I'm new to this website. I'm about 4 months since I started being honest with myself about my doubts and openly began researching my faith. I'm attending BYUI; everyone I know or could meet is Mormon. I'm a life-long member, served a mission in the Mid-West stateside, and have been trying to overcome serious depression and social anxiety every since I returned home. The first real peace I've had in years was when I began looking into atheism on youtube. I finally gained the confidence in my free thinking to overcome the "anti-mormon" taboo about looking into "unapproved" sources that treat Mormon scripture and history critically. Now, I'm an atheist with occasional relapses of my old sinner-in-the-hands-of-an-angry-Mormon-God mentality. I don't know where to find people like me. I feel so alone, and it doesn't help that my old unworthiness mentality that heretofore kept me anti-social from other mormons has now been replaced by the taboos and fear of church-discipline that comes with dissenting from the norm. help? advice?

Welcome Colddodger!

I went to BYUI when it was Ricks, but I was still a full TBM at the time.

Keep your chin up. Things will seem really hard at times, but there is light at the end of the tunnel.
This site and others are great for reading others experiences. People will be honest with you, and tell you what you should hear. That doesn't mean you will always want to hear it though.

You are in a bit of a pickle since you are still in school at a church school. Are you close to finishing? If you lose your bishop endorsement then you will have to find somewhere else to go. So you need to decide if you can keep it on the down low until you graduate.

I don't know what to offer as advice on that. Just do what you feel is right. And what you can live with.

Good Luck
WG

Ya. That's the pickle I'm in. My reasoning for wanting to stay at BYUI long enough to finish my degree is that my parents are paying for my education and they don't even know about my real feelings yet. This is a very recent development, the atheism thing, even though I've been struggling with mental illness for as long as I can remember, and if not directly caused by my Mormonism, it's always been closely related. I've barely been able to function, let alone individuate, so the best I could do all these years is what was expected of me by others, mostly my parents.

Help me out with some of the terms I see in these forums. TBM = true believing mormon? Anything I should know about these forums? What are the general rules for discussion?

Welcome to RFM. For abbreviations see: http://exmormon.org/d6/drupal/abbreviations

Colddodger: Have you received treatment for your mental illness, which you say you have been suffering from for a long time? Are you getting medical or psychological help for that, right now?

Properly treating your illness may help you stay healthy and safe, as you go through this transition. It may help you be less anxious and to stay calm and centered, as things unfold.

Please, take care of YOU.

Everyone else can be responsible for worrying about themselves.

I've seen professional counselors, but they were all LDS. I was on medication for a while. At one point in time, I was a danger to myself, but that was shortly after my return home from my mission.

It was a tough transition plus all my anxieties and worthiness issues came to a head, butting against the doubts for the church that had been accumulating since my teenage years and on through my mission.

I think I can say I've come through the thick of it. Part of why I haven't come out to anyone about my doubts is because I don't want their answers. I don't want to be pulled back into that mindset, that bubbling soup of hellish self-loathing and compulsive self-defeating un-justification. I've found a place of security in my private atheism and have begun a huge undertaking researching and keeping a journal of my thoughts and learnings.

I'm sure the worst is behind me, but I still have a lot of recovering to do. I remain anxiety-prone,and my social drive is in shambles. I'm 26 next month, unmarried, and trying to survive in the middle of Mormondom. I think I can say that nothing about this culture has ever been constructive for me psychologically, but it's all I've ever known and all I know how to do. Hopefully by connecting with you guys on these forums I can begin to build bridges that reconnect me with people outside of the church. :)

You will get differing advice on this decision as it is not simple.

I regret having a degree and personal and academic relationship from BYU because i want nothing to do with BYU.

It might be short-term practical, long term, a degree from BYU is an embarrassment for me. I have a degree in one of the more sterile areas, I can't imagine what it would be like professionally to have a liberal arts degree from a Mormon school.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2014 02:08PM by gentlestrength.

Your mental illness is absolutely connected to mormonism. My entire family has it, hell the entire state of Utah is flooded with it. I had it and am quickly getting over it now that I'm out of TSCC. It's definitely not a coincidence. It's related.

Welcome!!


You came to the right place.

You are NOT alone! Even though it can feel like that at times. You are not alone. There are many of us, and we all know and understand what you are going through.

Well done on coming this far with leaving the church. Give yourself time. That is the most important one of all. If you've been a lifelong member, you cannot expect yourself to be free of the mindset over night.

Go easy on yourself. Be nice to yourself.
You are NOT a sinner, there is no such thing, and you will learn to let go of the guilt that has been hammered into you all these years. It takes time.

ANd some people are more outgoing than others. Don't be so hard on yourself.

