Hi, I am hoping for a bit of advice really. Im in England and I have been having missionaries round for about a month and will be attending church for the first time tomorrow. Since meeting them I have really been taken a back how friendly and kind they are. They just seem so happy and positive I find it amazing. After various parts they have said, it kind of makes sense (although I still have bits I can't get my head round).. Mmy husband is a lot more skeptical than me but is supportive all the same.
What I am concerned about is whether im being sold too. Just to add a bit of understanding so you can maybe answer me better ill add a brief of my background. Im mid 20's,my childhood was a bit of a sad one with extremely violent parents, assulted in other ways and was homeless at 14. Since then I worked hard and bought my own house at 18 and own my own business as well as being a mum. consider myself to be really caring and go above and beyond to help anyone. Helping people has made me rather sad as of late as you start to notice that kind people are a minority and anyone I help would never return the favour for myself or anyone else. This is why when a bunch of what I have perceive as the friendliest people its brought me a lot of joy. Im scared that ic they are lying, it proves that very few people care without a hidden agenda.
I hope this makes sense to someone, as I really need the help.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2014 03:57PM by gibdiddygib.

" Im scared that ic they are lying"

i doubt it - most missionaries are sincere

but that doesn't mean they themselves haven't been lied to and therefore are telling you lies...

just something to keep in mind

Stay as far away from them as possible unless you want your life to be over. Just stay away.

Before you join please read all these essays, the church has quietly put them out over the last year.

http://mormonessays.com

Also I would suggest googling the CES letter and reading that.

If you are going to join a church because the people seem nice you should be sure you fully understand the history of the religion. I will not deny that there are some really nice mormons but to me that isn't enough. Remember when you join you will be required to give 10% of your income to them, you will be burdened with hours of meetings weekly, not just on Sundays. If you decide to go through the temple they will tell you what underwear to wear and they tell you what you can eat and drink. That is just a little too much control of my life to give over to someone else.

Just make sure you fully understand what you are getting into.

'If you are going to join a church because the people seem nice..."

roslyn is making a very good point - if you think that your life will somehow magically become all unicorns and rainbows if you convert you need to dig a little deeper...

consider that your only contact with mormonism to date has been the missionaries and they live in a bubble - they have every moment of their lives scripted for them and don't have any of the usual adult issues to deal with during a mission - usually they weren't like that before their missions and they will cease acting like that pretty soon after

in other words, you will not become like the missionaries because you never will be a missionary

First, I'm very sorry for the difficult upbringing you had.
When I was a Mormon missionary, I was specifically taught to seek out people who were going through "transitions" (which included recovering from trauma or other difficulties), because such people are supposed to be easier to influence.

Second, the LDS Church asks people to pay 10% of their incomes to the church for the rest of their lives. This is ample reason for the church to work very hard to bring in converts.

Third, before you commit to paying 10% of your income to the church for the rest of your life, you should check whether the church is being honest about what it really is and where it came from. To evaluate whether the church is being honest about what it is, I recommend this quick summary, which thousands of people have found helpful: http://cesletter.com/.

The decision is yours, and I recommend you follow the evidence and good reason available to you. Good luck!

"They just seem so happy and positive I find it amazing."

Think of it this way: you won't find many unhappy and negative car salesmen.

"Yeah, this is the new Ford, it's OK I guess. If you want to buy it, that's fine with me, but, you know...whatever....it's just a bloody car."

As my dad would always say, "don't buy anything from a door to door salesman, if you wanted it or needed it you would go out and get it." The Mormon missionary program is essentially a door to door sales program. If people wanted what the Mormons were selling they would seek it out. Go out and shop lifestyles, seek out what you actually need not what they are selling.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2014 04:09PM by NNT.

LDS is not a church that you join in any sense of the word. It is a cult that you give your life over to. It's easy enough to get into, but hard to get out of.

Once you join, you will be encouraged to get your children in and your husband full force. Any holding back on their part and you will be encouraged to divorce.

