Scientology has the same cult of celebrity as Mormonism. The difference is that Mormon celebs are unknown to the greater (and I do mean greater) public. Tommy, the highest celebrity of the LDS cult, is presently in a Shrodinger's cat paradox, alive and/or dead at the same time.

It might start them thinking about the similarities with Mormonism.....


"How to get a convinced [cultist] on the road to recovery"

Former Scientologist Jon Atack recommends:

"The first aspect of intervention is to present parallel material. Never go head on. Sometimes it takes months, but the goal is to encourage critical thinking, so that the individual will begin to look for the way out...."

"A recent documentary about the Jehovah’s Witnesses — Truth be Told — is very good, as is Meet the Mormons. Scientologists are happy to laugh at such cultic behavior. There is never any need to point out that identical behaviors exist in Scientology. They will work that out, eventually. By the way, this is the opposite of hypnosis, in that it is all presented analytically and leaves the person to sort it out rationally....."

http://tonyortega.org/2014/12/06/jon-atack-how-to-get-a-convinced-scientologist-on-the-road-to-recovery/

I would love it if a talented filmaker made a similar exposé on mormonism.

There is a huge amount of information about Mormonism that has not been put into an accessible piece of film--nasty, disturbing information.

Ditto.

I really don't think there's been enough publicity given to the brainwashing, enforcement, and mind control aspects of Mormonism. As far as history and doctrine, Helen Whitney did a great job with her documentary in 2007.

There was that recent British doc about the missionary experience. But it did not get play over here.

Oh come on, don't be ridiculous. L Ron Hubbard is the greatest individual who ever lived! There are millions of successful, normal, happy Scientologists. It couldn't be a cult with that many members, that would be too far-fetched. Scientology is good for people! It's the fastest growing religion on the planet!

(sarcasm)

What was it someone once said: Scientology is the canary in the coal mine for religion. As long as Scientology is allowed to operate, TSCC is safe.

I read the book and it really shocked me. Mormonism has NOTHING on the inner workings of Scientology.

Imagine a meeting of the FP and the Q12 sitting around having a meeting and say Ballard disagrees with something Monson wants, and Monson goes into a tantrum and beats up Ballard and then sends him away to clean toilets on a boat for a couple years, while bring him out each conference and forcing him to act like everything is okay on threat that if he doesn't his kids will be killed.

the Church is 'evil', the Scientologists are evil with a dose of adrenaline added for good measure.

As someone who came to this board via the Operation Clambake anti-Scientology forum, I can only agree, but with one reservation:

Scientology now is much weirder and more dangerous than LDS now.

But Scientology now has quite a lot in common with early mormonism in the 19th century...

Tom in Paris

But...but....Scientology: "Over a half billion reached"!!

Apparently it's a big year in Park City for films about the power of social influence.

"The Experiment" about Stanley Milgram's authority figure research and "The Stanford Prison Experiment" about Philip Zimbardo's work in social psychology are also being shown at Sundance.

http://laist.com/2015/01/20/sundance_film_festival_2015_15_film.php

There is also a film about Warren Jeffs this year. Prophet's Prey:
http://www.prophetsprey.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2015 06:10PM by 2+2=4.

How does one get to the comments for that article???

Like many on this board, I have no experience with Scientology and a lot with Mormonism... but I find the fact that L Ron Hubbard had Joseph Smith to use as a prototype for his cult to be beyond fascinating.

Perhaps this will motivate Rom Howard to develop "Under the Banner of Heaven" as he apparently purchased the film rights.

L. Ron Howard?

I said it before and I'll say it again - L. Ron's religion modeled that of JS Jr's in so many ways, intentionally or not:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1148403,1148496#msg-1148496

He was married with kids. VERY successful as his wife. They do drink alcohol but are super weird about therapy and think its bad...They also avoid all bad news which is good but to an extreme which wasn't so good. I used to have to hide bad news from him and/or learn to tell him in a way that there was a solution. All of their friends were celeb scientologists. I did learn a lot from him about looking for the good and hard work but I would never join, ever. Nor would I go to even one class or anything scientology because they are relentless and won't let you go...

Personally, I did not find Scientologists to be like TBMs at all yet, I knew the upper crust and have heard they are treated differently than the rest.

This is another great book about Scientology, if anyone is interested.

http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Scientology-Americas-Secretive-Religion/dp/0547750358/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1422387666&sr=8-1&keywords=janet+reitman

Scientology isn't a religion. It does not have any of the standard, identifiable concepts of a religion (at least ones that are easily recognizable- may if you pay enough millions you get to learn about them.) So far as I know, they have no code of conduct for how to treat others or treat yourselves, no worship in a higher power (other than a cult of personality surrounding L. Ron Hubbard), no belief in an afterlife, no scripture (except for maybe the Dianetics books L. Ron published to make money, and were essentially established as a basis for the religion after the fact). It's just a place where you can spend money to learn weird stuff, be taught that psychiatry is evil because L. Ron's early beliefs were heavily criticized by the Psychiatric and Medical community (rightly so), and be indoctrinated.

The Parallels to Mormons are there, certainly, but membership in Scientology, and advancement, is DIRECTLY predicated on the amount of money you can spend, whereas in mormonism this is important but in tandem with your moral worthiness/ never having had church discipline. As long as you don't badmouth Scientology, I honestly don't think they give a fuck what you do as long as you keep handing them cash hand over fist, and you can keep learning about 'Xenu' and the DC-10's that took every living soul to earth 75 million years ago and were dropped in a volcano and the volcano exploded.

