Just like many marriages today, many people doscover that they cannot get along, and yet they stay together for their kids sake. A surprising number of such marriages fit that category. It cannot surprise anyone that a few married couples discover that they don-not desire to be with each other for all eternity. They both mutually decide that they are not eternal soul mates. If you are raised LDS you live with that person simply because you made a marriage vow as a family.

"You therefore hold the family together to raise your children and learn to love that spouse in spite of such mutual feelings. In some cases both partners may conclude that they do not want this earthly marriage for all eternity. This likely happened back then, and likely happens today. It does happen irregardless if we want to deny it happening or not. In order to have exaltation and receive the highest blessings some early Mormons would opt to seal them-self to another person after their death. A sealing to the prophet was thought to be a much safer bet to gain the celestial kingdom.

A sealing to a lesser saint might be a spiritual risk if they were to messed up spiritually? What if they didn't make the grade? You would remain unsealed when you got to the next life. Such matters are not handled like this today, but in the early church many things were quite new and experimental. Many women had husbands who didn't even believe in the church and therefore did not care about a spiritual sealing which had no affect on their present marriage anyway. They likely believed that the next life was inconsequential anyway. They gave their wives permission and likely had a good chuckle over it.

Therefore a non consequential sealing of their wife to Joseph Smith for the next life had no affect on their marriage within this life anyway. The fact that none of these cases were ever contested or ever became legal problems for the church explains a viable challenge to the bogus anti Mormon misinformation machine going on today. The fact that no children came from such sealing's to Joseph Smith verified by today's DNA testing, shows this to be exactly what it was, and nothing more. " 

They gave their wives permission and likely had a good chuckle over it.
~
Tell this to Henry Jacobs, I bet he has little to chuckle about ever since Smith and Young secretly married his wife

Are we to just discredit all the women who claim to have had sexual relations with Smith just because it makes Smith look less sleazy? Well, isnt' that convenient? Smith not having sex with married men's wives seems to be the last redeeming quality of Smith's polygamy, which is why mormons have to defend it. Smith married teens and his own foster daughters- check. Lied about polygamy- check. Had sex with his wives- check. Married other mens' wives- check. Stole their wives behind their backs (yes, even FAITHFUL LDS men)- check. Sill how mormons claim that "it was just for eternity," like it some how is ok to take a man's wife FOREVER. But, he didn't have sex with the married women! I find it hard to believe that a man like Smith would have any scruples manipulating married women to have sex with them.

I believe the DNA evidence is still ongoing- even if there is no children found, people do have sex with out procreating. There is still the problem of all the women who claim to have sex with JS, even enough to question the fatherhood of a child.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2015 12:22PM by ness.

To add to that, why were women appalled at the idea when first proposed by Joe? If it was just a ceremony to ensure their exaltation, why didn't they rejoice and jump right in? If they were just dynastic sealings, as some claim, why wasn't Joe just sealed to Heber instead of Helen? Above all, if LDS scripture shows that the ONLY reason for polygamy is procreation, why try to claim Joe wasn't sleeping with these women? No matter how it happened and what people believed, it didn't come from God.

Right, demean marriage to make Joseph Smith fit in your brain.

Thank you all, I am in a discussion again on youtube lol and I am enjoying shocking the TBM with some good research.

Here my friend posted.

"Excuse me, you need to research that one better instead of blindly believing anti Mormon garbage. There simply is no evidence of Joseph having sex with other mens wives. You meed to catch up on the latest historical research. The main historian doing this validated research was an ex mormon who was recently rebaptized after uncovering what this was really all about."

Who is he talking about? Who got rebaptized? Brigham Young had sex with married women polyandry he even had a baby with one of them Zina Young had babies with Henry Jacobs and with Brigham Young. So yes I do believe JS wanted to "bring up more rightous seed" lol.

subeamnotlogedin Wrote:
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> Brigham Young had sex with married women polyandry
> he even had a baby with one of them Zina Young had
> babies with Henry Jacobs and with Brigham Young.

I'm a descendant of that baby. They only had one.

Zina and Brigham had one daughter called Zina. Is there a source that Zina was intimate with Joseph also they didn't have a kid together.

