Most of all, I hate knowing that he's still hoping I'll magically wake up one morning with a testimony.

Both my parents were born and raised in the church. I'm the oldest of five kids - the youngest three still live at home. My family was always very active in Church. My dad's been in a branch presidency; my mom's the Stake Primary President. My extended family, too, is almost entirely LDS. I'm not too concerned about my extended family on my mom's side. If/when I leave the church, they'll be disappointed but not judgmental. My dad's side is a different story. I have one aunt on my dad's side who left the church a few years ago, and I know how my family talks about her. I hate the idea of them talking about me like that. I've talked to my aunt about where I stand. She says that leaving the Church was worth it - despite the fact that half her family thinks she's the Antichrist and a whore - but then again, her circumstances were different. She left the church at the same time that she got a divorce - it made it easier for her to make a clean break of it.

And then there's my parents. I know they'd love me no matter what, but it would completely change our relationship and they wouldn't trust me around my younger brothers and sisters anymore. Once, when I was a freshman in college, a gay friend of mine challenged me to tell them I was bisexual just to see what they would do. They assured me that they loved me, but started talking to me like I was a dangerous and emotionally disturbed child. They told me not to tell anyone - not even my husband if I got married. They asked questions that suggested they weren't sure I could be safely left alone with my roommates or female friends. The next day, I told them that my friend had put me up to it. Their relief was heartbreaking to me, because what neither they nor my friend knew was that it hadn't actually been a lie.

I care less about what my in-laws think, except that they'll have a further impact on my husband's pain. They would never want to come to our home again, which would be fine by me, but it would make my husband sad. My husband's sister, who is transgendered, left the church a few years ago and her parents have not been supportive at all of her religious choice or her transition (they still call her "he," etc.). She and I don't talk for unrelated reasons (she said something nasty to my husband and I called her a bitch), but I'm sure that if my in-laws could treat their own child the way they have, they'll treat their daughter-in-law even worse.

I'm going to have to stay a member of the Church (or appear to, anyway) for the next few years at least - there's no way around that. I'm in the middle of BYU-I's Pathway program, and intend to finish my degree through BYU-I's online degree program. I hate it - I wish I could attend a secular university - but at $65 a credit hour I can't afford not to finish my degree this way.

But once I finish school things are going to get more complicated. I'm coming to realize that my self-worth is largely dependent on my integrity, and I don't want to feel like I'm being deceptive anymore. More importantly, my husband and I will likely start talking about having children at that point, and I can't let my children be indoctrinated. I know my husband would want to bring them to Church, but the only way I would be okay with that is if I teach them to question things and make their own decisions about what to believe. Which gives me two options: either I leave the Church before having children, or I keep going through the motions while simultaneously raising my children according to the dictates of my conscience until I get excommunicated.

I'm not angry with the Church. Maybe that's because I've never really believed in it. I've read about people "waking up" and feeling betrayed when they realize what they've given their lives to. I don't feel that, but then again I've never truly identified as a believer. It was always just easier to go through the motions. I didn't want to shake things up unnecessarily or hurt anyone.

But I can't keep going through the motions anymore, and I don't know what to do. There's no way to really win. If I quietly slip into inactivity, or tie my leaving the church to something like a move, I'll be accused of hiding some terrible sin, or being ashamed. But if I leave the church publicly, not only will I get a lot more backlash, but it will hurt people, and I don't want that. I know I shouldn't care what people think, but I do.

I feel so trapped, and I don't know what to do.

Welcome. I think many can relate.

It gets complicated, doesn't it!

My husband figured it out before me. He slowly fed me information. It took me 10 years to figure it out on my own! He waited.

You will need to decide what will work best for you.

Is there any way you can get your husband to read with you (ask for his input as you go). If he is any kind of rational thinker, there is a chance things will click.

There are many books you can ask him to read with you. In Sacred Loneliness is a book by a member in good standing, Compton, that makes it hard for any guy not to see the tactics of JS to get access to women.

If he is able to start reading heavy duty books like what BY and JS actually wrote, it can raise a flag. (Parts of the Journal of Discourses are absolutely laughable.)

Some people have success just coming out to their spouse and letting the chips fall where they may.

