Whether or not an individual stays in the church depends on the interplay of knowledge, emotional investment, and ability to rationalize.

Agree? Disagree? Comments?

I think, of all three things mentioned, emotional investment and emotional payback is the greatest reason people stay in the church. Because the gospel doesn't seem to mean a thing to them. It's entirely fungible. And rationalizations spring from the emotional investment/payback, not the other way around.

Emotional payback is a good way to put it. From my experience, people stay if they're getting something out of it. If the church is their primary source of friendship, social interaction, etc..., they often refuse to look at "anti" material. If they do learn the truth, they might think, "The church does so much good, has helped me, etc... How could it be founded on lies?", and their study stops there. They just ignore it.

If members aren't getting anything out of their membership, learning the truth will often lead to deconversion overnight. I was a tithe-paying, temple attending, never-turned-down-a-calling type of member just last year. At the same time, church attendance was beyond boring and was doing nothing for me. As a kid, church was a place to see friends, goof-off, etc... As an adult, that kind of friendship was gone, you're focusing all your energy on keeping kids quiet, you realize that the lessons are stupid and they aren't helping you to become a better person (often quite the opposite), etc... This allows doubt to creep in, and once you learn a bit of truth, the floodgates open.

That's why I'm kind of pleased that the lessons are still the dumbed down, regurgitated lessons of yesteryear and that the greedy mothership takes all the money leaving nothing for budgets. The more they take, the more they ask, the less they give does cause some to reevaluate the relationship and ask themselves "Am I better off with the church or without it?" When the church itself chokes off the emotional payback is when the rationalizations get harder and harder.

Once that happens, then and only then, to they cast an eye towards the doctrine, the history, the lies, the expectations, etc., etc.

"Emotional payback" works for me - I got something out of church, but I always felt a bit of an outsider.

But knowledge must play some role, since isn't knowledge usually the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back?

If it all boils down to emotional payback and knowledge, then would it be fair to say that the difference between those who leave and those who stay when learning unflattering knowledge about the church is the amount of emotional payback they had been getting from church?

Why do the billions of people who lived on the earth or are living on the earth stay with their chosen religious belief systems? Or change their mind?

The geography of our birth plays a huge role in our belief systems,including the religion we are taught in the home.
Religion is not just a belief, it's a social system with traditional ties that are traditional that appeals to the needs of all human beings. Religion is most often a generational belief system, sometimes going back many, many generations.

Members stay in the LDS Church for many reasons: it's where they place their faith that comprises their World View.
It's the same for anyone in any other religion.
It's generally how a child is taught, and how they receive positive reinforcement throughout their life from their family and friends.It is where they find value.

It appears that generations of believers of some of the oldest religions known to man are perpetuated by each family continuing their long held traditions, rituals, music, writings that are held in high esteem. Each religious group has it's own very unique and distinct characteristics that comprise their generational culture.

Mormons stay in their church because they believe by faith there is divine truth that gives them a World View that is appealing and acceptable.
Not unlike any other religion that is taught in the home from birth that cements their cultural rituals around major points in their lives: birth, coming of age, marriage, death. Each one has it's specific rituals that are often ancient in some manner.

The most important part of any religion is faith in it's claims. That faith is accepted and rewarded by participation from generation to generation. It becomes the place we feel safe, it's home, love.

Religions don't survive because they can be proved in a court of law, for instance, or are historically factual.
They survive because they are believed by faith. They survive because they are based in supernatural, metaphysical, visionary claims.

Those that want their religion to be factually true, in every sense, will be disappointed. And, that often results in a decision to try something else, or leave religions all together. That result is generally because the core and pattern of religions in general is predominately the same: generational, often patriarchal, ritualistic, with a strong culture with specific in-house traditions which no longer appeal to them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2014 01:04PM by SusieQ#1.

There are lots of reasons, but lately I've noticed one that I hadn't really thought of before.

It's the, "If this isn't the true church then which one is" reason. Mormons are continually taught that one true church actually exists. For some, it might be difficult to break free of that teaching even when they see the problems with the church. If someone maintains a belief in God, they may not know where to go if they leave the LDS church. They might just stay simply because other denominations have their problems as well and may not seem any more true.

"If it all boils down to emotional payback and knowledge, then would it be fair to say that the difference between those who leave and those who stay when learning unflattering knowledge about the church is the amount of emotional payback they had been getting from church?"

I'd say so. The members that get up in F&T meeting bawling and talking about how the "gospel" brings them so much joy, they couldn't imagine life without the peace it brings, etc... are shallow thinkers that probably aren't ready to give the truth a second thought.

