Did the Morg ever really teach this or did the concept rub off from the popularity of Saturday's Warrior?

Have any of you recently heard TBMs still spouting that we choose our parents?

I was taught 2 entirely different concepts by different people.

This is what I was taught in junior SS/Primary, SS, & Mutual – We chose are parents in the "pre-existence".

This is what I was taught in Seminary – Our parents were assigned to us.

The Nazi Seminary teacher even said that the former was wrong when kids in class tried to tell him that was what we were always taught.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2015 09:21PM by Tristan.

It isn't doctrine, but it is generally accepted that we knew our parents before we were born. Some of us might even be many years older than our earthly parents.

Blame the victim. Quitcher bichen- you knew before you were born what kind of life you would lead, and you consented because you felt it was worth it just to get your body. Yeah mom slaps you all the time, but you agreed to the experience.

The only problem with that it that according to older doctrines, people were born into certain households and countries in accordance with their pre-mortal actions and valor. So, if you are valiant and worthy to be born into a white American household, what does that say about the parents that hit you all the time. Were they like that before? And if so, they should have been born in Tunisia or somewhere.

Not only does that spell trouble, what about those who are worthy and waiting to be born into the super-priveledged household, only to discover that their intended/assigned parents are exmormons apostates or prostitutes? It seems that they could opt for better worthy parents rather than willingly be thrust into a nightmare world with little or no chance of returning.

But fear not! The verifiably false Book of Abraham is the only mormon scripture that speaks about a pre-existence.

"Some of us might even be many years older than our earthly parents."


I learn some new wacky mormon sh1t, everyday here...


That's funny rat thar'....

A TBM coworker who had followed the Mormon path of marrying too young and having kids right away - more than she could cope with. She admitted once that she was often verbally abusive (never physical, but ...?) She excused away her behavior with the rational that the children had picked her to be their mother in the pre-existence so they knew what they were getting.

May I add, we choose fuc-ed up families and fuc-ed up early MORmON marriages because we covenanted with those disfucttional spirits that we would (help them) "progress" through mortality. I wonder why they were not "given" the protection of pigmented skin (in MORmON pop theology) if they were so dysfunctional (no pun or rascism are implied here). The pre-existance theology is so fucked up and can be added upon with a carefully worded Patriarchal or priesthood blessing; remember if the revelation only applies to you and not the family, ward, or church, it's fair game. When I was a kid, in the early 60's, when dad wasn't home, mom gave us priesthood blessings.

Now in second marriage (non TBM), without influence of first TBM, critical thinking has been active for a decade or more; wow, in a former TBM post graduate. I believe I understand Dan-tapir rider's problem. After many kids, one is out (she's 21, a critical thinker and the apple of my eye). She was also the "fence bender" (farm talk for the most preious cow that pushed against the fence to find the green grass on the other side) among the tribe. The two older then number 3, and the 4 younger are lost, for now. Our home and hearts are open to help them as we did with their sibling, however, then are stuck in a rut. They are not finishing college, still living at home, and living on their mother's lies; Dad is an alcoholic (yes I drink), dad is a porn addict (I like the real thing more and there's more of that then I can handle at moments, however, I can sleep it off over 12 hours, dad is an adulterer (can't say I never look in 'lust').

As the Hinkster might say, "I don't know that we teach that..."

This is the gospel according to Saturday's Warrior...not that anyone in church ever tried to contradict the teaching, from what I can remember.

I Shummy, having been born of goodly parents......didn't realize that they really were goodly. As a lad, I couldn't phatom why if I had a choice, why had I chosen so badly?

However, looking back I had it pretty damn good. Dad was remote and absorbed in farming 6 1/2 days a week (Sunday didn't get us out of milking and irrigating).

Plus, I was Mom's #1 and only son so I had it waaay easier than my older sisters.

My Dad died in a farm accident when I was 17 leaving me footloose and fancy free to flee from Mormonism.

Guess I'm saying that if I had to choose again, I could do a lot worse than joining the Shummy clan.

But......rest assurred folks, I remain skeptical that I had anything do do with it.

Shummy, you really did choose this lifestyle when Heavenly Mother caught you masturbating on the planet East of Kolob when you were supposed to be voting in favor of The Plan of Salvation.

How do I know this? Well, I was the spirit kid over in the bushes doing a circle jerk with spirits choosing to go to Africa on the planet East of Kolob. That's why I ended up with an alcoholic parent. The Boner.

as usual, lot's of ambiguity about the nuts-and-bolts!

