So help an old Texan out here my fellow Godless apostates, my knowledge of the events surrounding the church's fight with the LGBT community is limited to what I read and a Netflix Documentary.

So the church actively pushes prop 8 (discriminatory legislation) in California by forcing financial and campaign help from the sheep (TBMs). Salt Lake denies they have direct involvement and blames who else...the sheep. Their efforts result in a short lived political victory but a PR disaster.

Two thoughts,first, who the hell thought it would be a good idea for Oaks to talk to the press claiming the church is a victim? Second, does anyone else see this as the first step in the church changing doctrine to again fit public opinion?

I would have more respect for these men if they were not such blatant cowards. Every doctrine they are wrong on (polygamy, racism, etc...) they can't just come out and admit it like men. They shift blame to the sheep, they claim they're victims, they hide behind anonymous writings, they cover up, and they send their PR and legal team to intercept.

I've always said this...the biggest threat to the LDS Church is the truth.

To me, this is the source of the problem. They grew up in a closed system so that from their earliest days they were exposed to ridiculous doctrine and told to "doubt their doubts" or in other words, doubt their brains.

These boys did very well in that system and rose to the top and their current "exalted position". They believed the outside world was evil and that there was nothing to be learned from nevermos. As leaders they are used to the sheep fawning and gushing over their every word, no matter how inane and nonsensical. Now they go out and try to speak to the outside world and they blow it every time. They use the double talk they have always used "we're the persecuted ones here" and they just can't understand people challenging them.

I think they are going to step in it, every time they leave their bolt holes in the nether regions of the cult.

People need to call them on their BS loud and clear and gay exmos and other exmormons need to tell nevermos loud and clear, both on-line and f2f what a BS organization TSCC really is and all the ridiculous and destructive beliefs they have.

I hope the old boys don't change. I want them to keep trying to speak to the outside world so that the outside world gets to understand the true nature of this cult.

Do I think TSCC is going to go under? No, at least not anytime soon. But I want the public to put TSCC in the same crazy category as most people put the JWs and scientologists.

It is even better / worse than that.
So, LDS Inc wants to impinge on gay rights, because they have to have some one to vilify !

They roll with their plan ala prop 8, They enlist the assistance of other religious entities in their crusade. To the other religions, LDS Inc brags about how they are leading the charge, as they ask for the other's assistance. When there is finally some substantial resentment about what is being done in this crusade, when people are called to account for it, NOW, suddenly LDS Inc. points out that they were just this unwitting tiny little peripheral player in the whole affair, an entity that was drug into fray with out really understanding exactly what was going on!


Don't you feel sorry for them ?

Regarding Prop 8, the brethren were GOBSMACKED that they were called out by name for the first time for their behind the scenes political maneuverings. They absolutely cannot get over it! They have mulled this over since then, repeatedly I'm sure, and the Temple Square press conference was the result.

Double Speak: Language that can be used in more than one way and is used to trick or deceive people.

The brethren this week asked to be treated with repsect, in return for their supposedly treating others, such as the LGBT community, with respect. Upon closer examination, we find, as per usual with mormon leadership, they are really not doing anything of the kind. What they are really doing is staking a claim to "religious freedom" as a justification for public, outside of church, behavior that goes against the ideals of our pluralistic society. The details of how this would work out in practice are left conveniently vague but it certainly looks like it would leave the door open for them to discriminate in the public arena because of religious beliefs, a la Hobby Lobby.

The brethren's habitual and neverending use of double speak shows an outrageous lack of respect for others.

The brethren's inability to apologize for anything shows lack of respect for others.

The innumberable inbuilt, coercive and controlling features of their doctrines and organizational practices show a complete, utter lack of respect for the autonomy of the individual.

Their unwillingness to be financially transparent shows a lack of respect for others.

This organization is inherently disrespectful.

If this organization can turn itself around and be honest, transparent, and respectful of the conscience of every individual, then and only then can it legitimately ask for respect from others.