I would mostly suggest that before you do anything brash, assure your education is complete and hopefully get settled in a job. It can be very difficult if you are dependent on someone to phase out of the church. Prepare for possible alienation. Hopefully your family and environment will accept your decisions. You will resent the church even more if you are trapped.

I think others may have suggestions. For me, it was about study. The information is out there for anyone who wants to know. When the student is ready, the teacher appears.

Welcome and good luck.
This site is raw and honest. Many are shocked by the blunt views that will come out. Take your time and enjoy your own quest. It's your authentic life, or your McMormon life. You will need to decide.

Hopefully others will recommend other books and tactics.

Life out of the church is rich and diverse. My biggest regret is that I didn't see through it sooner.

Is there any way that you can salvage your marriage with truth to your husband? Have you talked to him about the reasons for your lack of belief? Has he studied any of the latest literature--and does he have an accurate understanding of the Church's teachings and past?

The situation between you and your husband sounds to me like the hardest decision you'll have to make, because the longer you stay in the marriage, the more difficult it will be for the two of you to move on and part ways, if that's the result. I wouldn't want my children indoctrinated either, and to go through the betrayal that a lot of members feel later on in their lives. That might be a deal-breaker on down the road, or at the minimum cause strain, should you two stay together.

I understand where you are. I'm not married, but I am dating a divorced Mormon (he married Molly-mormon after a few weeks of courtship when he was young), and one of our biggest holds up is the faith question (I am an inactive Mormon). Him and I are at a tough point where he'll have to make a decision in the aftermath of the Essays being released, and my very clear stance now that is against the Church. He hasn't read the Essays yet due to time constraints, but he is concerned about their content with what I've explained to him. I won't ever raise my children in the Church, and I will find that my partner and I are fundamentally incompatible, if he turns his back on truth and integrity (he's a very logical, evidence-oriented man). We won't make it through it, despite all the difficult things we've gone through together, and our break will have to happen before kids come into the picture.

I am very sorry to read this from you. In my opinion, take the cheap education and finish it off--maintain ties with family who are understanding and open, and try to keep your marriage on honest terms that will good for the both of you and your children long term.

Hi, I feel your pain.
I'd echo dagny, life outside the church is so much more interesting and rewarding. My biggest regret is that I too didn't see through it sooner.

Men are typically logical, can you use his logic as dagny suggested. Pick 3 or 4 things that are the historical bombshells and evidence against the church and ask your husband to help you study them, to try and resolve your questions. If he gives an honest effort, he'll start to see the obvious problems. He may not leave, but he'll perhaps understand a little more.

After reading your post, I'd suggest your self worth is not tied to your integrity at all, it is very strongly tied to what others think of you.

Which is completely normal in the Mormon religion, it is how you are raised and how they keep so many people who know it is true in. My son is another example, he knows it is not true, he doesn't enjoy anything about church, but he won't stop going because he is worried how others will judge him, and think negatively of him.

You have never in your life believed, but you met and married a devout LDS man in the temple and pay a full tithe?

That definitely makes things more difficult for both you and the man you married I'm sure. He married you with the idea in his head that he was marrying a women who believed in TSCC and had the same goals/ideals as he did.

I totally get when believers get married and then one partner finds the truth about the church while the other wont listen and the problems it causes in a marriage, but it would be even more difficult to find that after years of marriage your spouse has never believed in the things you did from the very start.

That's a very tough situation and you are going to need to be very careful with how you let your husband know your feelings. It will most likely be very difficult for him to understand.

Hello n42c

I read your thoughtful and sincere post with close attention. I hope something I say will help you find the clarity you seek and deserve.

As someone who's about seen it all with Mormonism and ex-Mormonism, here are my two cents:

First, know that there are no options here that do not have costs. I mention that because sometimes we postpone making decision in hopes that we'll find one without any costs; but in this case, all your options have those. Your task is to look ahead into the future - 5, 10, 20, 30, 40 years - and choose the path now which will yield the most peace and joy for you throughout your life, at lowest overall cost.

Second, you did not mention any attempts by you to show your husband that Mormonism is a fraud (and that might be an option with quite a low cost). As a formerly believing male, I can tell you that you merely letting your husband know that you don't believe will not in any way puncture his belief balloon, or even get him wondering. He'll only think of your disbelief as an indication of your spiritual defectiveness, or some quirk of personality, which he hopes one day will disappear.

