Ever since I bowed out of the Church over 25 years ago, I've bounced back and forth between belief in God, Jesus, etc. and total disbelief. There are many reasons for it, including empirical questioning, but one of them is that anything that in some small way smacks of the kind of command and control I experienced in TSCC makes me run and hide. Is it just me?

I wouldn't say I flip between theism and atheism, but there are times when I think there could be a god. For the most part, I don't really care. I don't believe in Jesus or a loving father-type interventionist God. If there is a god, I have no clue what he/she/it is like, and I'm fine with that. Eternal sleep sounds more appealing than any kind of heaven I can imagine most of the time.

Only when my finger misses the a key.

No. I find myself solidly anchored in DON'T CAREISM. I honestly have no time or desire to ponder the existence or non existence of a deity.

Ron Burr

Nowadays I see theism and atheism as complementary. One is what you get from looking inward, the other you get from looking outward. It pays to look both ways.

If you pray for the impossible and the impossible happens, was it God that did it or was it the transcendent you? Is there a difference?

God is a poor communicator. Anything that seems to be used as an example of God listening tends to be the own person's bias into the matter.

'Celeste', that is an unusual name. You wouldn't be from Orem would you?

I knew a celeste..... from essex, post op M2F TS who had a same sex relationship with another post op M2F TS

but it's hardly a rare name

I have had a very long, slow journey from Theist to atheist

I guess that during that time I was always wavering between one point of view and another.

I dooooo miss being a Theist. I'll admit it. As Trevor McKendrick (The exmormon atheist Bible salesman) pointed out that it was like being Harry Potter in a world full of muggles. We had the magic priesthood, magic words, magic underwear, constant communication with the Devine, spiritual visitors, miracles raging from find lost keys to "help me" calls to save babies. I also missed the community of people who thought/acted like me.

Yet would I go back? Would I take the "blue pill" instead of the "red"? No, the TRUTH is more important to me and now I can't go back down that rabbit hole.

Am I happier? Yes. Do I sometimes miss the crutch or blaming all my woes on Satan? Yes.

But now when I shine the light of truth on the scriptures, the leaders, the principals of TSCC; I find those things that used to guide, comfort and enlighten only now hurt, anger and confuse me.

Example: The whole "Pioneer" days and stories of the handcarts and immigrants used to give me pride and belief that my ancestors were following their hearts and spirits to establish Christ's Kingdom. Now I know that the emigrants, especially those from the U.K. were lied to and were trapped once they had used up all of their funds to reach SLC to only find out they had been lied to about Polygamy, Leaders, true prophets, etc... They became physically, financially, emotionally, spiritually enslaved into something that was perverse and totally different than what they signed up for. The poor children were herded like sheep so they wouldn't slow down the handcart procession. Death, starvation, pain that was dealt could have been prevented and yet...it was all for a lie and a false painted store front on what the TSCC really was.

I don't waiver because my faith in God is too strong to deny it.

I've had divine intercession occur more than once in my life; which is why I know we're not alone on this planet and that there are unseen forces watching over us.

I won't be sharing them here however, because of those who are hostile to the idea of a loving God, or divine intercession.

My experiences were real enough that no one can convince me there is no God.

Admittedly, there was a time I was agnostic. But then life happened, and events turned my insights 180. I was all of 19 at the time. And have only been thankful ever since that I was blessed with a witness to the truth of divinity.

And several times since then too - Even as a child I had witnessed God's love looking out for me, but I went agnostic anyway after my parents divorced and my teenage years went into turmoil.

Now I just get through each day by giving thanks for one more.

I don't know what life is going to throw at me. But I know based on past experience God will see me through whatever happens.

Thanks amyjomeg. Haven't had the experience, but I lean that way for other reasons.

I have had too many experiences to doubt God/Source.

However, my God is not the Superman of the Bible ----- not all knowing, all powerful, etc. Or Earth and our evolution would have been more like the bible says and there would have been no stone age or age without internet!!!

I consider myself an agnostic atheist. I don't believe in Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha or any of the religious books or churches.

I don't know what I think about God. Maybe there is some sort of creator....or maybe not. But as I stand right now I don't really care all that much. I'm going to die one day, can't stop that. So meh.

I did a bit for the first 3-4 years after leaving the morg.
In the 30 years since then, no.

"god" is just a word people use to stand in for ignorance and wishful thinking. The majority of claimed "god" things humans believe in can be clearly shown by evidence to NOT exist. Those few that remain as not proven false have no supporting evidence of any kind, and so there's no rational reason to "believe" in them or assume they exist.

It was learning about claimed "god" things -- a comprehensive study of the world's religions, current and ancient -- that led me to those conclusions. I think early on I missed what I thought was "god" and the false security the idea gives, even though I didn't see any reason to think there was one, so I waffled a bit. But as I grew in learning about reality, and in trusting myself (something the morg *hates*), I let go of the need for comforting myths and hoping for things that clearly aren't real, and I went "full atheist." :)

There could be a "god" of some kind. There's no evidence of any such thing, but there could be one. If there is, though, it's not one that ever actually *does* anything -- so there's really no point concerning ourselves with it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2015 02:51PM by ificouldhietokolob.

My standards of proof are too high. No evidence == no gods, godesses, spirits, boogeymen or invisible floating teapots orbiting Mars. All have the same probability.

I'm a Christian of the Baptist persuasion. More then general theism, Christianity connects the dots between the ethereal and the material. Not always to my complete understanding or comfort, but enough to make sense for me.

