Romantic love that attracts two people together seems based on lots of assumptions and efforts to make up for what we lack in our selves. Some people say that romantic love is very similar to belief in God in that it is how we emotionally strive to complete ourselves and identity.

Given that many of us think that God is bunk, along with most of the fairy tales we've discarded, what's left of romantic love?

Is it replaced by pragmatism? Or is romance not something the existential or nihilistic post Mormon psyche is really cut out for?

I think it's mostly about (wait for it) Attitude.


to me, a great relationship can be 'boiled down' to phrases, catch-words. Fair or not? who knows.


a Healthy, Loving relationship is around Skills & Desires, or so it seems to me.

'Love' is both a Goal & a Journey; if anyone cares, I'll send my (long) list of sayings, quotes about love & relationships, they've helped me resolve my life losses of love, bonding, caring-sharing.

For me, the morg was a crutch.


While I don't 'blame' my <never-mo> parents, they could have done better (and so could their parents, etc)

fwiw, I don't believe mormons know understand romantic love, because

-EVERYTHING in mormonism is conditional
-no one's Ever good enough (Perfectionist Syndrome)
-which in turn encourages hypocrisy
-obedience has been craftily substituted by being touted as a necessary prerequisite, pre-curser to love.
- in order for 'leaders' to lead, they have to assume a Royalty, holier-than-thou attitude, presentation.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2015 02:37AM by GNPE.

Maybe it's all hormones, neurons, receptors and pipe dreams?

I've always wanted to be in love. My parents moved to Las Vegas when I was eight. I remember my new bedroom, how big it was compared to my former bedroom. And I remember being afraid, in the middle of the night, of monsters under the bed. And cowering under the blankets, hoping that my belief that if the monsters couldn't see me, they'd leave me alone, was true.

And I vividly recall, ages 8, 9 and 10, to having the same sort of day dream as I was falling asleep. And in the morning, too. I'd lay there and let the day dream run it's course.

I'd be walking with a girl... I think she was a girl I'd known in third grade. No name comes to mind now and it's been so long that I can't remember what she looked like.

The crux of the dream was that we would fall into a long shaft, and as we were falling, out of sight of each other, my clothes would come off and I'd be left wearing bathing trunks. When I splashed into a pool of water, she'd already be in a row boat and I'd climb in and find that she was in a bathing suit.

There was absolutely no sex involved; I didn't even know what sex was. I also didn't know what masturbation was, but like most boys, as I'm given to understand, I appreciated my penis. The rest of the dream would play out with us being on a river and watching the country side pass by. We'd be sitting side by side... The attraction of the dream was being with a girl my age, very close to her and intimate, but we'd just be passing the time.

Being an only child might have been an influence.

But it's definite that for as long as I can remember, I wanted a girl to sit beside me as we floated down the river of life. Later when I found out about sex, that just made the trip all the more exciting, but it was the companionship I wanted, more than I wanted the sex.

In the movie The Butcher's Wife, the hippy/spiritualist/covenish wife opines at one point that she misread the 'signs' and married the wrong man, and that Jeff Daniels was the right man, and that he was her "split apart." Meaning they'd been fused together before this life, and birth had split them apart and they were looking for each other.

Having dropped both the notion of both pre & post lives, I could not grasp that as a reliable concept, but it sure was tempting.

I shan't burden you with my travails (most of which were of my doing), but I shall tell you that I found true love. I wanted it, I believed in it and I've found it. We definitely are not 'split aparts' but we now share the same goal, to nurture what we've planted and seen sprout. We're doing a good job (I supply all the fertilizer) and it continues to grow.

And yes, I can agree with cynics that it may all be delusional, but if the two of us believe it, and live it, who the hell cares what the cynics think? We're both rock solid atheists, but apparently atheists can have faith and believe in something that is based solely on faith.

I love you, baby!

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But it's definite that for as long as I can
> remember, I wanted a girl to sit beside me as we
> floated down the river of life. Later when I
> found out about sex, that just made the trip all
> the more exciting, but it was the companionship I
> wanted, more than I wanted the sex.
>
> In the movie The Butcher's Wife, the
> hippy/spiritualist/covenish wife opines at one
> point that she misread the 'signs' and married the
> wrong man, and that Jeff Daniels was the right
> man, and that he was her "split apart." Meaning
> they'd been fused together before this life, and
> birth had split them apart and they were looking
> for each other.
>
> Having dropped both the notion of both pre & post
> lives, I could not grasp that as a reliable
> concept, but it sure was tempting.
>
> I shan't burden you with my travails (most of
> which were of my doing), but I shall tell you that
> I found true love. I wanted it, I believed in it
> and I've found it. We definitely are not 'split
> aparts' but we now share the same goal, to nurture
> what we've planted and seen sprout. We're doing a
> good job (I supply all the fertilizer) and it
> continues to grow.
>
> And yes, I can agree with cynics that it may all
> be delusional, but if the two of us believe it,
> and live it, who the hell cares what the cynics
> think? We're both rock solid atheists, but
> apparently atheists can have faith and believe in
> something that is based solely on faith.
>
> I love you, baby!