I was taught I picked my parents both at home and at church. My batshitcrazy mother would tell us how lucky we were that picked her. She would tell us how grateful we should be to her and how much we owed her.

The first time I heard someone say something like "I didn't choose to be born, my parents owe me for bringing me into this world" I was absolutely shocked.

BTW, only an insane masochist would have chosen my parents.

"Choosing parents in the preexistence" has got to be one of the most pernicious mindf***ing POS beliefs in the entire POS belief system. Even Joseph Fielding Smith rejected it (for the most part; he allowed for the possibility "in some instances," I imagine his own delightsome lineage). However, I do recall reading an address or article by an empty-suit 1Q70 to the effect that yes, we did do just that. I couldn't find it on lds.org and I'll be damned if I’m going to comb through 20 years of Ensign back issues to find it.

It's so bad because it places the blame for an abusive upbringing squarely on the victim; it could have all been avoided if the person had simply chosen better parents. Stupid victim! It also breeds some of the smug arrogance and lack of empathy observed among upper-income TBMs, since *they* were able to choose so much more wisely than the rest of us. (Mitt, for example.)

Another reason it's terrible is on the parental side. If you were able to choose your parents in God's Happy Home, then the reverse must also be true, that the parents chose their children. Meaning that the parents of, say, Adolf Hitler or Vlad the Impaler freely picked them out. They must be so proud of themselves.

Further, in order to make an informed choice, you have to have information. So children born in an abusive home had to have known it would be abusive because Mr. God would have been aware of it, and Mr. God is alleged to be perfectly fair and just. Therefore, the prospective parents would themselves have been aware that they would be providing an abusive home. Seriously, who would voluntarily agree to become parents, knowing in advance that they would deliberately hurt their children? It's sick.

Joseph Fielding Smith, The Way to Perfection, p. 46 (quoting Joseph F. Smith):
"I believe that our Savior possessed a foreknowledge of all the vicissitudes through which He would have to pass in the mortal tabernacle. If Christ knew beforehand, so did we."

So if a preexistent spirit thingy knows that its dad is going to molest it, then it follows that the dad in turn must know that he is going to molest his child. You can't have one without the other. By this doctrine, Holocaust victims knew they would die at the hands of the Nazis. Therefore, Hitler knew, before he was born, that he would be responsible for the deaths of millions. If I knew something like that beforehand, no f***ing way would I ever agree to be born.

But, of course, it's ridiculous. If you could choose your mortal parents and vice versa, then that implies mom & dad *are going to have to meet etc.* regardless of circumstances, free will or anything else. "Hey, male-gendered spirit thingy, I want you for my dad! Hey, female-gendered spirit thingy, you can be my mom!" "Sounds good to us, other spirit thingy! FYI, Mitt's future parents are over there, don't you want to go with them instead?" "Naw, I'm good. Thanks, My Future Parents! No take backs!"

I predict... in the name of CheeseandCrackers... this teaching/belief will be 99% 'Down the Memory Hole' in another 5 years, mostly repeated by grand-parents & fundys.

amen.

Why would anyone volunteer to be born to a sweetheart of a father (who unfortunately died at age 42 of a hereditary illness that he passed on to both me and to his grandson) and an abusive WITCH of a mother???

No, I wouldn't have opted for that one even if somebody held a gun to my head.

Having recently read Michael Newton's 'Journey of Souls' and 'Destiny of Souls', I feel obliged by my freshly polished Savior Complex to inject some missing perspective into this sadly misguided thread, as follows:

(This is all stuff I had never heard before reading MN, btw. And this is all in my own words recalled from MN's books. None of this is quoted verbatim from MN, so it's all through my filter.)

1. Not only do we choose our parents in the Life Between Lives, but we get some high powered consultation/suggestions from ultra wise souls who have advanced to the point they no longer incarnate on Earth any more. We are offered choices from a couple of scenarios carefully selected for where we are individually in our spiritual growth path. We get to preview some video clips from the Life Menu and then choose. We can also decide not to incarnate, but most souls are eager for another shot at Earth life and a new set of challenges and learning experiences designed to build character and test core values, etc.

2. Not only do we choose our parents, but we also choose what kind of human body we will occupy around the 4th month of gestation, usually. Genes, birth defects and everything. (MN did not say this, but the implication suggests that which sperm wins the race to conception may not be entirely accidental.)

3. In the LBL, souls fully understand that the purpose of Earth is not to be born to kind and loving parents and live happily ever after. The smooth and trouble free life is considered 'coasting' because we don't learn very much from a lifetime of happiness.