I believe that you must ask your husband to confront the sobering facts about Mormonism as soon as possible. Here's why:

You sitting down with him and expressing your sincere desire for him to thoroughly read something like "An Insider's View of Mormon Origins" by Grant Palmer, or "Letter to a CES Director" by Jeremy Runnells, constitutes a *test* to see what kind of man he really is, and how much he values you. (I recommend either or both of those things to give to him.)

For example, if he refuses despite knowing how important that is to you...that's a bad indication for your future. It means your needs and feelings are not as important to him as his own wish to keep on believing in Mormonism. And that means in turn that in case of future conflict, he won't value your perspectives on child-rearing with regards to the Mormon church, etc. He might grudgingly compromise, but never because he thinks your feelings are valid - only because he has to. That would suck.

However, if he consents to read the material you give to him, he will either (A) stop believing, or (B) keep on believing.

If (A), then you have a chance to know the *real* him - the him without Mormonism. If he stays about the same - wow. You have a real chance at a long, happy life together, without conflict about whether to raise the kids as Mormons. If he changes, better you know - like, right now. Before you have any kids. You would then both move on, with sorrow, but at least knowing you had a chance of a happy future with someone new who shares your values and outlook.

And don't discount the possibility of a big change in him without Mormon belief. I had no doubt I knew my own (ex) wife thoroughly; but how she changed - or perhaps, reverted to a type I had no idea existed - after we discovered the truth about Mormonism, shocked me, and made marriage completely impossible. And our kids really suffered because of our break-up.

If (B), you'll know at least that he values you over his desire to just keep on believing in Mormonism (in that he risked his beliefs to meet your need). That's a good sign.

Third, if at some point you decide to leave, *you* write up your story - your exact reasons why you have concluded Mormonism is not true - and send it around to all of your family members *before* any second- or thirdhand reports get back to them. YOU control your story. You don't allow unintended communication problems or malicious gossip to taint the minds of your loved ones. If you but own your story from the get-go, and phrase things in just the right way, there is a pretty good chance that you will pre-emptively take away their ability to slander you in the way you have seen others slandered.

Good luck.

Email me if you'd like to discuss further: tcrbachman@gmail.com.

Tal (posting as Dr. Love :)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2015 06:59PM by Tal Bachman.

The longing that you have now for integrity and freedom will only increase over your lifetime. There may very well be a point where the thought of going to church will be intolerable for you. In your shoes I would be asking myself if you really want to raise your (future) children in a church where people feel that it's okay to shun you if you believe differently than they do. Trust me, this isn't normal!

Try to envision how you want your life to look in ten years, in twenty years. How would you ideally be spending your Sundays? What sort of church might you like to go to, if any? What would your children's weddings look like? Try to form a vision for what you want out of your life, and take it from there. If you don't decide, others will.

Hi,

Your situation is a very difficult one. It's terribly hard to think about doing things that might hurt the people you love. Many of us have faced that, in one way or another, and it is never easy.

Two things that stand out to me --- your husband doesn't want to leave you, but you think he may feel that you "don't want to be with him forever." That Mormon belief that only TSCC has the way for families (or any people who love each other) to be together in eternity is one of the worst things about the church, to me.

It might help a bit if you could talk to him about the simple fact that many, many religions hold that loved ones will be together in the afterlife. It is not really exclusive to Mormonism. The only thing exclusive to Mormonism is the idea that you have to do special things in order to assure it. Most people who believe in an afterlife also believe that love and compassion are entirely enough to allow you (and him) to be with loved ones forever.

Another thing that might help is to read SusieQ#1's post on staying together with a true believer. She is a person who made it work well, so it might be useful for you, too. Her post can be found at

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1274642,1274642#msg-1274642

Who knows, maybe if you printed it and gave it to your husband, it might help him, too.

Otherwise, just let him know that you love him as often as possible, in whatever ways might be helpful. With any luck, you might be able to find a way to navigate the really hard stuff, like how to raise children, together.

You are trapped because at different times throughout your life including today you fail to confront the reason why you remain Mormon.

You have failed to confront Mormonism. Perhaps you felt it would go away on its own or from the work of others, but it will not. If you fail to confront your Mormonism, you will remain Mormon.