This is beautiful, elderolddog.

I am so glad that both of you found each other.

:)

That was a beautiful story of a dream come true.

I loved it.

Has your heart been trampled?

My heart has been through the wringer-last year...
Magic 8 Ball says:
Remain hopeful

Chemistry is important, but so is: timing, similar goals-including finance & where to live, authentic character, trust, common sense/intelligence, world view, laughter/ability to relax-music, empathy, patience with one another...

I remain hopeful that my co-fish is swimming out there somewhere, and we will eventually bump into each other.


}«<})«©> <©»)}>»€

(Fish)

Ex-Sister Sinful Shoulders Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I remain hopeful that my co-fish is swimming out
> there somewhere, and we will eventually bump into
> each other.

And then happily swim together...side by side (as elderolddog talked about)...for the rest of your lives.

:)

Mmmmmmmmmmm

Yes, yes I do.

romantic love is just a chemical reaction in the brain produced initially by smelling someone's pheromones and subconsciously liking it. From this start trust and respect either grows and the 'romance' continues, or nothing else grows and any romantic feelings (initial liking of smells) fade.

What about "falling in love" over Los Interwebbies?

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What about "falling in love" over Los
> Interwebbies?


that's just being in love with the idea of being in love, which in itself is a lovely feeling, but it is just an escape from reality. I met many people in the flesh after conversing online and if the 'chemistry' (ie pheromones) isn't there then there is no continuation of any romantic notions. I did, however, meet my hubby online, so it is possible.

evidence of attraction based on smells:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_matchmaking

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_odor_and_subconscious_human_sexual_attraction




Previous research indicates that the scent of developmental stability (low fluctuating asymmetry, FA) is attractive to women who are fertile (at high-conception risk points in their menstrual cycles), but not to other women or men. Prior research also indicates that the scent of dissimilarity in major histocompatibility complex (MHC) genes may play a role in human mate choice. We studied the scent attractiveness to the opposite sex of t-shirts worn for 2 nights' sleep. Our results indicate that the two olfactory systems are independent. We repeated previous results from studies of the scent of symmetry. We repeated previous results from MHC research in part; men, but not women, showed a preference for t-shirts with the scent of MHC dissimilarity. Women's scent ratings of t-shirts were uncorrelated with the wearer's MHC dissimilarity and allele frequency, but positively correlated with the wearer's MHC heterozygosity. Fertile women did not exhibit any MHC trait preferences. Women's preference for the scent of men who were heterozygous for MHC alleles may be stronger in women who are at infertile cycle points. Men preferred the scent of common MHC alleles, which may function to avoid mates with rare alleles that exhibit gestational drive. Men also preferred the scent of women at fertile cycle points. The scent of facially attractive women, but not men, was preferred. Neither FA nor facial attractiveness in either sex correlated with MHC dissimilarity to others, MHC heterozygosity, or MHC allelic rarity.

http://beheco.oxfordjournals.org/content/14/5/668.full

apparently it affects fertile women more than non-fertile women and men


edit: oops, wrong place - sorry bout that!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2015 10:21AM by anonuk.

And just what is that?

I'd be interested in reading the evidence for human pheromones because I don't think any has been found...

Tom in Paris

I can't help myself. I love!

I used to. Then I met a mormon. Now I wish he would just go away.

Yes. Been in romantic love with my wife for 26 years. :o))

No one would ask that question if they had ever fallen deeply, madly, helplessly in love.

That craving of the soul and the flesh that drives the world, fawns stupidity and heroics all at the same time? That feeling that being across the room from each other is an unbearable and cruel separation? If that's only chemistry, then it's my drug of choice. I'll mainline that any day.

It's still a lottery. The initial rush can either deepen and broaden or vaporize.

So no, it's not like a belief in God. Romantic love bursts out of nowhere, completely naturally, often when you aren't even looking.

Romantic love cannot be taught. You cannot choose to feel it.

God in comparison? The traditional idea of God, omniscient super being, is a concept that IS taught, that IS instilled, some say indoctrinated into the majority of us.

And Mormon Heavenly Father? All the time I tried desperately to believe, to even lie to myself and say I knew? Please, what ever romantic love is, it is infinitely more valuable, praiseworthy and of good report.

Like so many things in life it depends upon personal experience. When I met my DH we both fell hard for each other. We were 22 and 21 at the time. Lucky for us TSCC wasn't a complicating factor in our budding romance since I'd left a few years prior and DH was never Mormon. From the beginning, physical compatibility and chemistry knocked our socks off ;-)

Been in love with DH now for 25 years and feel lucky we found each other. Hasn't been a cakewalk all that time but getting past the things that almost destroyed the marriage made falling in love with each other all over again even sweeter than the first time. Secure vulnerability, respect, passion, tenderness and deep knowledge of the beloved over many years make romantic love spectacular but not like the fireworks of first romantic love. More like a steady, deep rhythm of gratitude, joy and respect for this fellow traveler whose generous heart never ceases to amaze me.

