How many of the Montanans that wrote this dress code for legislators are mormon? Sure sounds mormonish.

Excerpt from the article is pasted in below:

[…] Montana’s GOP took steps to make Montana’s dress code even more stringent than Wyoming’s. [snipped out section on bolo ties]

Montana GOPers also removed an item from the Wyoming dress code allowing sleeveless dresses–IF and only if they were worn under jackets that is. Apparently however, the thought that some woman might be sleeveless underneath her suit coat was too much for MT Republicans, so they took it out.

Finally, although Wyoming lawmakers have generously been allowed to wear knit dresses–if sufficiently covered by a jacket. That language is also removed from the MT dress code. […]

http://mtcowgirl.com/2014/12/10/tea-party-leadership-in-montana-took-wyoming-dress-code-and-made-it-stricter/
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I don't know if this was only the leadership in one party, haven't been able to figure that out yet. Taking all of the politics out of this we are still left with women forbidden to have bare shoulders in public.

And the consequence for not following the dress code is what, censure and/or removal from office? That would be hilarious and a national embarrassment for Montana. I would hope that most women who make it to the state legislature would know how to dress appropriately.

I don't know how many mormon men hold legislative office in Montana, but I do know that most of the legislators are men.

There is one LDS woman as far as I can tell.

"Motivated by her parents' oft-quoted mantra to become an independent, contributing member of society, 36-year-old Liz Bangerter is most likely exceeding their expectations when she became the first Mormon woman to be elected to Montana's Legislature. [...]"
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700107183/LDS-woman-elected-to-Montana-Legislature.html?pg=all

Betcha them wimmins can't wear pants- trousers, as Katharine Hepburn called 'em- either, right?

Here's some sarcastic coverage of one of the mormon men in the Montana legislature (quote below is excerpted from the linked article):

The owner of Rimrock Auto Group and the new Mercedes Benz dealership in Billings, Steve Zabawa, has reportedly spent $20,000 to run anti-medical cannabis ads throughout next week. When he isn’t hiring inexpensive employees from the Alpha House or refusing to honor contractual obligations, Zabawa can typically be found in Helena testifying that his dealerships have been vandalized by medical marijuana addicts. Brother Zabawa, as he is affectionately known in his Mormon circles, believes that blessings stem from obedience. Apparently he believes we need to obey him.

Steve Zabawa has a handful of card- holding employees. The puritanical prohibitionist Mormon anti-medical marijuana activist apparently wants to revoke his general manager’s right to legally provide cannabis to his wife who is suffering from terminal bone cancer. Sounds like a great guy to me. I guess it isn’t any wonder that the dealership has been plagued by a string of lawsuits by customers, employees, and business contacts. The secret service has been investigating the dealership and rumors of mob connections and shady deals have circulated for as long as Zabawa, the obedient Mormon; has owned the dealership. [...]

http://montanafesto.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/rimrock-auto-groupmercedes-benz-owner-declares-mormon-jihad-on-medical-marijuana/

Isn't is forbidding women AND MEN from having bare shoulders while at their job? Is that a problem in a professional workplace?

Now, if it says women can't wear dress pants and are only allowed to wear skirts or dresses, then, I could see the isssue.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2014 12:56PM by eternal1.

The code mentions sleeveless dresses for women, and does not mention sleeveless shirts for men. I assume the men may bare their shoulders as much as they like.

You are most likely making the wrong assumption here. I've never seen a "professional" dress code that allowed men to have bare shoulders. If a guy comes in wearing a tank top, or sleeveless dress shirt, it's a near certainty that he would be told to change.

Are you advocating for men to be allowed to wear sleeveless shirts? How about skirts and dresses or the equivalent for males? Why are men not allowed to wear those while women are?

The code specifically mentions no sleeveless dresses because there are women that would consider that "professional" dress. Men typically don't consider a sleeveless shirt to be professional.

Maybe they could fix the problem for you if they simply stated in the code for males the same thing, such as "no sleeveless shirts".

The women whom I've seen working in conservative environments will always wear a jacket when they are wearing a sleeveless dress, a shell, or a filmy blouse.

I do not know about MT, but men are not aloud to show their shoulders, midriffs, legs or chests in professional settings. The only time men can bare their shoulders is in athletics such as basketball, at the beach or pool, or in very casual settings. You would not see a guy wear a tank top to work in an office, even in the hottest summer heat. Nor do most offices allow shorts for men, while women can wear skirts.

Aren't there bigger issues going on besides this kind of garbage!!??

No. There is no bigger issue. It's a power struggle.

As posted before, if the people don't like how a representative presents herself they can vote her out. No one's else's opinion matters.

If someone has the smarts to get elected, can we not trust them to use their own judgment in such trivial matters?

Some people get an ego rush from being in a formal work environment, so they feel a need to tell others how to dress in order to stroke their own egos. Get over it and get to work.

There are lots of bigger issues that MT legislators could address.

There are lots of bigger issues that we could address.

But this kind of daily harassment of women is a big issue in my book. Some of the female legislators agree.

The dress code from Montana legislators includes other rules (quoted text below is from The Week:

[…]The Montana House of Representatives last week imposed rules banning jeans, open-toed sandals, and excessive cleavage for all members. “Women should be sensitive to skirt lengths and necklines,” the code states.

Female members of the legislature bristled at the change, with House Minority Whip Jenny Eck saying it suggests [women] can’t be trusted to get up in the morning and dress appropriately.” But House Speaker Austin Knudsen said the code was merely aimed at ensuring formality, and insisted he never imagined it could be construed as sexist.[…]

http://theweek.com/speedreads/index/273408/speedreads-the-montana-legislatures-new-dress-code-warns-women-to-be-sensitive-to-skirt-lengths-and-necklines

Coverage in the New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/14/us/politics/montana-dress-code-has-female-legislators-sporting-new-look-clenched-jaws.html

Excerpt below:

Ms. Eck said she was leaving a health care forum in Helena, the capital, on Monday when one of her Republican colleagues peered at her and told her that he was glad to see she was dressed appropriately.

