Hate to say it guys but this argument is going nowhere. It keeps flaring up on here and it is getting old.

I come here to read about the LDS gossip, discuss LDS issues, and the decline of mormonism, as well as the wit evidenced by some posters.

This Atheist Theist divide is both divisive and pointless IMO.

There will be no proof and no conclusion - it's worse than bashing with TBMs.

You may disagree but for me it is distracting and not helping our common cause.

I disagree.

Old or not, productive or not, liked or not, pointless or not, etc or not, posters should post what they feel they need to post and that's that.

There are all kinds of posts on LDSinc, gossip, issues, decline of mormonism or what you will. And there are other kinds of posts, too. There are lots of posts and the board moves fast and so there are lots of new posts as well. There are all kinds of people here occupying all kinds of places along the line of recovery and there are all kinds of people here that weren't even mormon and aren't even in recovery. As Orwell said, it takes all kinds of people to make a world, and I think the same applies to the making of an interesting Bulletin Board.

The age old reply still holds: if you don't like it, don't click it.

(And I'm glad you posted. Posts complaining about other posts have a place, too. Only the moderators can say with finality what posts haven't a place.)

Cheers. Enjoy.

Human

Best not start a new thread on that topic then. Oopsie, too late.

No, I'm not sick of this debate. Or any other.
Debate, discussion, criticism -- these are how we hash out the values of ideas in public forums. They're valuable and useful.

If you don't like the topic, don't view those threads.
It's not that hard.
I mean, you do know that other people might not have the same reasons for coming here as you, don't you?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2015 03:28PM by ificouldhietokolob.

I get sick of it too at times. There's alot of dead horses getting beaten to death from my perspective. This is one of them. But you have to remember and appreciate that for many posters, especially those who haven't been around here for years and years, this 'conflict'/debate/topic/whatever you want to call it is new and/or relevant. The horse is still alive and ready for some new abuse, in fact the horse is immortal. That is what comes with the territory in a world where the thinking does NOT end when the 'prophet' has spoken.

Oh, wow, that was a good belly laugh. Thank you.

I was going to make the mundane comment that no, this discussion will never end, but saying the horse is immortal is so much more colourful. I am going to shamelessly steal that comment and hope you don't mind. :)

I am not tired of this debate,but I am sick ofnothers such as the drinking threads, the long windednarguments over the definition of atheist and many others. I ignore them. Problem solved.

I am so over all the athiest threads. Personally I am gettibg bored of coming here and skipping all those threads. I feel other more interesting (to me) threads get crowded out by the athiest debates.

I really wish this place had different topic boards,but I guess those are too much work to moderate?

It's beginning to feel like a temple baptism. Over and over, it never ends. It's like sorting through junk mail. You've seen it so many times you no longer bother to look.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2015 08:16PM by madalice.

But it's an important discussion. Even though it might seem like nobody is influencing anyone else, the free market of ideas DOES make a difference to at least some people. That particular discussion is not that relevant to me anymore, so I'm less likely to comment or participate in those threads.

However, when I first left the church, these debates really helped me hash out my thoughts and beliefs. Some of the most strident and blunt atheists on the board (anyone remember Brian B?) really helped me. I'll always be grateful for his input.

I think if people need to discuss any part of their faith, or non-faith, they should go for it. But I would like it even better if people would avoid personal insults against people who don't agree with them.

I, for one, would like to see more discussion about latter-day Pirates and their connection to global warming...

My personal theory is that all the atheism threads are started by members of ChurchCo to crowd out discussion of mormonism.

anon brit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My personal theory is that all the atheism threads
> are started by members of ChurchCo to crowd out
> discussion of mormonism.

I can debunk your theory. I've started one (and I'm not ChurchCo). Tal Bachman has started several (and he's not ChurchCo). Steve Benson has started several (and he's certainly not Church Co). Therefore your claim that all the atheism threads are stared by members of ChurchCo is demonstrably false.

That doesn't mean *some* weren't started that way, of course :)

I believe I'm not ChurchCo but maybe what I think is my waking life is really a dream and in my real waking life which is my dreams I'm really a ChurchCo mole.

yes the discussion is indeed a long one, evidently. Worthwhile, but long.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2015 07:10PM by anonuk.

Yeah, to me, the theism/atheism obssession is beside the point.