Come here, read, talk to us. There are many wonderful people here always willing to lend an ear and a shoulder.

You'll be okay.

My first personal article of faith is that I have the right to the feelings of self security that are essential to self-esteem. That was a breakthrough for me when I said that to myself and finally believed it. Thank you for just being here as an online presence. Heaven knows I haven't felt this welcome is a great while.

Welcome!
You are not alone. Many atheists here and elsewhere and even at YBU! You are going through a process. Give it time. Do what is necessary to take care of you. If you do all else will fall into place. It gets way way better. But it takes time. 40 years a member before I became atheist from too much education. Nyuck nyuck nyuck! When you're in the heart of the beast it's hard to find another living human that has been down your road that you can also trust to keep confidences. There are no confidences in Mormonism. Never forget that at YBU. Lie when needed to protect yourself. The whole system is a lie so there is no loss of integrity in such.

Be patient with yourself. Best validation I had was when I met with others who did understand our plights and put my arms around them and cried. I then had rock solid knowledge over and above internet interactions that I was not wrong crazy misguided and that ghosts, Angels, gods, pioneers or dead relatives were not watching me in my every action. Put those fears if you still harbor them to the graveyard of childish things.

If you can mentally do it and it will benefit you financially get a degree on the cheap. If not xfer out and make sure you are completely out paperwork wise so the the school cannot deny credits for non belief (which they have done many times).
Again you are so not alone. Hundreds of thousands have left in the last decade. Many have become atheist like you and I.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2014 10:23AM by AmIDarkNow?.

Be careful and do not use BYU-I computer resources, providers, or log-ins to make comments here. Meanwhile, be brave and continue to attend and do all the bullShiz that you have to endure in order to maintain your posture there. I would wager that more good will come from finishing than from being kicked out. And BYU can be so hostile to young students who doubt. We've found that out here many times over.

And if you live in approved off-campus housing, remember that your landlord is required to report you to "Standards" for any supposed infractions, too--like surfing websites not approved by the church. You have no privacy.

Good luck. Keep in touch.

BYU Idaho is not a good place for your mental health, social life or career development. It's a crappy junior college run by church extremists. Get the hell out.


Work out a plan to tell your parents that you need to change your major and go to a University. Shoot for the University of Idaho, or Utah State or University of Utah, if you don't have a definite plan otherwise. If you have another plan for another University go for it. Leave Rexburg in your rearview mirror, you will feel free and like a whole new life has openened up.

A degree from BYU-Idaho is pretty wothless, I have several nephews who wasted their time and money there and found that outside of Utah/Idaho nobody thinks their degree is worth anything.

If you move to a real school with non mormons and more liberal mormons your fears about acceptance, worthiness ect will disappear. Work out a plan with your parent to pay them back for your education. That way when they discover you don't believe they will not go crazy on you.

You have decided to trust yourself by looking at whatever facts you want. You now own yourself like you never did before. That is a brilliant place to be, and I want you to take a deep breath and spend a few minutes appreciating how really strong your mind and heart are to get to that point. You now have all the tools you need to continue to build the life you want, not the life someone else wants you to have.

Doesn't being part of the Mormon church feel like an arranged marriage?


And about feeling down--why on earth should thinking for yourself and being open to fact and truth be cause for depression? What you are doing is beautiful. You should be happy. It's the Mormon church that should be depressed--actually I think it is.

All the best. Just keep owning yourself.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2014 01:17PM by blueorchid.

Exactly like an arranged marriage, come to think of it. I remember thinking as a boy that my whole life was planned before me and I didn't really have a choice unless I wanted to follow satan and disobey God. I think that thought alone killed ambition to become anything important. I became a good scriptorian and part of my BYU delusion was to learn some scripture related field and work in the church archives, for farms, or even just a CES teacher. Silly me when I started looking into things online. Without mormonism, I wouldn't even have known who I was for the longest time. I know now that I love writing and literature, expositions and critiques. I love deconstructing my church-forged psyche and allowing myself to think freely for the first time in my life. It's more than eye-opening, more that soul-liberating. I'm in that phase right now where I want to learn all I can so I can theologically burn it all down if I come acrossed the opportunity. I have these sharp twinges of regret sometime when I think about all the wasted time trying to "fix" myself and please God. All the wasted time and energy, and even coming close to ending my life over it once. It's just not worth any of it. Mormonism took and took and took.

That took courage. Congratulations.