Once you join, you will be encouraged to go to the temple. This means a full 10% of your pre-tax income for at least a year. You will be required to swear your full allegence to the church and will be stripped of your normal underclothing and have to wear the approved, church made and purchased underclothing that look like they were designed two centuries ago.

Once you join, you will be encouraged to work for the church group, via a "calling." This will take time away from your family and will likely cost you money. There will be several other tasks that you will have to provide to the congregation in addition to the "calling." You will also be required to clean the church and it's bathrooms on an ongoing basis.

Thank you, I really appreciate your answers and advice. I think I have just been caught off guard at a vulnerable point. I've never seeked a religion before as I have always felt that just being good and not hurting others was enough. It sounds very daft, but I think I just needed the reality saying back to me.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to find a loving community, I get the draw but mormonism is more of a cult than a church community, it takes over your entire life. If you want a church community you need to go to the church and see how you fit. But I would stay far, far away from the mormons.

Just being good is enough. You are right about that. It sounds like you've already made a lot of great choices and living a good life. You don't need this cult to continue living well.

Wow, thank you so much for your advice. Im so grateful to get a more balanced view of the religion.

If you want to find a friendly supportive religion, go out on your own visiting churches and studying their material.

These guys are setups to fool you and will not be around once they get you into their cult. Then it will be too late to easily walk away. Do it now before you're in more deeply.

Most missionaries are nice, friendly kids. They are probably feeding you misinformation about the church, however. Not because they're lying, but because most Mormons are oblivious to the true workings of the LDS church.

If you decide to join the church, I would suggest that you do it with your eyes wide open. Study everything about the church that you can get your hands on. LDS doctrine and history is bizarre and disturbing. Missionaries will often tell you that everything negative that you read about the church is a lie. That's not true. The church has earned its bad reputation.

Missionaries want your decision to join the church to be an emotional one. They'll want you to commit to baptism very quickly. Don't feel pressured. Take your time to think things through and study, study, study. The more you know about the church, the less likely your decision will be based on your emotions.

Good luck.

Many of us who have left the Church, did so because we were upset by all of the information which was withheld from us, by them.

You have the advantage, in this internet age, of going into it with your eyes wide-open. There is so much information out there, so that you can discover the things that their salesmen won't tell you. And make no mistake about it. They are indeed salesmen and they are trained as such. They'll call it 'milk before meat.' The problem is that they never do get to the meatier issues.

If you're going to hand over 10% of your gross income, plus other offerings, then you have every right to know exactly what you're getting into. Their pleas of, "If you want to know about the Church, only ever ask a Mormon about it," should raise a big red flag.

I wish you luck in your search and on your journey. I hope you find the answers that will help you make the best decision for your life.

MormonThink.com is a good place to read about mormonism.

There are lots of great people in the church. But that doesn't mean that the church is true or that the doctrine is even close to being true.

It's kind of like joining a group with a sincere belief in Santa Clause. And, in this case Santa Clause wants 10% of your gross income, and your obedience for life.

I've heard that the church is appealing to people who've had bad childhoods. I joined 40 years ago when I was in my early 20's. I had an alcoholic mother, and the church offered me stability and hope.

I would suggest visiting sites such as mormonthink.com for fairly balanced information.

Here are some of the beliefs you would be embracing in joining the church:

10% tithing, mandatory if you want to go to the temple.

Temple, that is supposed to be based on OT temple, but really not.

Priesthood that is supposed to be biblically based, but is not.

Temple ordinances that up till 1990 included signs of you taking your own life. Sorry, it's true. I kept wondering how Jesus could be in charge of something like this.

Belief that God was once a man.

Belief that your husband can become a God, and that you will be a godess, and that you two will have billions of spirit babies. AND that he will have many wives. Carefully read D&C 132.

I couldn't do it anymore, after being faithful for decades. I do believe that there's more to life than what we see though, and encourage you to seek out a spiritual path of some sort.

Best of luck.

Welcome UK friend! Like many of the posters here, I too joined Mormonism when I was 18. I grew up in Los Angeles and needed guidance and help in dealing with a very difficult family situation. At 18, I felt Mormonism held all the answers.

