I have a close friend living in California. He has four children, all of whom are TBMs attending BYU. His TBM wife is a convert who joined the church in her teen for cultural reasons. She sort of knew that the church was not what it claimed to but she was drawn to it simply because of it emphasizes family and can provide safety net for her future family.Then she met her future husband and married him after both served their mission.

Both had remained active in the church until I let them know about my leaving the church several years ago. Since then he has been struggling and wanting to get out. However, his DW, who openly acknowledge to us that the church is not what it claims to be, vehemently opposes him leaving the church. Before their children went to college, she promised to him that he can do whatever he wants to do with the church when the youngest went to college.

Now, when their children are in college, she changes her mind and tells him to continue to stay in church. She says that his family owes TSCC a great deal for their children enjoying the church program and growing up "decent" people, and she doesn't want his reconversion to destroy their children's reputation.

So every Sunday he is dragged to attend three hours of Sunday service Sunday. He doesn't have any church calling and refuses to take any calling. He sits at the back of the chapel during the sacrament spending his time with his smart phone. The only break he can get from TSCC each year is two general conferences and two stake conferences when his absence is not noticed by members of their ward.

If you were me, what kind of advice would you like to give him?

Get a backbone!
Get the fuck out of the situation!
Let his DW get a job and work for a living. She will change her tune. You didn't mention if she has a job or not, but often people who take this forceful attitude think they can boss everyone around when if fact, they can't.

Have him tell DW that since she is obsessed with the CULT, she can have it and she can pay for it including the FOUR kids tuition to a useless racist college.

Something tells me that she will accept him leaving the CULT and she can stay.
He should get the kids out of the CULT of RACISTS U though.

I am assuming that he asked for your advice which is why you are asking here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2014 04:07PM by verilyverily.

I wouldn't bother to advise this person unless they're asking you a specific question. Otherwise, you're butting into their marriage.

Your friend, if he wants to cut a new deal with his spouse should do exactly that. He's a husband, not a child.

He's a grown adult, my only advice is act like one, only he can decide what he wants to do with his life.

I would tell the wife that to promote a church that is not what it says it is makes her an accessory to fraud as she has tricked her own children into buying into something she knows is not true.

What kind of mother does that?

I will never understand how someone who knows Mormonism is a cult can keep their own children imprisoned in it.

Those BYU kids will marry Mormons in the temple, and be trapped for life, on the same threat of possible divorce if they discover the fraud and leave. These parents both don't seem to care that they are perpetuating the fraud from one generation to the next.

I didn't have much "backbone," but when the Mormon leaders kicked and shoved my children, trespassed into our home and dragged them to meetings, I became assertive, like any mother in nature. When I discovered the lies and the made-up threats, it was a no-brainer. I broke the cycle of abuse, begun by our polygamous Mormon ancestors. The ancestors were the "apostates" when they left their original religion to join their neighbor's scam sex-cult. I'm proud of rescuing my children.

What "reputation" do this couple's children have? Are they good followers? Slaves to a cult? My children and I all resigned from the Mormon church, and they all graduated from the U of Utah, and they always had an excellent reputation. They are honest, loving, law-abiding, polite, genuine, hard-working, true to themselves. They married good people, and are happy. Yes, the Mormons gossiped about them, and tried to slander them, but my kids had non-Mormon friends, that they still have. One has a successful business with two friends as partners. They married friends, and have good marriages that aren't in danger crumbling under the pressure of TSCC. They keep their promises, because their word is golden.

Your friends are wrong to think that the Mormon church helps to create good families and raise superior children. Quite the opposite.

This man needs to think more of his children. He isn't hiding from anyone, in the back, fiddling with his electronic toy. He is already marginalized, because he doesn't have a prestigious calling. His children see a man with little integrity, who is afraid of the truth, and afraid of the cult. Half in and half out. In limbo. They probably don't respect him, except that he is paying their tuitions. Believe it or not, this can be more stressful than leaving, and can ruin your health.

You are a good friend. There's little you can do. Maybe you can send them the New York Times headline article about the Mormon essays.

forestpal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I will never understand how someone who knows
> Mormonism is a cult can keep their own children
> imprisoned in it.


Me either.

Some claim that it's a great place to raise kids.
I presume those types are looking at the words of wisdom as the big ticket draw.

I don't understand how countless methods of indoctrination into countless lies is an okay environment,just as long as they have a group who doesn't smoke, drink or have sex before marriage.

Some parents are LAZY!
They could teach their kids the value of making health choices, moderation, good social manners etc.
They could teach their kids the value of associating with friends who practise healthier choices.
They don't have to let the cult teach a facade, whereupon peeling back the facade one finds maggots feeding on lies.
(maggots metaphor for GA's)

His wife isn't holding a gun to his head. He needs to talk to her and come up with a livable compromise. She can attend church if she chooses and he can do what he chooses. Or some other workable plan they can both enjoy.

You know all that stuff they taught about how hard it is to stand up for what's right. Well guess what, that one of the few things they got right. There's no easy way,it takes something often called integrity, fist you ow it to yourself to be honest, then to you wife and kids. Also guaranteed the kids know so show some real respect first to yourself then you family and yes even the church and be what your creator made you to be.

I think the best thing you could do would to give him information straight off lds.org so his wife can't say they are "anti mormon".

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1180178 For full list.

Get the guest bedroom cleaned up. He's gonna need a place to sleep after his wife kicks him out :-(

She is free to leave but she can not put him out of his own home and he would be crazy to go.

I would encourage him to take his wife away for an occasional weekend -- maybe once a month or so, if he can afford it.

I will say something that will likely be unpopular. It sounds to me that the wife would be embarrassed in front of her friends if he didn't show up. How about negotiating a bit of a break and agreeing to just go to part of the block and not all of it. What about just going to sacrament for example?

If she doesn't believe in the Church, it doesn't matter how much data he gives her, its the social construct he's fighting against, the image of the perfect family in her mind.

Bingo.

;o)

I second negotiation.

...once I began learning the true history of Mormonism, I couldn't continue to sit in those Sunday School and priesthood meetings and listen to the fairy-tale version of church history. It would have been like being forced to sit for three hours a week listening to people aver that Santa Claus is really real, and then have to pay 10% of my income for life for the privilege of sitting there and being lied to.

Your friend's in a tough spot if he has four kids at BYU. The only advice I can give you for him is that he should tell his wife that his sense of personal integrity won't allow him to continue pretending that the church is true, and go along with it and not say anything.

"She says that his family owes TSCC a great deal for their children enjoying the church program and growing up "decent" people, and she doesn't want his reconversion to destroy their children's reputation."

The LDS church doesn't hold the franchise on producing decent people. Good heavens, 99% of Americans aren't Mormon, but the vast majority of them are decent, hardworking, law-abiding citizens. Sounds to me like his wife should get out more.

If the roles were reversed, we would be talking about the husband being abusive. In this case of an abusive wife, we talk about the husband needing to get a spine.

Is there ever a case of a wife being abusive, or is that against exmo doctrine?