Again, I believe I'm incredibly lucky I found him at exactly the time I did, so naturally I'm a believer.

I've been in love a few times and still in love for the past 10 years with my SO. I highly recommend reading up on Sternberg's Triangular Theory of love to understand its components.

I don't believe in god, so I don't see the connection to love of god and romantic love. If anything, love of god would be more in the agape or phileo realm, IMO. (Possibly even the storge realm, depending on how you view god.)

I would explain further, but I need to go study for another class here soon and take some tests.

http://sweetheartsbakery.blogspot.com/2010/08/blog-post_31.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2015 10:43AM by Itzpapalotl.

Absolutely.

Mormons don't necessarily believe in romantic love. They believe that any man and woman that love Jesus Smith are compatible gods in embryo...no need to love each other...they grow closer to each other as they each grow closer to Jesus in their mystical love triangle.

Yeah, I do.

But I also believe in a solid foundation... I've known a lot of folks who had this wild passionate love and could barely keep their hands off of each other but couldn't get along out of bed... they didn't have the foundation of liking, trusting, and being a team. They couldn't laugh together. They were always ready to jump on the other for any perceived flaws, things done wrong, stupid mistakes, etc.

My husband and I decided long ago that life is too damn short and our home was going to be an Official Stress-Free Zone. The place to be for snuggles and loves and charging our batteries. If other folks don't agree, that's their right. They can run their marriages their way.

Some people insist our marriage must be in some kind dreadful trouble because we don't have fights; we go back and forth and disagree but shrug and love each other anyway. When folks say stuff like how bad we are- "But you HAVE to fight! It's not healthy to not fight!", we just smile and head for home.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2015 11:20AM by Doxi.

Count us part of the "we don't fight" contingent.

We DON'T---there isn't any reason for us to fight.

If either of us is low blood sugar, or totally exhausted, or something like that, we can get irritated...but even this is rare. (And we're really quick to say: "I'm sorry, I'm low blood sugar. I need to eat"...and then we get on with whatever-it-was that we were doing.)

I have read, right here on RfM, that many people consider fights between romantic partners normal relationship behavior...but I have NEVER been able to understand this.

Why would romantic parthers WANT to fight???

Why would anyone WANT to be with, or live with, someone they are incapable of living with without fighting???

There may be exceptions I don't understand, but my opinion is: If you are chronically fighting with someone, you are not in the right relationship for either of you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2015 11:41AM by tevai.

Thanx, Tevai!

My Loved One and I both have health issues; I'm afraid age is not improving either of us. All the more reason NOT to fight, we figure. And you are right on about the low blood sugar!

There is a couple I went to school with who were sweethearts from the time they were 13 and still very much in love. To me, it seems like one of the main things going on between them is gratitude. They really appreciate each other in every way and both feel so lucky to have the other. Actually - come to think of it, this is also a prime characteristic of happiness in life. If you are grateful more often than you are fearful, you are generally a happy person.

Yup. "Love conquers all" sure applies to us.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2015 11:57AM by Lethbridge Reprobate.

I used to years ago until I found out it was all a lie and a

bad dream and my reality came crashing to the rocks.


I prayed for someone to love me for years and nothing

good happened and I gave up .


Fast forward to now and I am in love with the most wonderful

man in the world and he is the most romantic man I have ever

met. He is like my knight in Shining armor, my dream lover.

He is everything I ever wanted and more than I could have

ever hoped for. So yes, I now believe in romantic love.

saucie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I used to years ago until I found out it was all a
> lie and a
>
> bad dream and my reality came crashing to the
> rocks.
>
>
> I prayed for someone to love me for years and
> nothing
>
> good happened and I gave up .
>
>
> Fast forward to now and I am in love with the
> most wonderful
>
> man in the world and he is the most romantic man
> I have ever
>
> met. He is like my knight in Shining armor, my
> dream lover.
>
> He is everything I ever wanted and more than I
> could have
>
> ever hoped for. So yes, I now believe in romantic
> love.


I have read so many wonderful, true life stories here on RfM over the years...and your story, saucie, is one of them.

Beautiful!!!

Thank you!!!

:)

Oh thank you so much tevai. I'm just so glad that I have that

story to tell.

:) :) :)

I don't *believe* in romantic love; I feel it, experience it.

To each his own, but for me I disagree with the premise.

Romantic love is without assumptions in that it is something that happens without thinking. You can say that our emotional life is filled with assumptions, yes, but only when you think about it. The emotions themselves, however, are beyond assumptions.

Romantic love doesn't calculate "efforts to make up for what we lack in our selves," or "strive to complete ourselves and identity." That is something perhaps a pragmatist would do, but I wouldn't call that love.

Human, ever a lover