I have several degrees from Brigham Young University, was married in the Salt Lake Temple, and have served in three bishoprics. Currently, I have a son on an LDS mission in the US and my children have been married in the LDS temple.

I'm going to take a different approach than some on this Board. First, I'm going to assume that you are/have seen some of the historical, ethical problems associated with Mormonism. Perhaps you will also see some of the family problems and hurt associated with joining/living in/leaving the church.

What I suggest is that the missionaries are young folks who are teaching a message that they have been taught to believe in. They have not really been challenged by difficult life situations. So, I'm inclined to say that they're probably sincere in what they're teaching you.

So, here's my advise—The missionaries will probably (if not already) challenge you to be baptized. That is what they're instructed to do and they have to report the number of times they challenge folks to be baptized and the number that actually are dunked.

If Mormonism is true now, it will be true in a year or two. Take your time. Investigate, read carefully what others are saying and then ask questions. If after a thorough investigation, you feel that Mormonism is correct for you, blessings! I hope you can be the very best latter-day saint. It will, however, be difficult as the church will demand everything of you.

The final "covenant" one makes in the LDS temple is to "give everything you have or ever will have to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for the establishment of Zion." Please note that you're not covenanting with God or Christ, but with the church. I'd ask the missionaries about this covenant, they will probably look shocked and say they can't really comment.

So, please post here, ask questions, and take your time with your decision. At 18 I didn't know the ramifications of my decision to become LDS.

I have rejoined the Protestant faith of my upbringing and regularly attend church out of joy and love for Christ—not for an organization.

BYU Boner.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2014 04:42PM by byuboner.

This is an excellent post!! No need to rush in (but many reasons to run...). My youngest brother was sucked in as a teen, because home life wasn't great, and he was the last one there to deal with it alone. A cult of "friendly" people probably seemed nice by comparison. By his senior year he had moved into his Mormon girlfriend's home, which crushed our mother (so, they are all about families, unless they can only get part of the family--then TSCC is more important than a family).

The OP is wise to be asking questions. Just know that the missionaries are not revealing the real church to you, partly by design ("milk before meat") and partly because they don't know the whole truth themselves.

People have listed many good resources above. I'll just add this thought regarding the official church essays that have been recently posted. They acknowledge in part the truth of what many people have asserted over the years about Mormanism. For example, they acknowledge Joseph Smith's polygamy (he denied practicing it in his lifetime); I have personally been assaulted (punched in the face) for asserting it. Others have been excommunicated for it. Now the church admits it (in part). There's even a video online now of a former presidential candidate joking about Joseph Smith's polygamy. My point is that the entirety of these assertions against the church is true, not just the parts they admit to (which are freaky enough). Previously, they tried to deny the entirety of these claims with the same wish-washy "logic" they now use to try to diminish the parts they don't admit to. And they only admit some of these things at all because in modern times the internet has made this information readily and credibly available to anyone who seeks it. They can't reasonably deny it anymore--like they have in the past--so they seek to diminish it.

Mormonism is a train wreck of double-talk, double-think and double-binds. Mormon "theology" has been used to justify polygamy, pedophilia, theft, murder and war, among other things.

I'm assuming the OP has doubts, so I'd encourage her to run!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2014 06:39PM by Susan I/S.

I should note that I joined the Church when I was 17, after taking a year and a half to make that decision. But I was bullied daily in school, was very shy, and the Mormon kids didn't bully me.

It was the vulnerable being pulled in towards the nice people again.

In the end, it didn't balance out all of the problems with the Church though and my own sense of honesty and integrity wouldn't allow me to stay anymore.

If you join the Mormon church after having been fairly warned, you'll have no one to blame but yourself for the shit storm that will tear through your life like a Kansas tornado.

By the way, I got my share of violent abuse and deprivation growing up in a Mormon home.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2014 04:44PM by donbagley.

First of all, congratulations on having enough sense to get third party information before jumping into the lds pool. You are obviously an intelligent person, and the lds church would benefit from your membership.