Not that I ever heard of. My great aunt found Zina's Nauvoo journal and wrote a book.

Mary Brown Firmage Woodward was my great aunt.

"Sexual relations with Joseph Smith, if any, had been infrequent and [p.133] irregular.112 Now both sisters, Zina and Presendia, became wives on this earth to their apostle-husbands, while remaining spiritual wives of Joseph Smith. At this point, their civil marriages to Henry Jacobs and Norman Buell were considered canceled, although no formal divorce was performed.113 Furthermore, it is likely that Henry considered himself Zina’s husband or at least was confused about his status until bluntly informed to the contrary by Brigham Young after arriving in Iowa on the trek west.114 Presendia, in contrast, continued to cohabit with Norman, despite his being an apostate. Their final break came early in May 1846 when she slipped away with her younger son Oliver and joined her west­ward-bound brothers."
http://signaturebookslibrary.org/4-zinas-05/

But Todd Compton also read it and found this.

"From her diary “I mad [e] a greater sacrifise than to give my life for I never anticipated a gain to be looked upon as an honerable woman by those I dearly loved.” (pg 81)"
http://secretsofmom.com/?p=2075

No children but I believe she had sex with Smith.

The typo made me think: what if there were dolls named poly ann and andy? There would be many of them.

Wasn't Andy Hardy's girlfriend named Polly?

[Old movie reference; just dated myself]

Doxi Wrote:
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> Wasn't Andy Hardy's girlfriend named Polly?
>
>


I wonder if her last name was Andry?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2015 11:36AM by saucie.

sweet

donbagley Wrote:
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> sweet


I aim to please. ;)

"A sealing to a lesser saint might be a spiritual risk if they were to messed up spiritually? What if they didn't make the grade?"

"They likely believed that the next life was inconsequential anyway. They gave their wives permission and likely had a good chuckle over it."

This argument doesn't explain why JS went after the wives of two apostles named Orson. (He was successful with Marinda Hyde after her husband had been sent away on a mission, but not so much with Sarah Pratt.) Were members of the Q12 "lesser saints," not likely to "make the grade" or not worthy enough?

Orson Pratt didn't find it too funny. When JS slandered Sarah Pratt's morals and character after she rejected him, Orson wrote a suicide note and nearly went through with it.

And it means "many men" or "many husbands".

Something I've always wondered about Joseph Smith's polygamy/polyandry...since it was so secret and covered up and 34+ "wives", could his "marriages" have just been one night stands, not long term affairs or even frequent hookups with any one woman? Thus reducing the chances of any of them getting pregnant.

It was the women who practiced polyandry.

What you point out is correct but more specific.

Polygamy is the broad term, meaning more than one spouse (no gender declared).

Polyandry is more than one husband (gender specific).

Polygyny is more than one wife (gender specific).

Polygamy covers all bases.

'K?

"The fact that no children came from such sealing's to Joseph Smith verified by today's DNA testing, shows this to be exactly what it was, and nothing more."

Funny how Joseph Smith believed in abortion and provided his mistresses with lots of abortions, but today's Mormons absolutely hate abortion. Dr. Bennett was a handy friend for a philanderer like Joseph Smith to have.

When you have that many wives, it is also easier to use timing method of birth control without the husband having to "go without." And we certainly couldn't have that!

subeamnotlogedin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> What if they didn't make the grade? You would remain
> unsealed when you got to the next life.

They should provide a list of all those who have received a second anointing so that ALL LDS women could get themselves sealed to someone "safe".

A history of Birth Control through the ages:

http://www.medicinae.org/e08

"In the 1800s, the tire company Goodyear discovered the practice of rubber vulcanization and began mass producing condoms as part of their product line. Interestingly, an advertisement for the Goodyear condom first appeared in The New York Times in 1861 as “Dr. Power’s French Preventatives.”

"In the 1800s, the pessary reemerged as a primary birth control method, using both coco-butter and the chemical quinine as a barrier method. After the pessary was inserted into the vagina, it melted at body temperature and aided in preventing pregnancy by creating a thick, viscous fluid that provided an impenetrable barrier into the uterus."