4. Souls in the LBL are completely free of the negative effects of their human brains that died when their last human body kicked the bucket. Souls do not possess any survival instinct whatsoever because they are immortal, eternal and never die and are always loved unconditionally and taken care of in the Spirit World. Always and forever. The self-centered human ego and its survival instinct, lust for gain and power over others, most/all of the negative human motivations and behaviors are generated within the human brain. The challenge for a soul entering a human body with all this earthbound baggage is to merge with the human brain to form an integrated human being personality. This can be very challenging for the soul based on the condition and temperament of the human brain and its genetic inheritance. The personality and proclivities, talents, deficits, etc. are a composite of the eternal soul's spiritual development and the human brain's genetic inheritance. (It's way more complicated than I imagined, btw. I always thought the soul was THE life force in the body, but it's not. The body can survive without the soul inside. In fact, when we sleep, the soul can go somewhere else while we are unconscious, and we don't die. This I did not know.)

5. Free will is preserved, believe it or not. The soul is the higher part of the persona responsible for navigating life within the body it chose for the current ride. The challenge is to exercise control over the dark side of the human psyche and make non-destructive choices, particularly when the going gets tough. It's the major life events that test the mettle of the soul who gets to decide whether to chose the difficult high road or cave and take the easier, less courageous path.

6. Some or many of the painful experiences in life are karmic consequences of poor choices in prior lives. Switching roles from abuser to abusee is a great way to administer a wake up call to a soul in need of learning to make wiser choices.

7. In the Spirit World, souls are transparent to each other. Lying and deception are not possible because souls naturally see, feel and understand everything about each other when souls interact. There is also no shame, guilt or judgment like here on earth. If a soul made some bad choices on earth, they will acknowledge what happened and likely resolve to get it right next time. Souls can take as many lifetimes as needed to get past a difficult issue in their spiritual health. When you have virtual eternity to get it right, there's way less pressure.

8. Every soul belongs to a "soul group" or eternal family of souls, usually numbering no more than to 20 or so. Soul group members are usually at similar levels of accomplishment along the spiritual growth path. Members of one's soul group often incarnate as close relatives or spouses, lovers, best friends, worst enemies, etc. In other words, significant people in each others' lives.

9. When a human dies, the soul returns to the soul group for happy, loving reunions and discussion about how it went on Earth. Earth life is a temporary physical and dense experience designed as a school for soul development.

10. Each soul has a soul guide who watches over the Earth life and maybe has some influence, or not. Remember that avoiding pain, suffering and tragedy is usually what the soul signed up for, not something to be avoided.

11. Souls are able to divide or split their soul energy and not send ALL of their energy to Earth to dwell inside the human body. Most souls leave around 10% of their soul energy in the Spirit World. In other words, "if a soul could be two places at one time, I'd be with (inside) you ... and back home in the Spirit World at the same time. [Sorry about lapsing into song there.] It's also possible for a soul to split 45-45-10 or something like that and live TWO lives on Earth at the same time. This is not usually attempted twice (too challenging).

I could go on and on sharing more and more of what MN's hypnosis subjects shared with him during LBL regressions. The information is beyond fascinating. It's far better than any SciFi you've ever heard of, because there is a non-zero possibility that the information about Life Between Lives is not fiction.

Here is the big oversight/presumption happening on this thread:

I believe that it is an error to presume that your view of reality from your human brain crawling around on Earth is the same view you had or will have as your soul self in the Spirit World between lives. This is not hard to understand. Imagine that you are having a troubling dream while asleep. In the dream, everything seems and feels real and you experience an array of emotions depending on what's happening in the dream. When you wake up, are you stuck in the same mind set and emotions from your dream? Why not? Duh. You woke up! When you wake up, you might say, "Geeze! I'm glad that was only a dream and I wasn't walking around completely naked at work again."

Row, row, row your boat,
Gently down the stream,
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
Life is but a dream.

Dying is waking up. Not complicated. When you wake up, the pain and suffering stops, unless you really screwed up badly, in which case you might need some spiritual first aid for a while to get your damaged soul put back together again. No matter what happens on Earth, there's competent and experienced help at the ready if you need it after you die.

I say these things in the name of my cat, Mr. Pi, who knows way more about everything than I do.

Humility means you never have to say you know anything or know for sure that something is BS. I think Michael Newton's books are worth reading ... if for nothing else than the sheer entertainment value. On the other hand, what if it's not all BS?