I would recommend that you spend some time on mormonthink.com - they do a pretty good job presenting information in a balanced manner. You might also spend some time in the biography section of this (RfM) site. It is much easier to join the lds church than to leave it, especially once they get a hold of your children.

When I was a missionary, I was very sincere in my desire to help people by bringing them the gospel of Jesus Christ. Unfortunately, I was also very ignorant of many aspects of lds history and inadvertently misled people. The missionaries you are meeting with are probably good people who are sincere, but they are probably ignorant about the church.

Best of luck to you and your family, and I hope that you will find joy in the decision you make regarding the lds church.

LDS for 32 years. Please educate yourself. It seems wonderful because these missionaries are totally sold by those they (and I) trusted too. The truth is out there.

http://cesletter.com/Letter-to-a-CES-Director.pdf

Move to Australia, where the spirit of Joseph Smith can enter your bosom and bring good feelings to yourself and your hamster.

. Contact the Australian Embassy upon your arrival. Tell them you have a burning in your bosom the prophet and orator.

When you're a kid, which all the missionaries you've met are, being a mormon is not all that big a deal. Kids need direction and the mormon church gives it to them. Most of it is good. The mission is pretty much their transition from being a mormon for fun to being a mormon to make money for the Corporation.

If you want a bit of hilarity, ask the elders or sisters who being so wonderful to you, what the church's stand on 'wanking' is... Make sure your husband is there when you ask them. Ask them how often they get harangued about wanking, ask them why they've been taught all their mormon lives that wanking is the sin next to murder. Ask them if they really believe that. And of course, ask them why you've been told that Utah is porn-subscription capitol of the world...

Ask them why you should turn over your children, male and female, to be raised by the church, with the bishop as their father, with whom they have to meet at least once a year to be asked about their sexual thoughts and actions. Some bishops are 'better' fathers and get the kids alone, behind a closed door, to make these gentle, fatherly inquiries on a more frequent basis. Would any rational parent volunteer to do this? (thus the 'cult' references when the mormon church is mentioned.)

Ask them about 'disobedient' missionaries, ask them what they think the percentage is of obedient v. disobedient missionaries.

And by all means, please visit this thread on another filthy apostate website (filthy apostate is high praise in my vocabulary):

http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/discussions/viewthread/18763/

Besides being totally wankaphobic, the mormon church is homophobic, misogynistic and totally a non-respecter of science AND good manners!

Now then, to be fair, there are people who benefit from the structure a church, any church, can give them. If that's you, fine, but find a better, kinder, organization, with a trained clergy.

Welcome!

Go direct to the source - "The Church" recently put out a series of essays on topics they have, at the least, downplayed for many years. Many members that have been in since birth and now in their 40s/50s did not know this information. Chances are good the missionaries you are speaking with don't know or know any of the details. Often when ExMormons would bring these topics up we were shouted down and told they were "anti mormon lies". One interesting point, none of these have author names on them. Read them DIRECTLY from their own website so you are 100% clear that they are from them. They did leave lots of holes that we can help you research with source material, just ask :).

One you may find specifically interesting is this one - https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng
Even though all the lessons for at least the last 20 years only discuss Joe Smith and ONE wife, Emma, they now are admitting to over 40. Some very young (14) and in vulnerable positions to Smith. This was NOT common as census reports from the time show and those that did happen were between people close in age. Also, the onset of menses for the girls of the time was 17. Some were already married to other men. Some men were specifically sent off on missions so that Smith would have access to their wives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith's_wives

Note that he was NOT sealed to his own LEGAL wife until May 1843. If this was such a wonderful special thing that meant you would be with your loved one forever wouldn't your own WIFE had been first? Not sandwiched between teenagers?

Joseph Smith Jr. – Son of Joseph Smith and Lucy Mack. Born 23 December 1805 at Sharon, Windsor County, Vermont. Married Emma Hale at South Bainbridge, Chenango County, New York, 18 January 1827. …Sealed to wife, Emma, 28 May 1843.