There's a poster, "armtothetriangle," I heaven't noticed in quite a few months, apparently a Christian. He once said (paraphrase), "It's like TSCC's last, pernicious, "gotcha!" -- 'If you can't completely believe in my claims to absolute and final truth, then you won't be able to believe in God in any manner or form.'"

There's a lot of discussion on RfM about the hurts, wounds, and losses Mormonism inflicts. A spiritually hardened heart is a common one.

caffiend Wrote:
> There's a lot of discussion on RfM about the
> hurts, wounds, and losses Mormonism inflicts. A
> spiritually hardened heart is a common one.

If believing gives you some kind of hope or comfort, great. Enjoy.

I'd just like to point out that hearts are not the seat of thought or emotion or "spirituality" that the ancients ignorantly thought they were. They're pumps. So a "spiritually hardened heart" fits right into ancient ignorant proven-false myth.

I'm not an atheist because the mormon "god" claims are rather silly...I'm an atheist because they ALL are. :)

caffiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm a Christian of the Baptist persuasion. More
> then general theism, Christianity connects the
> dots between the ethereal and the material. Not
> always to my complete understanding or comfort,
> but enough to make sense for me.
>
> There's a poster, "armtothetriangle," I heaven't
> noticed in quite a few months, apparently a
> Christian. He once said (paraphrase), "It's like
> TSCC's last, pernicious, "gotcha!" -- 'If you
> can't completely believe in my claims to absolute
> and final truth, then you won't be able to believe
> in God in any manner or form.'"
>
> There's a lot of discussion on RfM about the
> hurts, wounds, and losses Mormonism inflicts. A
> spiritually hardened heart is a common one.

_____________

Good observation! Many ex-Mos become Agnostic, Atheist, or New Age. I wonder what the percentage are who leave that remain a believer of a Judeo-Christian God? I did, but not before searching other religions and returning back to the source as I understand it.

But years of being indoctrinated LDS does take its toll. Without my faith I don't know where I'd be.

I waiver a bit. I want to believe, but I'm unsure. I did go back to the Catholic church to see what I'd missed over the years. I'm ready to kick it to the curb. I don't attend mass, except now and then with my elderly dad. He's 87 and going strong. But I think once he's gone, I'll be done for good.

As far as beliefs, I prefer to let the mystery be.

Other Susan

No.

Wavering?---not in the least little bit, but I am open to evidence that could prove me wrong.

When time permitted in my life, I went on an exciting journey of learning more about religions and their histories. The Mormon "learning" I had at Sunday school had given me very, very little by way of the information I discovered. Mainly in my boring Sunday school lessons, I had been taught that all the religions but mormonism were just plain shi!tty, plus this--- that I MUST NOT check them out because THAT IS PLAYING INTO THE DEVIL'S GAME! Really? I mean I rather doubted this devil-thing from the first time I heard of him (it was always a him and not a she). I mean it always sounded to me a little too over the top, just a little too contrived and made-up by human beings to scare other human beings AND TRUSTING CHILDREN!

My journey of opening up the can of worms that Mormonism shouted would damn me brought me instead to a place where I feel very thrilled and relieved with the conclusions I have reached. I love having evidence and facts found in science be my guide much. much more than trying to twist my mind into believing in magical handshakes and dead-dunking to get into a gated heaven where, gawds-forbid, ole sleazy Joe will be allowed to be my welcoming committee. ( I think gawds could come up with someone much better for this post - just sayin")

No. I'm an atheistic-agnostic & apatheist. I came to this stance & belief before I was 9 years old. Notice, I used the word "belief", as I claim no hard facts on the existence of any sort of deities, or aliens masquerading as deities.

Being agnostic is not being "in between" either.

When I left the church at 18 and never looked back I become a hard core atheist. Now, years later I am open and no longer feel that I have all the answers.

. . . more free-thinking and more natural than theism.

I used to, but I found atheist circles (by that I mean groups who organized around atheism, not atheism itself or individual atheists) almost as limiting, though never as hateful, as Mormonism. I am a skeptical theist, but not in the Judeo-Christian vein. I am also neither a rationalist nor a humanist. Mainly, I believe that humans don't have the language or sensory capacity to describe or witness divinity. I know nothing and I'm comfortable with that...it's the only thing I can truly say for sure. The way that masculinist appeals to "science" and the Enlightenment individual operate in capitalist Western society make me a skeptical about flying the rationalist flag, too.

A bit* skeptical

Not really. I have not believed in the god of the Abrahamic religions since I read the bible. And as for the bible, I don't believe it, either. The god of the old testament is vain, vindictive, an egomaniac, and just plain downright mean, and the one featured in the new testament is not much better. Jesus may have existed, but not as portrayed in that bible. If he did, I'm thinking he was a married Jewish rabbi (all rabbis were married in those days), and he did not perform "miracles" or rise from the dead. His mother wasn't a virgin, either. Those are made-up stories and very similar to other stories about other gods and prophets from other religions, even earlier than Judaism and Christianity. I am certainly open minded enough to realize that there may be Something beyond this plane of existence, and I have had some experiences that suggest to me that this is very possible--but there is no way anyone can ever convince me it is anything similar to the god of the bible. May the Force be with you.

I suppose that depends on how you define those terms. I've reached a point of awareness at which I'm quite confident about the existence of a conscious source of the universe. I no longer waver at all about that. But I still ponder the nature of that source, and I still have a bunch of other questions about this mystery we call life.