I don't think this is mean to say, just seems obvious to me that you remain Mormon, inspite of not wanting to be Mormon, because you haven't done much to stop being Mormon.

To me it looks like your short term plan is to not change your behavior either. You seem to hope that others will do the hard work of changing.

How many kids will get to be BIC because of this behavior?

....I would like to add, I am sorry you are in this pinch. Please figure your way out as soon as possible. I wish I could tell you there is a way to ease the pain and conflict. Some say they have, but reading what you have wrote, you are going to put at risk relationships.

That is more acceptable than throwing away your life year by year, month by month, day by day to Mormonism. Please reconsider a degree from a Mormon school--once you leave, you will not want to discuss Mormonism at the same times people are making normal social small talk about your education. If you can, don't allow Mormonism to be in that part of your future. (I am a BYU-Provo grad)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2015 08:08PM by gentlestrength.

Do I ever know what you are going through!

I hope you can find a path that leaves you happy, fulfilled and able to do that which you really want to do.

Blessings to you (from wherever they come from!:-))

The really hard part about a cost/benefit analysis is this: often, the benefit is enjoyed by many people widely, including the future generation, your own children when they grow up; but the cost is paid individually, and right now. People can always count the cost because they pay it. They cannot always see and properly value the benefit, it's bigger and more unpredictable than they can imagine when confronting the cost.

What you're facing is paying a high cost that's imposed by an unjust society. This is why Jesus said "I bring a sword." It didn't have anything to do with his waging war. It's that in an unjust society, one cannot necessarily stop others from waging the war they harbor. All you want to do is to be free to follow your conscience, publically, without hiding, something that has been allowed in this country under the Constitution since its founding two hundred years ago. That so-called patriots can happily deny rights granted in the very first amendment, and have their leaders whine about how oppressed they are, is the height of irony. Yet, the fact remains, you're not asking to do anything wrong. But unfair punishment may be heaped upon you. The bully will punch until the kid stands up to him in some way. However, when more people do stand up, and they realize the bullies are paper tigers--they're not punching, they're frowning and administering stern looks--the tide will turn. For everyone. When enough parents cannot control their adult children through pouting and tantruming, and their children leave them, taking the grandkids with them, they'll quit. But maybe not before. I don't know. There are so many ways for this to work out well, you don't have to get negative, give in to fear, and quit before it actually plays itself out.

One more thing, about your husband, there is a very good chance he feels exactly the way you do--not about belief, but about terror of running afoul of anyone: parent, sibling, minor church potentate, fellow priesthood holder. This religion may be the only thing giving him a sense of self-worth. You avoid confronting the bullies by pretending to believe, and being very camoflauged and convincing. He may keep the bullies at bay by swallowing everything hook, line, and sinker. Therefore, if you do show him the truth, and he reacts strongly against it, don't suppose immediately he really believes deep down. He may be only trying to back you down so he won't have to face the consequences of admitting the truth. Remember, your vicious inlaws are his vicious parents. So, be very patient. Remember his fears may even deeper than yours.

You are juggling many fears and are an imposter in your own life. I would consider a non-Mormon therapist to help sort things out.

You're feeling overwhelmed looking at the big picture, when it may make sense to separate some issues into manageable challenges.

Making decisions can be painful, but delaying your life and feeling deceptive can be more painful.

I wish you well. You are stronger than you know.

Seems to me you have thought things through and it is reasonable to finish your degree without making waves.

Once done, you can re-evaluate the status of your marriage and your membership.

I was almost like you. I'm a nevermo, but I was going to marry a Mormon guy and join the church for him even though I didn't believe in any of it. His TBM family made him call off the wedding (three of my great-grandparents were African-American so I was "cursed" in their view) and I've always wondered what my life would have been like.

Everyone has given great advice here. I would just add one thing. I know it is hard to think of hurting your family, but you should not live your life to please them. They have their own lives that they can live how they would like, and you have yours. You are responsible for how you live. It is you living with the consequences of your choices. So far, you do not like the way it feels to live to please other people, even the family you love.

Please do explain in detail to your husband and any other family member who wants to listen. However, to be truly happy, you are going to have to distance yourself from the way your family feels about your choices. Their reactions or words may be painful to you at times, but that will be minor compared to the relief and joy of living an authentic life where you are true to yourself and others. Remember that anything they do in reaction to you leaving TSCC is due to the false beliefs they buy into that somehow you are lost to them for eternity. You know that is not true.