I expect strongly polarized responses to this post, mostly rotten tomatoes. Bring it on!

i tend to agree with most of this ...

Absolutely fascinating beyondashadow. Similar thinking in some way to a book I read by Deepak Chopra which I had to stop reading because the "human brain part of me" did not want it to be true. His hypothesis started to bring on my claustrophobia for some reason which fosters panic attacks for me once in a while.

I am very impressed that you were able to recall all of that and spell it out so clearly at your advanced age. (That was the soul part of me talking.)

I find this thinking upsetting because the procuring of this type of information under hypnosis does lend an air of possibility that it could carry veracity, and the atheist part of me sometimes looks forward to "it" all being completely over. Then I remember all the damage done by hypnotists getting people to remember things that never happened and I really wonder.

But in the end, did anyone ever mention an end purpose? What is the point of it all?

I want a CK. Just not the Mormon version of it.

Thanks though, because this all makes way more sense than pre-existent spirits choosing teams.

Thanks for your comments, blueorchid.

You wrote:

> I find this thinking upsetting because the procuring of this
> type of information under hypnosis does lend an air of
> possibility that it could carry veracity, and the atheist part
> of me sometimes looks forward to "it" all being completely
> over. Then I remember all the damage done by hypnotists getting
> people to remember things that never happened and I really wonder.

> But in the end, did anyone ever mention an end purpose? What is the point of it all?

I am currently reading MN's textbook explaining his LBL regression process in great detail.

Life Between Lives: Hypnotherapy for Spiritual Regression
http://www.amazon.com/Life-Between-Lives-Hypnotherapy-Regression/dp/0738704652/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1423337483&sr=1-5&keywords=michael+newton

He is totally aware of the possibility for the conscious mind to contaminate the information from the subject. He is sensitive to detecting if/when this happens and then takes corrective measures.

Examples I just read this morning:

After regression to past life: Where are you? I'm in Atlantis. Tell me more. Oh, I'm on an island ... it's not Atlantis.

And there's what MN calls Famous Person Syndrome. Of his three clients who claimed to be Marilyn Monroe, one of them finally disclosed she was actually Marilyn's housekeeper.

My point is that MN seems quite rigorous about sensing when his subjects are making up stuff and when they are in deep trance where their conscious mind is not interfering with the observations.

Regarding purpose for Earth life, this is an overarching, recurrent theme in virtually all of the LBL regressions. Souls are created as 'baby souls' with no experience, knowledge or wisdom and get nurtured and taught by 'mother souls' until they are 'grown up' enough to start incarnating on Earth. The spiritual education of souls is a combination of Spirit World learning and physical life on the planet. Turns out that human experience on the planet including amnesic disconnection from awareness of the immortal soul (who you really are) is a fast track to spiritual growth. For this reason, souls are eager for another ride on the pale blue dot and keep returning over and over, often times selecting difficult, if not brutal circumstances to challenge their mettle in a warm-to-hot refiner's fire.

In short, the purpose of Earth life is to accelerate the spiritual education and maturation of soul entities. Many/most souls to not want to waste time with the "easy class." Just like school, you learn the most when you challenge yourself with difficult classes.

Remember the sense of relief when your finals were finally over and you got to relax for a while? The final is death. Class over. Then your soul returns home where all the shame, guilt, pain, suffering drops away and you engage in a loving retrospective with help from your soul group, your guide, and eventually with a group of wise counselors who help you get the most from your latest turn on Earth.

You might hang around in the Spirit World for a while. The kinds of things you can do for education and entertainment in the Spirit world totally boggle the mind ... beyond your wildest dreams. Even though you don't have a dense physical body, it's possible to manipulate energy that 'conjures up' stuff that seems almost physical. It's not all wispy clouds and fog everywhere at all. The Spirit World is a fabulous, amazing place. It is our true home, and it is wonderful.

After a while, the soul is ready to prepare for another incarnation, unless it has advanced to the point of graduating from Earth class altogether. Advanced souls counsel and guide souls still on the reincarnation wheel.

My opinion is that Michael Newton is a serious researcher who makes a concerted effort to clean his data and discard any BS he detects. In other words, I have high confidence that MN's data is real, and that his observations about the Spirit World through the psyches of his subjects deserve our attention.