Those that already see the doctrine as odd, don't get anything out of the BoM, recognize the lack of any depth in the "prophet's" words, don't get anything out of shallow church friendships, etc... are likely to dig deeper and jump ship.

Consider a person's profession as well. I had a bishop who was also a dentist. A lot of his business came from the ward he was in charge of. If he got excommunicated or resigned, then he'd lose a lot of that business. A person in that situation might think that it's better to pretend in oder to keep his job.

^^^this. Also good place to be if you are into Amwayesque schemes

My parents could watch Monson sacrifice a baby by biting its head off at general conference and they would say "but the gospel is true."

I really thot the bom was true (warm fuzzy feelings and all), so where else do i go?

When i found evidence of the falseness of the bom ( dna tests) then i left.

I was already half way out the door anyway, just waiting for my son to grow up so i could go pretty much inactive. Just active enuf for my dh not to be made to feel 'less than' b/c of his inactive wife.

We both left instead, but our son beat us out the door. He simply announced one day he wasn't going back there. He was 16 or 17.

This organization uses coercive practices to recruit and retain members. It's a mental funnel. Much of what they do is about the removal of freedom of mind.

because they are Stupid. The benefit of anything is weighed against the cost. The actual benefits of MORmONISM for the common member = big payoff in the next life / and NOTHING in this life.
Cost = Big time expense. only a real MORmON is going to roll with this deal!

When I was twelve, we lived in a shabby little burg called Pottstown, PA. There we had a neighbor who raised rabbits in tiny hutches and sold them to a commercial laboratory for testing. The rabbits were confined in chicken wire cells too narrow for them to even turn around in. I had once had a pet rabbit until my father accidentally killed it with ant poison, so I had feelings for the poor, ill-fated bunnies.

One day, like a foolish liberator, I opened all the doors of the rabbit cages. The rabbits just sat there; none made a dash for freedom. They remained in their enclosures no matter what. You really can lead a horse to water.

His parents still live there.

Apparently, rabbits are about as smart as Mormons.

Was your family still there in the late 70's? That's where my parents joined TSCC.

There was no local chapel in Pottstown at the time, so my father, drawing from the deep well of his patriarchal wisdom, decided to start a branch. To fund the branch, he made my brothers and me labor on Saturdays. We did magazine recycling drives and cleaned up trash.

Dad was the assistant superintendent of the local schools, and I think he may have used his position to award himself a maintenance contract. Instead of attending the Friday night games with his peers, we ate their leftover popcorn and waded through the detritus of their candy wrappers and drink cups under the bleachers the morning after. We had to bag and dispose of their litter. Our Saturdays were ruined by labor, our Sundays by interminable church meetings in a rental building sans air conditioning, and our weekdays by confinement in classrooms with mean redneck larvae. I was the only Mormon kid in my junior high and quite the punching bag. Every night I prayed to God to kill me.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2014 07:10PM by donbagley.

That's terrible, some people really are idiots.

Jello salad and the chance to feel totally 'special'.

You got me...
I figure that people who remain in the CULT don't want (YES DON'T WANT) a life. I call it as I see it.

It's like they feel "This is what we do, this is who we are. We are special." Being part of something with lots of identity and in-group cohesiveness is very habit forming. You ultimately don't even have to have deep beliefs. The group, not belief, begins to be the attraction. The leaders know this, and reinforce it by an unending list of tasks and involvement of time and money, which act as the cement.

Yep. Like I've long asserted, the doctrine doesn't matter. The "gospel" doesn't matter. It's all fungible. What matters is the group.

Well one thing it seems to offer is a "wholesome" environment. That does become a bit of a security blanket of comfort. Even though I've been mentally out for a few years now, sometimes I have moments of, well, culture shock I guess, that make me want to instinctively run back to the church. I hate the church... and I get that the wholesomeness is mostly just a façade, and life has become richer without it..... but that desire to just go back to the squeaky clean goodness still hits me once in a while...

I think that, until tscc pi**es you off somehow or something happens that helps you see the injustices, until then none would be interesten in knowing the truth or leave. You don't find out until you want to find out.

Ask the Church of Jesus Christ

Possible Reason 1: The hearts and minds of the spouse, children and other family members are being held hostage by TSCC. If the thinking and mentally free member leaves, the other's will disown them.

Possible Reason 2: Employed with the TSCC for too long to leave.

Possible Reason 3: If they admit to themselves it is false, they will no longer be as special as they have been told.

Lots more possible reasons. Too bad a survey can't be done to determine what message they need to receive to learn if the root is rotten then the whole thing is rotten.