I too have depression and I wonder how much of it is attributable to Mormon induced guilt. I have a hard time differentiating between humility and self-loathing. In the church, if you question it means you are hard-hearted, prideful, and need to humble yourself. The problem is ALWAYS YOU! This makes it almost impossible to trust or accept YOURSELF! It's a never ending circle. Also, I feel guilt because I am supposed to be happy because I have the gospel, yet I have depression so happiness eludes me. But, all the TBMs like to insist my depression is from disobedience or unrepentant sin. Hah! I wish it was that easy to cure this disease! It all adds up to never being "good enough."

I guess what I'm saying is I understand your situation. Losing your faith is a scary thing and some days I want to just give up the fight and acquiesce to Mormonism. It's been so ingrained into me that my doubts mean I'm being deceived by Satan that some days I want to just run back to the security of blind faith. Yet I know the church is not good for my mental health.

You are fortunate that you haven't married yet and therefore have no obligations to anyone to stay in the church. Figure out what you want before committing to a relationship. It is very easy when depressed or anxious to assume the love of a partner will cure you because the highs of early love take the depression away. But, as you know, mental illness is mostly just maintainable, not curable.

Get some good meds-try different cocktails of meds till you find the right recipe for you. I have to take 7 different meds in varying doses to cope. Make sure and see a non lds shrink if you can. They can cut through the religious bullshit and show you logic and reason. I'm sure right now it feels like you'll never find solid ground again. I haven't found it myself yet but here's to hoping we do!

I'm convinced there's not as much wrong with me as I thought. A lot of it was because I gobbled up every rule and doctrine I ever heard about the fall and all the ways I was hurting Jesus every time I sinned. I know at least as much as that I'm "anxiety-prone." But those are the words of the Byui counselor. So I guess I have no idea what an actual proffetional's opinion would be. I get angry sometimes, because I know all the counselors are certified, but there's information that would benefit students that they withhold, because the church would fire them if they didn't do everything they could to keep faith alive at all costs. Damn the church! I feel like I've spent the last several years chasing my tail. The problem in those "therapy" sessions was always me and my sins, or so it felt like. The focus was not to dig into how my religion induces shame, fear, anxiety, and depression because of feelings of unworthiness, or how Mormonism affects my social life. None of that. It had to be anything and everything else before mormonism was to be questioned for having a hand in any of it. I have these fantasies of going back to see the same counselor just to call him out on his bs. How many people come through there that he doesn't tell that they don't need to take their religion so seriously that they become a danger to themselves? The student health center is full of poor souls who are emotionally breaking under burdens that are non-issues elsewhere. I was here when that anti-masturbation video made by President Clark went viral. The whole of it is just so stupid, I want to screem, but haven't had anyone to trust.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2014 05:06PM by colddodger.

It's my opinion that Clark has been extra dickish lately (not just the video, but also his asinine anti-ankle crusade) because he's seriously gunning for the next Q12 opening after the death of Monson or Packer. It's a tryout, and he's following the Bednar playbook.

Clark has nowhere else to go. His pratfall from Harvard to Rexburg killed his academic career. And so, he's desperately trying to convince his hard-line bosses that he can tighten the screws as needed.

He'll make GA eventually. IMO he's one of the finalists even now; it's just a matter of who has to die first.

I never gave much thought to it, but there is a mormon aristocracy, isn't there? The in-group from whom only is pooled the GAs.

I can relate with the mental health issues. I've been suicidal and depressed for a long time. Life got much harder when I left TSCC and I got steadily worse. It has just barely turned around after over a year. It does get better, and you have support here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2014 03:15PM by celloman.

It's good to meet kindred spirits.

...and I'm not.


Sorry. Couldn't resist.

"I think I can say that nothing about this culture has ever been constructive for me psychologically"

Son, no truer words have ever been spoken. I congratulate you on your courage to resist years of indoctrination. I am a BYU grad, RM, etc, but I'm 50 years old. I've only been out for 7 years. I wasted my life in that cult, i.e. money, time, effort, etc. Be glad that you are so young, have your life ahead of you, and will not be entangled in the cult. Life is so much better without that cult. I am an athiest now too. That cult really does mindf#$% people. I had a social anxiety problem post mission. I saw LDS counselors at BYU. They are the worst. Idiots. There is medication that really works. I am a new man, with the meds, which have help me overcome social anxiety. Last week I spoke gave a two hour lecture to a 1000 people. It went so well.

Welcome!

All though it doesn't feel like it, you are getting out early. You are not alone by any stretch. In fact, you're just ahead of the curve when it comes to young adults your age. Many of them are just starting to find out what you have, and they are coming to the same conclusions.

Hang in there and come back and visit to remind yourself that you have a support group. People who care—and not because they were assigned to you.

Take it slow. Cut yourself a break. And consider the advice you're getting here.