How their Lawyers browbeat the IRS into giving them nonprofit status is a combination of angering and mindboggling. It's a terrible thing, a blight on this earth, and in my opinion, far worse than mormonism. However, their numbers are super exaggerated; it's doesn't even have nonprofit status as a religion in most countries, is outright banned in some, and is really only present in the Western Part of the United States. Its presence has been exaggerated based on their relationship with celebrities, who honestly, end up leaving the religion frequently any way (with a few notable exceptions.) I believe their are more ex-scientologists in hollywood than their are current ones.

I'd be surprised if it had more than 200,000 members, current and inactive.

And as a footnote, go to Wikipedia and read their entry on L. Ron Hubbard. it's hysterical- it pretty much establishes the churches hagiography and outlandish claims (hero in WW2, learned from Mystics and Shamans in Native American Tribes, had a PHD, etc.) with actual facts about his life that contradict everything the CoS claims about him. It's worse than Joseph Smith, believe me, and it's so recent it's way easier to pick apart and identify the lies. Apparently the church doesn't realize that the Military keeps records about the people that serve in it. From the article about his military service:

"According to U.S. Navy records, the majority of Hubbard's experience is marked by poor performance, poor evaluations, no record of any combat experience, and Hubbard over inflating his medical conditions to avoid any theater of war. Hubbard sensationalized his military record in order to aid in launching Scientology. The Church of Scientology remains highly sensitive to any criticism of his records due to the impact on the credibility of Hubbard, and by extension, the church."

Pretty much the story of his life. I can't say enough about what a terrible person he was, and how terrible CoS is.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2015 03:49PM by midwestanon.

In stasis at best. And I will watch "Going Clear" some time; all cults fascinate me.

I'm amused and annoyed at a headline about how the audience cheered the "courage" it took to produce this film. I very much doubt Scientology has the power to seriously harass enemies outside the cult. They can only focus on their own wavering members.

I'll be impressed with Hollywood's "courage" when I see documentaries or bio-pics on the dark sides of the likes of Margaret Sanger (racism & eugenics) and Alfred Kinsey (pedophilia and manipulation of under grads into sex).

Caffiend, it actually did take some courage. Scientology is known for their huge group of lawyers who sue anyone doing anything to "hurt" their religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_and_the_legal_system

"Critics state that the ultimate aim of Scientology lawsuits is to destroy church opponents by forcing them into bankruptcy or submission, using its resources to pursue frivolous lawsuits at considerable cost to defendants."

They are known for filing lawsuits with the intention of causing financial harm to people they believe are their enemies. So in a way it is courageous to make a documentary criticizing them. Both the author of the book and the filmmaker are opening themselves up to years of potential lawsuits and huge lawyer fees.

Here are just a few of the lawsuits they filed to harm people:

In 1984, the church began a legal battle with Gerry Armstrong that spanned two decades. The church sued Armstrong for providing confidential documents about L. Ron Hubbard to Armstrong's attorney. The court found that Armstrong's actions were justifiable and affirmed this conclusion in Church of Scientology v. Gerald Armstrong.

Armstrong settled his counter-claims with the church in December 1986 for $800,000 in exchange for his agreement to keep confidential his experience with the church. The church sued Armstrong for $10.5 million in 1995 and 2002 for allegedly violating the confidentiality agreement in 131 instances. A California appellate court awarded the church $321,923 in damages and $334,671.75 in attorneys fees in 1995, and $500,000 in damages in 2004. The court noted that "Armstrong makes no claim that he has complied, or will ever comply, with the injunction" and that Armstrong claims to now reside in Canada.

From the time its tax exemption was removed by the IRS in 1967 to the reinstatement of the tax exemption in 1993, Scientologists filed approximately 2,500 lawsuits against the IRS. Over fifty lawsuits were still active against the IRS in 1993, although these were settled after the church negotiated a tax exemption with the government.

The Cult Awareness Network (CAN) was driven into bankruptcy in 1996 in part by a number of Scientology-related lawsuits. As the TV news program 60 Minutes reported in 1997, Scientologists filed over fifty lawsuits against the non-profit organization, which spent over $2 million on its legal defense. After one court handed down a judgment of $1 million against CAN, the organization filed for bankruptcy and auctioned off its assets, which were purchased for $20,000 by a lawyer affiliated with Scientology.

In May 1991, Time magazine published a cover story on Scientology. The Church responded by suing Time for $400 million; a five-year legal battle ensued in which Time spent approximately $7 million defending itself in court. The case was eventually dismissed in the magazine's favor.

What you've said, no-mo-lurker, is true, but much of it goes back several decades. As I said in my post above, they are having trouble keeping grips on their own members. Even Katie Holmes bolted, although with intricate planning and significant risk. But broad legal and violent offensives against critics outside their organization is less viable. The general public and law enforcement agencies are more savvy to matters of harassment, sabotage, and legal nuisance suits.

The same is happening with LDS. As more people exit, their retaliatory powers, such as shunning, become less effective.

I'm speaking of general trends. We needs bear in mind that a badly wounded viper can still be deadly. It's just that its striking distance keeps getting shorter.

One of the assets scientology bought in CAN's bankruptcy was their internet domain which was then staffed by scientologists. Anyone who called thinking they would get accurate information was not told the individual they were speaking to was actually a cultist.