More info found here - http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1438886,1438886#msg-1438886

Complete list of essays to date - ALL direct on LDS.org. http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1180178,1180178#msg-1180178

This is a fact list compiled by our Richard Packham you may also find helpful. And again, no one is asking you to accept the research of others. Anything you want more info on folks around here will find you source material. http://www.exmormon.org/tract2.htm Never put anyone's judgement before your own.

Keep asking questions :) !

I second this.
A marrital teenage sandwich couldn't possibly be ordained by God.
Please ask a lot of questions.
As a teen convert I was highly impressionable and duped by smiley happy faces.
Smiley faces doesn't make it true.It doesn't mean they have a clue what their talking about. It doesn't even mean their happy. Escapism and salesmanship through Smiles doesn't mean it's true.

To reaffirm what ElderOldDog said:
"Now then, to be fair, there are people who benefit from the structure a church, any church, can give them. If that's you, fine, but find a better, kinder, organization, with a trained clergy."

There are a lot of genuine people in other churches with less deceptive lying baggage.

I'm in the UK too. Born and raised mormon. I did everything by the book in mormonism and thought I had lots of friends. Turns out they were only my friends while I believed in the church. When I said I didn't they were gone. Find proper friends and don't open this Pandora's Box for your children's sake.

Missionaries pretend to be best buddies with investigators and hide a lot of things about the church from them (milk before meat). And then the missionaries move on and the investigators tend to leave the church when they start to find out snippets of truth.

Sunshine. Tjank you for sharing with me. Can I ask what you mean by they wont let you leave?

I'm still a member, because they won't let me leave.

The missionaries and members are not being nice to you because they 'love' you. They are being nice to you because they think their salvation is at risk if they don't get you baptised and to the temple. The church teaches that we are responsible and will have to answer for the souls we don't bring in.

And let me tell you, once you are in, the pressure will be on to sacrifice everything you have - including your identity - as another cog in the wheel. You will get very little back from the church.

being a member in the UK is a hard slog. Being a working mum, you will instantly be frowned on and you will start to hear the guilt trips of 'have faith and quit and be a stay at home mom' type messages within the lessons.

Being a mormon is a constant psychological pressure, not to mention a physically exhausting and expensive, time consuming religion.

But above all these things - take it from me, born in the church, life long, I KNOW the doctrine, teachings etc, here is my painful testimony - the church is not true. Joseph Smith was a fraud. We had no choice, we were born into it and we were groomed to trust the information we were given.

Now millions of members like myself, are searching hard and long, and finding that the religion is built on sand, not even real sand, but sand created by the inter-related white Rebulican men who've been in the top leadership positions in the church and who are all interrelated somehow back to Brigham and Joseph.

The church is a family business and the leaders protect it by denying information to its members.

The people - the innocent people - like missionaries, members, inestigators like yourself - like myself. We are not 'the church' or 'the gospel'. We are good people who are victims of a fraud. It's painful for us to realise this now but we cannot deny truth.

If you really want to join the church, please read through www.mormonthink.com before you make your decision.

Good luck.

I, too, think being good is good enough. No religion required. From my experience as a Mormon I never felt good enough. And I could never do enough. So, if you think about it, the missionaries don't think you are good enough as you are. Without Mormonism you will always be second class in their eyes, but with Mormonism you will hit lows you didn't think possible.

There is no excuse in this day and age not to research a product before you buy. Kudos! You will be doing yourself, your husband and children a HUGE favor by doing just a little bit of research and avoiding the minefields. In my opinion life is so much better away from Mormonism. Once you get past everyone handling you with kid gloves, oohing and ahhing over your choice to join, they pile on the work and manipulate you to do things against your better judgment.

Let us know if you have other questions or how it plays out. Even if you do decide to join, you can let us know if we've fed you any bull crap.

One thing that bothered me on my mission was the pressure to set goals for baptisms. And in order to get them, had to set goals for number of people contacted and numbers of lessons taught, etc.

Anyway, when the missionaries pressure you to join, ask them how they are doing on their baptismal numbers.

