Over a year ago, my girl and her missionary boyfriend broke it off. It was very hurtful to her, as the week before he was talking marriage. But that is neither here nor there. Today, she gets a letter in the mail from him.

It was so odd. Talking of how seven months ago he sprained his ankle bad and that humbled him to talk to his mission president and tell him all is not well. First, wth? So, you are not humbled by the horrible ways you treated people, but your ankle doesn't work and you are submissive? o.k.

Well, he said that he then told his Mission President what they had done, and assured him it crossed no lines, but it was enough to 'be a sin in God's eyes'.

She was so confused, as I. The one thing they didn't do was have a relationship that crossed the line in the sexual way. I don't want this to be a debate if sex is right or wrong, or how could I know, but seriously, nothing happened.

She was wracking her brain because he spoke of the Atonement. He started the letter, 'there is one more thing between us I have to tell you'. It made Zero sense, as he made it clear he was a missionary and a girlfriend would hold him back from being Holy.

why even write this letter? From a guy perspective (guys out there), why would you even write seven months after you last letter and drone on about his confessions to the mission president. He went on about how a weight was lifted off his shoulders, and if she has not taken care of it, that yo uwould be surprised at how good confession feels.


So, after thinking about it for a day, she finally remembered the one time three (THREE) years ago that she was rubbing his legs and he got, um, a little excited. He went in the bathroom and she assumes he let it out. Ha. So, she got him excited and rubbed his freaking leg and back for an hour. There was no touching of his p enis, his butt, anything.

All I can come up with is his parents said sexual sin was next to murder and he has consumed that guilt.

His hate for us came out of nowhere, but I guess if this is what he is holding onto it makes sense. My girl and I discuss everything, and this is something we didn't even remember.

I am mostly mad because it has taken a long time to work past what he did. Mainly because he was like a family member.

She is happy, moving on with her life, and the douche nozzle has to write a letter to remind him that, 'hey, remember me. I didn't want to see you, but I will write and tell you how to repent'. I am angry tonight. I know it will pass, but how dare he. She respected his space and walked away, now he needs to leave her alone.

She wanted me to write here and get some opinions on if she should say anything or if she should write. She knows I get on here (she is not ready for it yet), and wanted opinions.

Oh, the real winner line. He writes about all that for half a page, and then says one more paragraph by saying, 'on to more joyful things ("not that the glory of repentance isn't happy")...hahaha. No really.

I am sad, more for him. He is not the same boy at all. He was full of sarcasm and laughter. Now, he is like a robot and has to interject a happy moment with an excuse of why he is not talking of the gospel.

He had so much potential and now he is going to the BYU grind and hanging out with the homeboys from his mission. He had plans to travel the world and also, he was a really cool and funny person.

This letter was so bland, weird and unlike him, it actually scared me for what they do to missionaries now.

So, I got sidetracked, but why the hell now? Why does he feel the need to write. He has no clue that she has doubted (only I know), so it is not to reactivate. He knows nothing about us in the last year. He doesn't know I have quit. He would probably recoil in horror at how awful I am now (even though nothing has changed). So yep. I guess she has to repent, and I need to repent because I want to punch him in the nose for placing himself back in her life (in a sense). He has like 8 weeks left, if that makes a difference, but holy hell, go away self righteous prick!!!

Is it really in the handbook to annoy the hell out of people when they need to forget them from their lives.

It makes no sense.

Sounds like an immature, brainwashed boy. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'd suggest one of two options.

1. Ignore him completely.

2. Write a very short letter. "You are a prick!" (or choose your favourite insult) That's all I'd say in the letter.

He is beyond help, and your daughter should waste no more time thinking about him.

BTW, it is not unusual for guys who have dumped girls to reach out after 6 months or so. They start to feel guilty and they reach out to see if the girl is still angry with them. It is intended to try and ease their guilt for acting like a selfish a-hole.
Or if a player, then they are hoping for a quick bit of memory sex. This guy sounds like the guilty type, so not a player.

Well, that's pretty weird..

It does sound like he wants to reconnect and that he's clearly all messed up in his head about boundaries, and all things culty.

I'd write back that you don't recognize this person but you have a vague memory of a great guy who had dreams and wanted to see the world. But you've moved on and it saddens you both to see what his time in service has done to make him unChristlike.