If you want to compare MN with a very questionable opportunist, check out Eben Alexander, MD, who was unconscious for a week and claims to have visited the Spirit World as a dot on a butterfly wing. Read the * one star reviews on amazon for his popular book 'Proof of Heaven" on the NYT Best Seller list for 97 weeks. The public seems to love him. His experience is a sample of n=1. MN's information is based on N=7,000+

I listened to a Eben Alexander talk last night and decided not to spend any more time on him. He's has three malpractice lawsuits with no hospital privileges since 2007. He lacks humility and is very full of himself. His NDE could have been a hallucination. (Sounds like an acid trip.) He claims his brain was offline for 7 days, but his medical team said he looked like he was hallucinating. His book isn't proof of anything, but it's making a nice life for him now that his medical practice is trashed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2015 03:40PM by beyondashadow.

Duplicate post deleted. See above.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2015 02:22PM by beyondashadow.

It's a long held tenet. I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a hymn about it.

Are you saying the morg doesn't teach that these days?

Like everything else that makes up this morass we call Mormonism, it is a control mechanism to make children do what their parents tell them. It rears its ugly head when it is useful, and vanishes like a f@rt in a windstorm when it is not needed.

Mine are decent people, but definitely have flaws. I had a good childhood and I'm certainly not a candidate for child welfare, but they had some areas of improvement. As grandparents, it's even more obvious where their flaws are.

They married too young, married someone they had dated through HS, and then had kids too young. They had too many kids, which stressed my mom out with childcare and my dad out with money. By the time the youngest was a teen, they were burnt out and tired of each other. They were very strict with me, but could hardly be bothered with my youngest brother. They divorced a year after he left for college, and we all sighed with relief

My dad doesn't seem to like children, and I think he had them out of duty. He is even awkward around his grandchildren. I asked him why he had kids and he said, "your mom wanted them". I know he cares about our welfare, but his main goal was to make us independent, not nurtured.

Meanwhile, my mom can barely take care of herself. She has been depressed for about 20 years and now that has taken a toll on her health. She refused counseling, even after the Bishop told her she needed it and he would pay for it. She just acted incensed and refused to go. Talking to her is reliving everything everyone has ever done wrong to her, and most of that is just not living up to her expectations of what they should have done for her.

Like I said, not a Wednesday's Child tale, but I've seen better.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2015 10:59AM by axeldc.

And people tell me all the time that the reason I married my "ex" is because these kids were meant to be our's, that I needed to do this. I'm like???? Especially just after my ex left and life was living hell, I didn't want him to be their dad. I actually thanked him for leaving and sinning since now they wouldn't be his in the next life. I'm a mean bitch when I've been hurt.

I just had someone tell me this morning in an e-mail that my marriage was meant to be because these kids were supposed to be his and mine. Oh, okay.

So, yes, they have ALWAYS taught it.

I didn't always like my own parents. They could be crazy, but now that I'm a parent, I'm really glad I had the parents I did. They were far from perfect, but I never questioned if they loved me. I miss them every day. I actually just looked at my dad's obituary on line because I needed to find a date. It is always very difficult to deal with the fact they are gone. I sure could use them right now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2015 10:41AM by cl2.

Only heard it at home. It was one of those "our family is special" thing that were occassionally mentioned to other members as a kind of bragging so presumably it wasn't some universal thing. There is a similar idea that I read in some faith-promoting book that in general all of us had chosen some particular challenges or tasks in our life to come.

The problem with these ideas, even though they don't necessarily map out your entire earthly existence in advance, is that it completely negates free will. Had my grandmother had an abortion my mother wouldn't exist to meet my dad and therefore I wouldn't exist e.t.c. Someone murders your great great great grandfather before he has made any babies and you couldn't possibly exist, or you might have been born with another ethnicity e.t.c. I'm not sure even Kalvin would go this far in upholding predestination.

As a kid in the church, I remember hearing that we chose our parents in the pre-existence. That raised a HUGE red flag for me at that time. Even at a young age I knew there was NO fucking way I would have voluntarily chosen my parents. No way!!

I remember being taught that as a kid...and thinking WTF??? My existence is the result of a tryst between a 14 year old school girl and her much older boyfriend out behind the barn. When I was born I was immediately put up for adoption. Two weeks later a farmer and his wife chose me from a nursery full of babies at a Salvation Army maternity hospital for unwed mothers in Calgary. So the chances of me "choosing" my parents in the pre-existence is the longest fucking odds Las Vegas ever put up.....so it's all BULLSHIT!!!

Ron burr

I was told in my patriarchal blessing that I chose my parents in the preexistence. We were very close and loved each other dearly; I think I still believe it.