To me, the problem with Mormonism is the degree to which it is a totalist group. For me, it's about totalitarianism vs. democracy, not theism vs. atheism. It's about Orwell.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2015 05:01PM by 2+2=4.

They are started by people for a variety of reasons, "hey! Look! Look at what **I** found out!" being one.

They have only recently discovered atheism (after years of being in a cult) and have to share the information with everyone. ;o))

Good grief.....

why are people so afraid to use their real screen names here

to voice an opinion about it?

I don't mind a good argument between Atheists and Thiests,

that is how people learn things that they might not have

known before'but this latest batch of discussions seem to

be neither intelligent or interesting... just the same old

people and their semantic scrambles trying to look good.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2015 04:56PM by saucie.

There's another component to the discussion I'm interested in besides who is right - something the lines of how to operate in a world of varying ideas. There are some posters saying things I'm interested in hearing more about.

I think we should all have a debate about what we want to debate about.

I'm firmly on the side of don't care ism.....

Ron Burr

I'm with Ron. Carry on. You're not bothering me. I don't care really.

Of debate I do not tire. Of mudslinging I thoroughly object.

'Twas that latter to which I objected when I posted this observation and began my vacation:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1509951,1509951#msg-1509951

Some would now say, "So, what the hell are you doing? Are you on vacation or not?"

Yes. And Yes.

Clearly not :)

In my initial statement of intent, I did warn I might peek 'n' post while I tend to my personal business of "vacation". So :P

Take care, kolobian! I love your style!

So often, it seems that reponses to posts are personal criticism clothed in mockery. Seems that we forget that we are all on the same team and there needn't be a pecking order. Seems to me that everyone is sorting out ideas and rebuilding the psyche. Here are some thoughts that I like about criticism. What do you think?

I much prefer the sharpest criticism of a single intelligent man to the thoughtless approval of the masses.

Johannes Kepler

Watch out for the joy-stealers: gossip, criticism, complaining, faultfinding, and a negative, judgmental attitude.

Joyce Meyer

Three things in human life are important. The first is to be kind. The second is to be kind. And the third is to be kind.

Henry James

I am sick of it. Every bit as much as I am sick of fighting for my rights as a gay man.

It is not an intellectual debate that I entered lightly, and that has no consequences.

If there has been a non-theistic based attack on me as a gay man, I do not recall ever seeing it. The overwhelming bulk of the attack on my rights as a gay has come from theist or theistic institutions.

The attacks on me are not limited to my being gay. On a daily basis I am forced to handle over leaflets proclaiming theistic slogans in order to have access to goods and services. I live in fear of a theistic motivated attack like those done on 9-11. These attacks go all the way back to the earliest memories of my childhood.

As I have said in in another thread, I did not hold anything against theists or theism until I was 35. By that time I had been attacked by theists repeatedly all my life for being atheist and being gay. Virtually always because of theism and theisisticly installed fear.

All that time I never fought back. Then I finally had enough of being the victim and started fighting back.

Yes, I am sick of fighting, but I am fighting from my life. Yes, I am sick of fighting for my life. I continue the fight because it is a fight for my life.

I will not stop fighting because I am sick of fighting for my life and I will certainly not stop because you, lilburne, or anyone else is sick of it.

I did not want this fight, I did not start this fight, but I now will engage in fighting, in self defense, until the fight is over.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2015 08:50PM by MJ.

Religions that have respect for the autonomy of the individual do function in a way that allows them to change in a healthy way. Faster than the secular government does:


http://downloads.elca.org/html/jle/www.elca.org/what-we-believe/social-issues/the-institutional-dilemma-of-princi2e489019.htm

Lilburne - I honestly do understand your sentiments.

One problem I see is that a number of posters here regularly and loudly promote a uniquely intolerant version of atheism (which includes regularly expressions of snarky disdain toward any form of theism), to the point where, if left unchallenged, it would transform the "Recovery from Mormonism" board into the "Recovery from Mormonism AND Bash Anything Besides My Own Particular Brand of Atheism Board".

By the way, I myself have no theist beliefs at all, but I see no reason why any empirically baseless assertions of any kind (regardless of whether they're theist or atheist in nature) should form an RFM board orthodoxy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2015 09:20PM by Tal Bachman.