The mormon church has set up all their rules to provoke exactly this kind of "enforcement" to keep people in no matter their actual beliefs. Do not continue to fall for this, but break the cycle now. You have the power over your own life, use it! Stay calm in the face of your family's anger and sadness. Tell them there is no reason to be sad. You know you are doing the right thing. You are not less than, evil, or deceived. Do not act like you should be sorry for living your own life. Be kind to your family and reassure them that you still love them all the same, but you are going to be you.

Dear n42c;

I'm glad you've found this site. Some very wise and caring people are here, many of whom have been in your shoes.

Like a coconut, this is a hard slice no matter how you cut it.

I'm with Leah on this. Get your degree, then go from there.

And a piece of totally unsolicited advice - don't get pregnant before you have a concrete plan.

Best Wishes to you.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2015 12:00PM by tenaciousd.

That's what happens when you give up your integrity. If you ever

tell your husband the truth you will be doubly damned since

he will never recover from the fact that you have lied to him

all these years. He'll never believe you again and neither will

anyone else that you fooled. You can only hope that it was

worth it. Somehow I doubt it.

I wish to clarify one thing: I have never once lied to my husband about the Church or how I feel about it. I have not been "lying to him all these years." We married when we were at BYU. I was 20. He knew I didn't believe, but after talking to him I decided that it would be best to keep living as a Mormon for that time. So yes, I married him in the temple. At the time, I thought it was the best course of action. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. Looking back, I can see that I was more under the influence of the Provo bubble than I thought I was. Regardless, what is done is done. I don't think my marriage was a mistake.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2015 01:09PM by n42c.

There seems to be need for clarification on one point. As I said to one person already, I have never once lied to my husband about the Church or how I feel about it. I have not been "lying to him all these years." We married when we were at BYU. I was 20. He knew I didn't believe, but after talking to him I decided that it would be best to keep living as a Mormon for that time. So yes, I married him in the temple. At the time, I thought it was the best course of action. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. Looking back, I can see that I was more under the influence of the Provo bubble than I thought I was. Regardless, what is done is done. I don't think my marriage was a mistake.

My husband is perfectly aware how I feel about the Church. He always has been. We talk about it often and in depth. He doesn't, however, really "get it" - he thinks that I'm just having doubts, and that I'll come around eventually. Up until this point, he has refused to read what he considers "anti-Mormon literature."

Last night, after talking to my husband about the Church (as I often do), we made a deal. I will live for the next month in private as if I believe, rather than just in public (I will say prayers, read scriptures, etc.). In return, he will read whatever I ask him to. I hope that, at the very least, this will help him better understand where I am coming from.

I would like to thank many of you for your sincere, kind, and helpful words. It has been a relief to me just to be able to voice these things to people who understand. You have helped me in finding a short-term course of action that will, I hope, lead to a long-term course of action.

To others of you, I would like to thank you for reminding me that being judgmental is not exclusive to Mormonism.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2015 01:42PM by n42c.

n42c Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There seems to be need for clarification on one
> point. As I said to one person already, I have
> never once lied to my husband about the Church or
> how I feel about it. I have not been "lying to him
> all these years." We married when we were at BYU.
> I was 20. He knew I didn't believe, but after
> talking to him I decided that it would be best to
> keep living as a Mormon for that time. So yes, I
> married him in the temple. At the time, I thought
> it was the best course of action. Maybe it was,
> maybe it wasn't. Looking back, I can see that I
> was more under the influence of the Provo bubble
> than I thought I was. Regardless, what is done is
> done. I don't think my marriage was a mistake.
>
> My husband is perfectly aware how I feel about the
> Church. He always has been. We talk about it often
> and in depth. He doesn't, however, really "get it"
> - he thinks that I'm just having doubts, and that
> I'll come around eventually. Up until this point,
> he has refused to read what he considers
> "anti-Mormon literature."
>
> Last night, after talking to my husband about the
> Church (as I often do), we made a deal. I will
> live for the next month in private as if I
> believe, rather than just in public (I will say
> prayers, read scriptures, etc.). In return, he
> will read whatever I ask him to. I hope that, at
> the very least, this will help him better
> understand where I am coming from.
>
> I would like to thank many of you for your
> sincere, kind, and helpful words. It has been a
> relief to me just to be able to voice these things
> to people who understand. You have helped me in
> finding a short-term course of action that will, I
> hope, lead to a long-term course of action.
>
> To others of you, I would like to thank you for
> reminding me that judgmental douchebags aren't
> exclusive to Mormonism.


