Do you think TSCC includes the Excommunicated members in their membership number reports like they do those who resigned or do you think the excommunicated ones are completely removed from their statistics?

I cynically believe that they probably do not get deleted.

cludgie Wrote:
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> I cynically believe that they probably do not get
> deleted.

I agree (cynic = skeptic......ha).

My theory is based on their stated belief that all lost lambs will eventually find their way back into the boat. Hence, they probably still count them.

A year or so after death, the proxies reinstate membership and other "blessings" in the temple. They use the same wording as in other dead rites but add "who was excommunicated" to the official wording.

I printed this from the official Mormon website years ago. It has since been removed.

Yes, I do. Once on the records always on the records, even if name 'removed'. I am sure they just do a record count and remove 'deaths' at most.

If you are put on probation, disfellowshipped, or excommunicated you remain in their database. This information is also retained, in detail, if people come back into full fellowship -- this includes all the details of the 'infraction' and 'sin recounted during resolution' that the clerk records from the proceedings and sends back to CHQ. There is none of this "as if it never happened" bullshit. For example, if you were put on probation as a teenager for sexual sin and then brought back into fellowship this would all be recorded, and if you were say a year later apply to one of the BYU's your college application would be automatically flagged, for further review, when your application was entered into the system. Result, you'd be toast on admittance.

It is illustrations like the above, which I know for a fact, that lead to my conjecture that everyone regardless of status remains on the church records. Ockham's Razor predicts that the path of least resistance is true. It is easiest to just do a simple 'count of the membership records' rather than do the additional steps to exclude any legitimate exceptions. Plus the fact that TSCC 'brethren' make decisions with 'guile' would suggest that they are likely to willfully deceive on this item.

Plus there are a lot of deceased 'inactive members' (pun kinda intended) that are on records at local level. Someone needs to look for them and look for them (like to driving out to their house, finding relatives to call, etc.) and if they don't establish with certainty they are dead (date of death at least-I forget if location) and not just moved. If inactive member not found, even if like 99 years old, you send the record back to SLC, then they bump it back to some other sorry ward clerk to repeat the process. Kinda like counting votes in some states (sorry for political reference, could not help myself).

So yes, I believe they count excommunicated members. I mean, there is in their mind you will come to accept "their twisted truth" and come back.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2015 08:34AM by mannaz.

I am in their database as an excommunicated person, however, my membership number has been coded for excommunication (the last few digits have been changed to annotate this). The numbers prior to this have not been changed.

But I am not counted as a "member" of the church. Yes, the records of my excommunication are available should a bishop or stake president request a copy of them if I ever decide to step foot into a local ward building and request readmission which is VERY HIGHLY unlikely!

Did TSCC change their official membership number from 15,000,000 to 14,999,999 today after they ex'd Dehlin?

No?

There's your answer :)

Hahaha, Good point!

in the COB showing the membership numbers as the records come in from the missionaries?

Allow me to dare to offer a different opinion. :-) I do think they keep "records" of everyone who has every been a Mormon and including some who never were. They keep everything. Your line in the database is forever assured with good disaster recovery procedures in place to make sure it is never lost.

If someone tries to return to Church, his whole history will still be available. His callings, any Bishop's notes, dates of ordinances, etc...that will all be kept. somewhere.

However, I do not think that they count excommunicated Mormons or those who have had their name removed are included in the total membership count. At the ward and stake level they don't. The membership numbers of ward and stake submitted to salt lake do not include those who have been excommunicated. Do not include those who have had their name removed. So, I would suspect at the aggregate level, they are not included.

That being said, I also believe that the church plays very loose with its statistics. I've seen the published numbers, done the math and at the macro level at least...I believe they play with the numbers in some manner to make sure they are still showing some growth. So whether the ex-mo names are included in total membership stats or not is a moot point since they will mess with the numbers anyway.