Welcome to the board, Colddoger! You will need to fly under the radar for as long as you are at BYUI. Do take full advantage of the mental health services offered there. Be sure to ask your counselor if everything you say is held in confidence. Do not sign any form that allows your counselor to relay information to your bishop.

Your day will come. You will not always need to live in the heart of the Morridor. Someday you will be in a better position to meet more like-minded individuals. Hang in there and keep posting. We are here for you.

You won't be in that school forever. Just finish what you've started and keep talking to us!!!

Congratulations on finding this website, you're in the right place!!!

Welcome. Age 26 is extraordinarily young to see the light if you have been indoctrinated since birth. Congratulations for studying your way out. It takes courage AND brains to see the fiction of Mormonism.

I am a former administrator at BYU-I. I was still TBM then and that place made me crazy. The kinds of things for which students were disciplined drove me up the wall. Plus, the town is so small it is very difficult to break-out and be yourself. I used to take long week-ends to Jackson, WY to just get around a different culture. Luckily, gas was not so expensive then.

My point here is that you need to get away from that environment. After I left I finally was able to see how depressed I had been. Getting away was what started me on the path to seeing all the lies I had never known about. I used only church approved sources and was still able to find enough information to see right through the cover-ups, lies, and white washing of history.

One suggestion for transferring out of your school and keeping your parents on board is to pick a major that BYU-I does not offer. That cannot be too difficult. Another tactic would be to tell your parents that your major teachers are too liberal and teaching things that make you doubt the church. If you already have the school you would like to attend in your sites, you can tell your parents that you have already met with the teachers there and they are not anti-Mormon and much better qualified teachers. This may seem devious but when you finally do get to the place where you can leave Mormonism and be open about it, you can honestly say that BYU-I was where the problems started. Being in that environment could ruin anyone's testimony!

Best wishes to you. Every day gets better as you grow and gain self-confidence in yourself and your own ability to recognize truth. Seeing how untrue Mormonism really is, is what made me angry and determined to get out and get smart. May your determination take you where you truly desire to be.

The tricky part about my parents is that our relationship is actually great. They respect me and I respect them. A major part of testimony came from my dad. I don't want to hurt them, but I know I have to ask myself how long I can wait on others until I'm true to myself. Part of the reason I was so depressed growing up is that my parents seemed so good and I so unworthy of them. Perhaps I'm still seeing them through a "honor thy father and thy mother" lense. There are attachment issues and helicopter parenting even this late in my life that drive me nuts. Idk, it becomes a complicated mixture of love and loathing. I suppose Mormonism has a Stockholm-like affect on all it touches. Love me or go to hell, says Jesus. I would havelved to see what our family dynamic was like if we had no religion always dictating everything. All his callings made my dad a tired old man way by his fifties and for a time turned my mother into a witchy tyrant trying to get the kids in line. I blame Mormonism for that. What we have today though is much better than it has ever been.

Your parents, through their LDS programming, haven't allowed you to individuate from them nor the religion. I stand by my statement that you need to get away, not cut yourself off, but get away from such close proximity of parents and not just church. Little by little you can talk less on the phone or whatever keeps them attached to your hip (Internet? Visits? Reunions? Whatever). Just be busy studying, etc. until they figure out that you have a life of your own. There is no need to be rude or unkind or unloving. Just start pulling away. And don't let them, or TSCC, guilt you. You aren't doing anything to be guilty about. Most men grow away from family and "cleeve" to others (not just wives).

Best.

One or the other might be kind of pretending to believe the stuff, out of a common but sick idea that it was good for you to be raised in the church, scam or not.

I go to the U of U and I've met some really great people here. Sure, there are the run-of-the-mill TBMs, but there are atheists and everyone in between. You just have to look.

I was in that dismal little town in the middle of nowhere in much the same situation once. If you have the means to go to a state school take the advice above and RUN!

My experience: I first trusted my Bishop and then a school counselor. Both betrayed my confidence and very quickly got me tossed out of school. If you have nowhere else to go, play the game and lie your ass off because you cannot trust ANYONE there, period.

If it is a choice between your education and your mental health, get help but not from an LDS counselor, shrink or other "professional". You cannot get adequate help from people that believe in magic and Mormonism and mental health simply do not go hand in hand. I know....because I'm damaged.

The good news is....one day you will be an old dude and look back on all of this as the time when you woke up. Welcome to the truth, my friend. It can be a tough pill at first but this chapter will pass and you'll look back on these lunatic mind-fucks (and that is what they are) with pity. Your mind is yours, not theirs and you are free to read, watch, listen to, experience anything you damn well please. Just remember while you're in OZ, the creeps behind the curtain are watching.