Did someone call you a douchebag? What are you?

I apologize if I offended you, gentlestrength. Your remarks were actually ones I found to be helpful. You were right - I needed to act.

I just don't appreciate those who have accused me of marrying my husband under false pretenses.

That said, I have modified my post to remove the word "douchebags."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2015 01:42PM by n42c.

I don't think it offended me, I think it reflected badly on you to say. I wish you wouldn't have said it, because almost everything else you wrote sounded really solid and thoughtful.

You have a lot going on and are under a lot of stress.

Glad what I wrote was helpful. I will be hopeful that you can sort this out as best you can!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2015 02:06PM by gentlestrength.

Hi n42c

From your very first post it was obvious you had told your husband about your lack of belief. I don't know why some didn't read that far into your post.

Your deal with your husband is very, very good. Now get him to read some useful facts about the church and he'll start to have his own doubts.

The chance of you turning around is very, very low. the chance of him understanding your position is very, very high. TBMs that make these agreements assume that the church has nothing to hide, and that anti's make stuff up. He'll soon find out the "anti's" were right.

Also keep in mind that some people who post here are going through their own pain, and lash out easily.

Those in the middle of their own journey out of the church are at their most vulnerable time, as they try to comprehend just how they have been deceived for all these years. Lashing out is normal until they get far enough away to start to be truly happy again.

As you know, it IS a BIG deal to leave the church.

n42c Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There seems to be need for clarification on one
> point. As I said to one person already, I have
> never once lied to my husband about the Church or
> how I feel about it. I have not been "lying to him
> all these years." We married when we were at BYU.
> I was 20. He knew I didn't believe, but after
> talking to him I decided that it would be best to
> keep living as a Mormon for that time. So yes, I
> married him in the temple. At the time, I thought
> it was the best course of action. Maybe it was,
> maybe it wasn't. Looking back, I can see that I
> was more under the influence of the Provo bubble
> than I thought I was. Regardless, what is done is
> done. I don't think my marriage was a mistake.
>
> My husband is perfectly aware how I feel about the
> Church. He always has been. We talk about it often
> and in depth. He doesn't, however, really "get it"
> - he thinks that I'm just having doubts, and that
> I'll come around eventually. Up until this point,
> he has refused to read what he considers
> "anti-Mormon literature."
>
> Last night, after talking to my husband about the
> Church (as I often do), we made a deal. I will
> live for the next month in private as if I
> believe, rather than just in public (I will say
> prayers, read scriptures, etc.). In return, he
> will read whatever I ask him to. I hope that, at
> the very least, this will help him better
> understand where I am coming from.
>
> I would like to thank many of you for your
> sincere, kind, and helpful words. It has been a
> relief to me just to be able to voice these things
> to people who understand. You have helped me in
> finding a short-term course of action that will, I
> hope, lead to a long-term course of action.
>
> To others of you, I would like to thank you for
> reminding me that being judgmental is not
> exclusive to Mormonism.


In the future N42c, if you don't want people's opinions dont

come to this site complaining about your life and expect

people to jump on board your pity train. Time to put on the big

girl panties and fix it.

n42c

Are you able to reach out to other former Mo's in your area?

I'm in Houston and could be a real person to talk to, instead of an anonymous internet person? My wife is a never-mo, but she totally gets the power that Mormonism has over people.

n42c,

It was clear from reading your original post that you were being as genuine as possible with your husband. I am sad that some people wrote responses based on having missed significant parts of what you said.

I hope that you will continue to post here, and select the useful points as they come across. Some of the angry responses remind me of a point that SusieQ#1 often makes (SQ#1, I hope that you do not mind my quoting you). Here is a copy of information from one of her posts concerning "The Four Agreements" by don Miguel Ruiz:

"The second agreement is simply this: Don’t take anything personally.