Someone should let him have it with both barrels. If not your girl, then with her permission, you. I would include in your diatribe some impossible sexual positions, some descriptive language along with undesirable character traits, and every creative insult that you can come up with including to his parentage. I would also tell him that if he ever sends a letter to your girl again, you will post his name and photo on FB or a BYU message board along with a complete description of the act for which he is repenting and a request for everyone to repost.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2015 08:37PM by summer.

That's his daughter's ex boyfriend.

The "boy" is extremely self absorbed. He felt guilty and then tossed the guilt her way. No, thank you. If he's close to returning home, he could be fishing to see if she has any interest in picking up where they left off.

Many of these guys are players who talk marriage to every girl they date. A friend of mine was dating a RM in Provo who she didn't hear from for a week, and he was engaged.

She needs to avoid him like bad cramps, not even dignify the weird rambling letter with a response of any kind. She is far better off without him.

Okay...but I still think a strongly worded, "Don't contact my daughter ever again, you miserable excuse for a human being" would be entirely appropriate.

Ignore him, burn the letter, keep moving forward.

He wrote to the wrong person.

Problems with little factories go straight to Packer.

Ha. Packer Wacker is all that came to mind.

I am proud of myself because I would have gone off like a nut case six months ago. He was treasured in our family. Now, I am annoyed more than anything. We are finally getting in a good place in our head after a really, really bad year (not just with him), and I feel a bit immature, but I want to punch him to jolt his brain.

I really wouldn't, but it just seems so harsh to dangle the carrot. I have a feeling he still thinks the world revolves around him (he was very egotistical and once upon a time, said he knew that would be his downfall in life - I guess he forgot on his mission as it cultivates egos).

I guess I am having a bad day, and my mind had worked hard on not getting into this. I had a bad habit of fighting my daughter's battles because I cared too much. I have worked hard on stepping back and letting her own her life. I only wrote her because we discussed it.

As you know, at the age they are, it is almost harder when they write. It really had no meaning because the ending was like, "I know you will do great things in life". He did use his first name instead of his 'Elder' moniker. But her heart is having a hard time remembering who he was.

I think it was a total dick move as it served no purpose in her life. Ego driven, as it had everything to do with him.

Who makes a girl feel guilty for NOT having sex or not crossing boundaries. It even said it didn't..ahhaha. He said his mission president assured him he would not look less upon him when he saw him next time. In fact he would see him as stronger. Really? Because you confessed a non sin? I am actually curious if he expounded it to more (he had a lying problem, which was the real rift in their relationship).

It is not her fault he got a boner.

It is not her fault he does his business in the bathroom.

I am truly sickened I did not see how hard we guilt children in the church. I assured my girl she had nothing to feel guilty about. Plus, now I am working my way out, looking in, it is disgusting. He has to tell an old guy that he has only known a year or so his sexual sins to be relieved and feel the weight of 'sin' off his shoulders? Do they even believe what they teach about the Atonement. Why do they need old men to tell them they are 'clean'.

Also, how sad to hold onto something that small for that long and hate someone that was truly good to you. It really does make sense now, so I guess it brought closure. Imagine if he really did have sex and touch her boobies. My good Lord, how did I not see how unhealthy this is.

You gave me a hard on (probably multiple times), I absorb that for three years, end up hating you because of 'our sins' with no explanation and now I come back when I am close to getting off (all puns maybe intended), and call you to the repentance. She is living life taking a break from the church (and is nice and 'clean' and doing lots of service). Missionaries really need meetings on how not to be self righteous assholes.

Really, it should be Missionary 101 upon exiting the mission field.

If I responded at all it would only be to say, "Hey, little boy. I thought missions were supposed bring maturity. What gives?"

I knew one guy like this on my mission. He was so pious that he could see sin in anything. And the whole reason to see sin anywhere and everywhere is just a way to feed your own piety.

Your daughter should just be damn glad she dodged that bullet. She should celebrate. Do a little dance. Have an ice cream. Can you even imagine her life if she had ended up with him?

I'm thrilled she escaped that mess and I don't even know her.

She already won.

"It is not her fault he got a boner".- sooooo refreshing to hear that spoken..