They might care about you, but the system likes numbers.

A few weeks ago missionairies came to my door.
I talked about the numbers game.
They said, oh noooo we're not about numbers. Not at all!

I asked them if they came on their mission to baptize?

They said yes.

I said, yeah, that's why you're here at my door, you want to baptize. You're asked how many people you're teaching this month. How many you baptized this year.
Those are numbers.

Written especially for folks in your situation:

"To Those Who Are Investigating Mormonism: What The Missionaries Don't Tell You"

http://packham.n4m.org/tract.htm

Take the advice of those above, and me too. I was born into the religion, and after a few decades of trying to make allowances, determined that it was a fraud. This religion differs sharply from regular Christianity, if there is such a thing. You'd be much better off sticking with the religion of your culture, or do as I did.. reject all religion and find a way to deal with reality as it really is.

I think the simple fact you are seeking guidance on the internet in an exmormon forum should be putting up your personal warning flags. Something isn't right. Mormon missionaries want to get you to make a commitment and get you baptized really fast, within six weeks, if not sooner. It's really not a lot of time to really learn about this faith and make an informed decision. High-pressure sales. If you were looking to convert to Catholicism, you would be taking classes and participating in worship services for nine months to a year, and at the end of this, they don't want you to convert unless you're very seriously ready. These missionaries are probably trying to get you baptized right away, and you haven't even attended a worship service yet.

What you are experiencing now is "love bombing." You are a "golden contact." Everyone is going to treat you really nice, like you are the queen. Mormons don't really like converts. You are damaged for not being born into the faith. You were naughty in the preexistence and are being punished by being born to a non-Mormon family with the abuse you were born into. Once you get dunked, this attention will stop. You will be left with guilt and shame as you toss over 10% and give up all your free time to whatever busy work the Mormon church wants you to do. It's a hamster wheel, and it's an abusive organization.

Whatever you do, take your time before taking the plunge. Participate, attend services, read, and learn. If you decide a year from now Mormonism is where you want to be, you did your due diligence investigating. Just don't get baptized within the six weeks the missionaries want. Mormonism is the Hotel California, you can check out, but you can never leave. You are not being taught the real meat of the religion. These boys don't even know most of it. Take time to really learn about it and pay attention to what these exmo's have written. They have been there/done that. They know the nitty-gritty.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2014 06:49PM by omreven.

omreven Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> What you are experiencing now is "love bombing."
> You are a "golden contact." Everyone is going to
> treat you really nice, like you are the queen.
> Mormons don't really like converts. You are
> damaged for not being born into the faith. You
> were naughty in the preexistence and are being
> punished by being born to a non-Mormon family with
> the abuse you were born into. Once you get
> dunked, this attention will stop.
>

I was going to write something along this line.

Ask the missionairies that if it's SO true why weren't you born into a mormon family.
Ask why you had to hear it now as an adult.

They're telling you that they have a prophet to guide and direct people, so let them use that "restored" priesthood (tm) to inform you of the answers to these questions.
I'm sure they can contact the apostles if they don't know the answers. Their teaching that the apostles are provided to help inform people of truth; they can get busy informing.

I'd like to hear what this generation of missionaries have to say about this topic.

I didn't discover I was 'lesser than' bic's (born in the covenent) until after I was baptized. I was a teen and very impressionable but at any age you don't know what to ask if you don't know the details. Learn the details.

Don't walk away. RUN!

The Mormon church is similar to the Jehovah's Witnesses in its desire to control the church's members. They want to control what you drink, wear, view, think, and how you spend your time. If the JWs had shown up at your door, would you have joined their church? This is no different. The missionaries are specifically told to give you "milk before meat." This means that they withhold the unpalatable parts of church history and doctrine because they deem you "not ready" for the weirdness. Cut your losses now! If you want to find a church community, there are many sane churches out there. The CoE, the Methodists, the Presbyterians, the Lutherans etc. would gladly welcome you and not suck every last bit of life out of you. Vote for yourself, not a very greedy bunch of conmen.