He explains:

Whatever happens around you, don’t take it personally … Nothing other people do is because of you. It is because of themselves. All people live in their own dream, in their own mind; they are in a completely different world from the one we live in. When we take something personally, we make the assumption that they know what is in our world, and we try to impose our world on their world.

Even when a situation seems so personal, even if others insult you directly, it has nothing to do with you. What they say, what they do, and the opinions they give are according to the agreements they have in their own minds … Taking things personally makes you easy prey for these predators, the black magicians. They can hook you easily with one little opinion and feed you whatever poison they want, and because you take it personally, you eat it up …

But if you do not take it personally, you are immune in the middle of hell. Immunity in the middle of hell is the gift of this agreement."

Best wishes!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2015 02:14PM by peculiargifts.

peculiargifts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> n42c,
>
> It was clear from reading your original post that
> you were being as genuine as possible with your
> husband. I am sad that some people wrote responses
> based on having missed significant parts of what
> you said.
>
> I hope that you will continue to post here, and
> select the useful points as they come across. Some
> of the angry responses remind me of a point that
> SusieQ#1 often makes (SQ#1, I hope that you do not
> mind my quoting you). Here is a copy of
> information from one of her posts concerning "The
> Four Agreements" by don Miguel Ruiz:
>
> "The second agreement is simply this: Don’t take
> anything personally.
>
> He explains:
>
> Whatever happens around you, don’t take it
> personally … Nothing other people do is because
> of you. It is because of themselves. All people
> live in their own dream, in their own mind; they
> are in a completely different world from the one
> we live in. When we take something personally, we
> make the assumption that they know what is in our
> world, and we try to impose our world on their
> world.
>
> Even when a situation seems so personal, even if
> others insult you directly, it has nothing to do
> with you. What they say, what they do, and the
> opinions they give are according to the agreements
> they have in their own minds … Taking things
> personally makes you easy prey for these
> predators, the black magicians. They can hook you
> easily with one little opinion and feed you
> whatever poison they want, and because you take it
> personally, you eat it up …
>
> But if you do not take it personally, you are
> immune in the middle of hell. Immunity in the
> middle of hell is the gift of this agreement."
>
> Best wishes!


This is one of the most powerful things you can do for yourself. Stop taking anything personally. Recognize that other people are talking about themselves, or their lives. Their comments are from them, them, it's not really about you. And, never believe anything about yourself that you know is not true.

Wouldn't we all like to be "immune" from suffering? The answer is simple, hard to do maybe.
Do not take anything personally anyone says or does.

I often say, when posting on the Internet: put on a Duck Suit and let stuff run off your back.
People can be gracious and nice and they can be nasty and mean.
Protect yourself!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2015 02:49PM by SusieQ#1.

n42c,

Thanks for sharing. I am currently going through a very very similar situation. I never really believed either, but i got married in the temple not too long ago. I guess i just thought at the time that hey, everybody wants to believe right? and i think someday if i keep just doing what everybody has been telling me to do i will eventually believe.

To my everlasting shame, i never talked to her about my doubts. I was so internal and my life was so engrained in mormonism i honestly didn't know much else. Plus i got married young so i didnt have much time to think for myself. Also, to my everlasting shame i did lie to my wife out of fear of the repercussion of telling her that i had come to the conclusion that God does not exist and that the Mormon church is a lie and a pernicious one at that. For nearly 3 years i stayed inside my head being tortured by isolated confinement. This all came to a head about 7 months ago when my wife found out through an email that i went to the Atheist Convention in SLC without her knowing. ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE. However, that being said, although its been like a severe whipping initially, the honesty that i now give to my wife has paid off and we have been able to compromise on some things and she is open.

Was it all my fault? Yes. Does that make the transition less hard, no. I am in such a similar situation to you. My wife, especially at first took this all to mean that our marriage did not mean as much and that she was married to a different person. My mom also found out, and just about had a nervous breakdown, cried for a full day. She told me to not tell my family, so i haven't. I still go to church and i am the Sunday school teacher. But i am moving out of Utah in a year and my wife has agreed to let me do what i want from there. She has also agreed to let me drink when i go to business cocktail and networking hours (huge deal).

But it's just hard. I don't have much advice, just wanted to reach out. Don't forget to look after yourself, as i did not for the longest time, and it just about drove me insane. It really stinks to be in a institution that punishes you so much for simply existing and thinking the way we do.

Best,