I belive that in all my heart. I am an attractive women and I do not want to hide or dress myself in frumpy clothing .


so nice to hear someone agrees with this

Could it be he was bitter that he had to break his relationship off in order to go on a mission, and decided to take her down too by implying to a church authority that she was a sinner? It’s unclear if she is an active member or not, but confessing a sin (or alluding to a sin that never even happened, really … a lie sort of) casts her in a negative light and disparages her reputation.

He may regret breaking up with her, and be taking his anger out on her now. Back in high school when boys were young and immature, there were a few boys around who treated girls like their possessions and became angry and jealous of them, even when the relationship had long since ended.

Alternately, maybe he is returning soon and is thinking he can come home and resume things with her, and this is his very confused and misguided way of saying hi, remember me … wazzup? That would make him a psycho.

From things I’ve read on here I wouldn’t be surprised if he isn’t just lashing out and trying to ruin her reputation, especially if she is a church member too. Unstable people do that sometimes when they are bitter and angry and resentful that some one else might be feeling happier than they are. She obviously is on his mind. So, in anger, he ruins her reputation and then brags to her about it, taking veiled credit for his crime. Like wanting to be the one to tell her he just outed her.

Beyond that, ignore him, both of you. Move on, he’s obviously a douche.

Maybe this old saying applies?

May those who love us, love us.
And those who don’t love us,
may god turn their hearts.
And if he doesn’t turn their hearts,
may he turn their ankles,
so we’ll know them by their limping.

This! He professed to 'be on a different path' after he went to the temple one week. Then poof. There are lots of dynamics in my girl's life that made that a really harsh way to go, BUT she is so damn strong. She has dusted herself off and is in college and doing great things.

Does she miss him (or what he was) at times? Yes.

However, his family was always pointing their fingers at us for the tiniest things, and it was exhausting. I am embarrassed to say I didn't put my foot down sooner on the behavior. I somehow thought they were better because his dad was a 2nd counselor..hahah. Oh how dumb that seems now.

They think they are better than us, because they work at the prestigious school and have talented kids. Uh, my child is talented and she is strong and kind and true to herself.

I guess I am most frustrated that I taught her wrong. I taught her that you put up with the lies and the crap and then they will go on a mission changed and a better person.

I am mad at myself, however, I have gotten us both therapy from a non LDS person and it opened my eyes. Some of the things I would say she was so confused about..hahaha. Just Mormon things that I felt guilty over. She was perplexed where the guilt was coming in. It was refreshing.

So, they thought my girl would keep him from his mission, yet she never was 'bad'. I hate the bad word, but just using it in context.

He basically said he didn't want to go, his parents were pressuring him, and I can assure you, he got pressure to break up.

I thought it was horrible at first, but as time has gone on, like some of you have said, he did her the biggest favor.

He had so many issues that were hidden, as did his family (who put on a happy face). Addictions. lies, egos. My instincts told me to have her run and I didn't. I can't change that now, but that gives me more reason to want to call him out for his behavior.

The ways they treated us were FAR worse than rubbing someone's legs. Condemning us for keeping their boy off his mission or for making him accept people more. Oh the horrors.

So, they got what they wanted:

1. He went on a mission.
2. He is going to BYU (for three years in high school he was adamant he didn't want to go there. He thought they were all clones).
3. He will most likely marry quick and have a succession of kids.


Are they happy now? I don't know. I would like to know what goes on in the minds of TBM parents when they got all THEY wanted for their kids. Look into their eyes. Are they really happy?

Do they even care he lost someone special?

He adored her when it was good and he saw the dysfunction of conformity.

Now, he is one of them.

So sad. So much life and talented wasted. So much potential if he was outside the realm of BYU. He thinks he will be top dog there. He doesn't really everyone there dances, sings, acts, etc. etc. etc. Everyone is an RM.

I really think he will be in for a rude awakening, as the special badge of missionary will be gone.

Maybe I'm wrong. I don't have insight into what it feels like to come home and then the fanfare dies down.

Interesting study it would be.

By the way, you guys are so amazing.

I only found this place this year, and just by having you comment, it brought my blood pressure down about the situation.

I needed to vent and get some healthy feedback.

Just know how much I appreciate you all.

Thank You!!!

It sounds like your daughter has a good parent in you. Good you got some counselling, too. Even in the non mormon world, early dating is full of tough goes and hiccups.