“It just creates this ability to scrutinize women,” Ms. Eck said. “It makes it acceptable for someone who’s supposed to be my peer and my equal to look me up and down and comment on what I’m wearing. That doesn’t feel right.”

Some more details regarding the dress code:

"The seven-point list covers men’s attire, calling for a suit or a jacket and tie, dress slacks and shirt, and “dress shoes or dress boots.” But the guidelines for women are a little longer and more detailed, and had many female lawmakers rolling their eyes. The list includes what kinds of footwear they should avoid (flip-flops, tennis shoes and open-toe sandals), declares that leggings are not considered dress pants, and encourages modesty on skirt lengths and necklines."

I cannot imagine men wearing sandals or flip flops into an office.

Other coverage:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/montana-legislature-dress-code

http://www.kxlh.com/news/dress-code-for-montana-legislature-sparks-some-criticism/

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/09/us-usa-montana-dresscode-idUSKBN0JN2LW20141209

apparently the male Mt legislators are easily distracted....

as far as 'bigger issues', this is a COMMON Mo tactic: Keep members chasing rainbows.

just sayin'



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2014 02:26PM by GNPE.

Burqas would still work.

We sure can't have our men distracted by open toed shoes when apparently there are so many top priorities for the legislature.

One has to ask why the Wyoming legislature also has rules against bare shoulders for women. Total weirdness.

More coverage on the Montana dress code:

http://www.mediaite.com/online/montana-state-houses-new-dress-code-outrages-female-lawmakers/

http://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/montana-dress-code

Excerpt below:

“There’s a brief sentence about men and the next three are dedicated to women,” House Minority Whip Jenny Eck, a Democrat, told BuzzFeed News. “It feels like an admonishment reserved for women about being sensitive about what we wear and I find that problematic.”

“I don’t think there was an intent to be discriminatory, but that was the end effect,” she said.

Eck said the Republican leadership did not consult the mostly female Democratic House leadership when writing the code.

More coverage (funny to keep saying "more coverage" of a story about covering women up):

http://missoulian.com/news/local/strict-dress-code-for-montana-legislature-draws-ire-satire/article_594063fb-0e0e-5ee2-a032-b66b090c38f8.html

Excerpt:

When the code became public knowledge Friday, posters on Twitter, Facebook and other social-media sites teed off, calling it a “junior-high dress code” – although some took the humorous approach. “Banning fleece? In Montana?” one poster asked on Twitter. “Isn’t it cold there?”

The emphasis on women not being allowed to wear leggings also sounds mormon-ish.

The dress code sounds like they want all the women to conform to a mormon church dress code. The exception is for pants suits. Women are allowed to wear pants suits.

What I'd really love to read - is that sleeveless dresses are OK IF you wear a t-shirt underneath them. We'd really know it was a mormon led agenda then! Hee Hee!

In some jobs I've had, the issue has more to do with the arm pit and sweat rather than shoulder exposure. Same with covering feet. In some places it is more about hygiene.

Bare shoulders for women is a completely professional look. To regard it any other way is to project one's own sexually charged thoughts onto the woman. The fault is with the onlooker, not the woman.

I disagree.

If men must remain covered to be considered professional, women can do the same.

Perhaps you are saying bare shoulders for men should be considered professional as well? And, to have a problem with that would be projecting one's own sexually charged thoughts onto the man.

Nonsense. Here is a totally professional sleeveless dress:
http://www.amazon.com/Anne-Klein-Womens-Sleeveless-A-Line/dp/B00E59MM08

A. I would wear this to work.
B. I would probably get compliments on it.
C. As a Floridian, I cannot imagine weather in Montana that would be conducive to sleeveless dresses. I was there in September and kept my arms covered.
D. Nevertheless, there is nothing wrong or unprofessional at ALL about the dress in this link.

Here's another lovely sleeveless skirt suit:
http://www.overstock.com/Clothing-Shoes/Sharagano-Suits-Womens-Cotton-Sleeveless-Skirt-Suit/7907861/product.html?refccid=HEUIKLY2DUN25QSCGMMX7LBVQQ&searchidx=8



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2014 04:29PM by dogzilla.

As a person who actually votes for people in the Montana legislature I am disgusted by this action.

Not that I would ever vote for a republican.

I do find it fascinating that in the Montana campaigns this year, the republicans continued to trump for less regulation as a pathway to conducting more business in the state.

Then the irony of enacting regulation on their own people, particularly because it is sexist.

We are not witnessing leadership or free thinking by this move.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2014 05:28PM by deco.

I believe in a non-gender based dress code for any professional. I agree for a "No casual wear" policy. It is business. Even in Montana, get rid of the jeans, the cowboy hats,flip flops, etc.

Banning something one might not even see in public? I am wondering if a man helped right the "no sleeveless dresses even under a coat rule". Hygiene? Nah. Perspiring is not a hygiene issues. Our bodies are designed to do that when HOT. Not bathing or using deodorant are hygiene issues. A person who heavily perspires is going to take additional measures out of common sense.

Attitudes about what one wears underneath give me the chills and reminds me of people who would check for VGL's. (Visible Garment Lines.)

RMM

Although I no longer live in my home state, my first reaction was wondering which Mormon "staffer" came up with this nonsense. The modesty in necklines and skirt hems are what screamed Mormon to me.

There's enough sexist crap already in government. Codifying it and encouraging it is just uncalled for.