Sounds like you're there for your daughter, and that will serve her well. I'm sure she'll pull through, and I hope she does well and sometime finds the right guy for her, if that's what she wants when the time comes. She sounds like a good person. Don't let the snobby people get you down, they exist everywhere.

I'm glad to see you took avail of this board to talk it out. It can really help sometimes, we all know that. I wish you and your daughter all the best. Give her a big hug (not from me, from you.) Cheers.

torturednevermo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's unclear if she is an active member or not, but
> confessing a sin (or alluding to a sin that never
> even happened, really … a lie sort of) casts her
> in a negative light and disparages her reputation.

They shared an oddly, very superficial "intimate" moment. I think this young man has exaggerated and misconstrued it into something it wasn't. The sexual naivete of young Mormons can explain a lot, but this is something else.
>
> Alternately, maybe he is returning soon and is
> thinking he can come home and resume things with
> her, and this is his very confused and misguided
> way of saying hi, remember me … wazzup? That
> would make him a psycho.

Very immature and sometimes disturbed men are prone to this. They latch on to any form of contact --even rejection!--as a substitute for a relationship, hoping irrationally that this little foothold will open the door to more contact and a real relationship. This guy may be quietly obsessing about your daughter.
>
Unstable people do that
> sometimes when they are bitter and angry and
> resentful that some one else might be feeling
> happier than they are. She obviously is on his
> mind. So, in anger, he ruins her reputation and
> then brags to her about it, taking veiled credit
> for his crime.

What you're describing is a low-level, modified form of domestic abuse. The abuser seeks to control and possess the object of his perverse "love;" failing that, he wants to ruin her chances for happiness with somebody else, so that "nobody else gets her."
>
> Beyond that, ignore him, both of you. Move on,
> he’s obviously a douche.
>
> May those who love us, love us.
> And those who don’t love us,
> may god turn their hearts.
> And if he doesn’t turn their hearts,
> may he turn their ankles,
> so we’ll know them by their limping.

Very, very appropriate. Let this young man go his way, and hope for the best for him, but don't expect too much. Your daughter has her own life and sensibilities, and will learn (with a bit of your guidance, I'm sure) that "Living well is the best revenge." But just to be safe, he should be kept at a distance.

Let me start by saying that what he did was ridiculous and hurtful.
That said...you have no idea the brainwashing that is done to missionaries. You're stripped of your identity, and made into just another in thousands of "Elders." You're stuck with a companion you can't get away from, who more likely than not is a bigger jerk than you are, and who will report you to the "leaders" for the tiniest infraction. You "work" 14-16 hours a day, usually with nothing whatsoever to show for it -- and then even though having nothing to show for it IS the norm, you're chastised for not producing results because you're not working hard enough or are "unworthy." You have no privacy, no time to yourself, no connection (physical or emotional) with other people (especially the opposite sex)...

It seriously messes with your head. It makes you do things you wouldn't normally do, like "confess" to something that's not a "sin" at all, and blaming the girl you were with for it actually being all her fault, because she "excited" you.

I'm *not* excusing this idiot's letter. Just offering a possible explanation for it.

I did a couple of similar things on my mission. Not quite the same, but (for example) a girl who had been a friend only for a long time had been writing me, and I loved getting the letters with stories from home and a connection to a real person (and a girl at that) in them...but after a dressing down of being told there must be something making us "not worthy" because we weren't baptizing, I wrote and told her that her letters were distracting me from being fully committed to the work, and she shouldn't write any more. Yes, I was that brainwashed.

I did apologize later, and explain, and fortunately she understood (when I got home). But it was stupid, just like this guy's letter.

I would ignore it. :)

Thank you for your insight. I like to hear stories from those who have been on 'the inside of the missionary life'. It helps make more sense, as to me it is beyond bizarre.

And tell him not to contact her again. Their relationship is over and he should not try to interject himself into her life.

She should tell him that what he wrote in his letter was highly inappropriate and that she didn't know what he was even talking about. Regardless of whatever sin he committed on his own, or imagined with her, it was extremely presumptuous to try to lay guilt at her feet and try and manage her spiritual welfare. She should tell him that she's not going to discuss it further. I think she should also tell him that this strange letter was a strong confirmation that it was wise to end their relationship, and that she does not plan to rekindle it when he returns.

This guy sounds like a guy to avoid. She probably should NOT tell him that she was wracking her brain trying to figure out what he was talking about, because if he's trying to do a mind-f*** on her, that would tell him that he was successful.

I'm glad you posted this thread and shared your reactions to the missionary's letter. I think you were given some great advice, and I found the posts for me also interesting and enlightening.

Man, do I wish I had heard honest missionarys' glimpses of missions like ificouldhietokolob shared. Thanks, ificuldhietokolob for your vivid, gut-wrenching words. I have three children who went on missions, two grandchildren, and one grandchild doing her indoctrinated duty right now. Your words, such as "stripped of your identity" forcefully hit me of what a missionary can feel, and I think they will help me in my relationships with RFM's and missionaries.

I continually post on this site of my immense, intense feelings that the cult's indoctrinating children to believe that they need to serve missions at an age when they should be serving themselves in the joys and experiences of growing-up is EMOTIONAL ABUSE OF CHILDREN. This is further proof in that direction IMO.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2015 09:52PM by presleynfactsrock.

I would allow for the possibility that, somewhere down the road, he may shake off his missionary programming and revert back to the guy you all liked.

But even then, I would tread with great caution because of his family. Should you find yourself in the situation where the above happens and your daughter is drawn to him again, some candid conversations would need to happen.

Personally, my advice is to put this guy in the rearview mirror.

I'd completely ignore him.

This guy is worse than a douche bag.

He's an enema bag.

douche nozzle? No, I don't think so...he's definitely a douche rocket.

Another instance of "blaming the victim". She need not feel any responsibility for his guilt, she is better off without him. Good for you for being supportive of her. She has nothing to repent for. Me to her: You go girl! Success is the best revenge. Be happy and successful and leave him in the dust!

Your daughter has dodged a lifetime of mormon misery via her possible future inlaws and husband.

Take a moment to breathe the fresh air and have joy in the thought. When you know better you do better.

It's about control. And, so typically Mormon, it's about cranking up his imagination and guilt, then blaming the female for things he did, thoughts he had. Don't let your daughter share in the damage he is doing to himself. If he is writing pen on paper letters, don't open them, but return them to sender. If it's E-mail, then block it. You, too, could get involved with a short and terse message that releases her from any part in it and turns it back over to him.

As a more evil person myself, I might feel inclined to write the MP and say that all is well, that your daughter "had the baby, and is keeping it." Then the MP would be all, like, "WTF??" Some time in the future you could write and apologize and say that it was all a big mistake, and that you were speaking as a man.

He's simply trying to release his depression by latching back on to something from in the past.

I'd suggest she reply "Thanks for your letter, my fiancé is looking forward to meeting you when you get off your mission."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2015 07:44AM by pettigrew.

I am not at all trying to defend the guy, but it is really sad what the church does to these missionary kids. Two years of emotional abuse. Your self-worth is attached to your "success" as a missionary, and you come to believe that it is your fault if people aren't getting baptized.

It is frightening how isolated missionaries are from society. They know next to nothing about current events. Everything is about the church. Missionaries come home and feel completely lost because they world is not the same as it was when they left and they have to catch up.

So this jerk has become sarcastic, bitter, and twisted? Not at all surprised.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2015 08:06AM by jdawg333.

Just have her send a short, one line reply:

"There is something wrong with you, don't contact me again".

My suggestion:

She should write back a terse letter:

"I can see from your letter that you have changed. For the worse. You used to be someone I liked. No more. I am grateful that you are no longer a part of my life. Stay away from me."

"Sweet daughter. Behold the insanity of Mormonism" as you drop the letter in the trash.

Never look back.

That falls under the category of ID 10 T.

I'd recommend her writing a great letter. Call him the douche nozzle he is. Tell him how much he hurt all of you. Tell him how much you liked him. How much you miss who he was and who he was to all of you. How eyes sparkled at his mere mention. How hurtful this letter was - opening old wounds.

Then invite friends over. Get a bit tipsy. Grill hot dogs over an open flame - barbeque grill, fire pit, bonfire. Make smores!

Then, before the fire goes out, throw the letter in. He doesn't deserve to see those words.

Then, the next day, call him yourself. Early. Wake him up. Wake his roommate.

Tell him to lose her name, number and address. Any further contact will be considered harrassment and you'll call the cops, jackass.